Tok'ra Thunk/Discussion/Appreciation thread

[Skadi]

I am rather curious, how do rest of Tok'ra fans see the change they imposed on Tok'ra in later seasons? You see, when they first appeared, they were purely good guys, only a bit cautious about their existence, and in later series, they portrayed them as slightly selfish and arrogant. So, more close to the goa'uld, except the symbiotic relationships, which also were pictured as less harmonic.

Of course, I'm not expecting the symbiotic relationships to be always all perfect, as all sentient beings have their flaws and also their good sides. But still, I personally dislike what they did with Tok'ra later on, not to mention killing off Jacob and Martouf.

I hate what they have done to the Tok'ra! I don't even accept anything after 3rd season as being in the same universe! The Tok'ra are so totally different people in the later seasons, that it can't be the same universe, IMHO. I think of the Tok'ra as GOOD guys! They are NOT quasi-Goa'uld!

[Teal'auc]

Yeah, the way they pictured them later on, it made them so inconsistent and different from the first Tok'ra encounter. I seriously disliked that...

[Skadi]

Yes, not to mention that in the later seasons Jacob was the only host that even spoke - the rest of the Tok'ra had become more Goa'uld and only the symbiote spoke. Was it too difficult for the writers to write for two people in one body? did they forget about the Tok'ra being two people and different from the Goa'uld not just in name? Or did they simply think people hated the Tok'ra and wanted to show that it was right to do so and that the Tok'ra were really (almost) Goa'uld?

Grrrrrrrrrrr

[Teal'auc]

For me, true spirit of the Tok'ra is obvious from how Jolinar behaved, from how Selmak was acting and also how Lantash was like. Tok'ra are not goa'uld!

[Teal'auc]

I noticed one thing, while watching The Tok'ra, part II - when Selmak jumps into Jacob - she seems so small. I mean, the goa'uld symbiotes are basically the same species, and yet, they never seemed that small/short as Selmak was

[Hathor_girl]

For me, true spirit of the Tok'ra is obvious from how Jolinar behaved, from how Selmak was acting and also how Lantash was like. Tok'ra are not goa'uld!

Hello, Teal'auc, and welcome! I agree totally with you and Skadi - Tok'ra are NOT Goa'uld, they are like Selmak and Lantash!

[Hathor_girl]

I noticed one thing, while watching The Tok'ra, part II - when Selmak jumps into Jacob - she seems so small. I mean, the goa'uld symbiotes are basically the same species, and yet, they never seemed that small/short as Selmak was

No, that probably was because it was difficult to make on screen with a long symbiote
The Tok'ra are generally no shorter than the Goa'uld. Skadi has some pics of them - maybe she can post them again?

[Teal'auc]

Some pictures would not hurt.

[Skadi]

No, that probably was because it was difficult to make on screen with a long symbiote
The Tok'ra are generally no shorter than the Goa'uld. Skadi has some pics of them - maybe she can post them again?

I agree, that's probably why - or maybe Selmak is a dwarf The symbiotes seem to come in many skin colors, eyecolors, lengths, size/shape of fins, etc. Even the blood can be different colors! (It's red for the first seasons, then becomes blue, with the exception of Isis in the episodes "The Curse" - she had white blood!) Maybe some of it is an effect of the "code of life" they got from the intended host? Who knows. At any rate, here is some symbiote diversity:

Symbiotes infants:


Queen Egeria:


Another queen:


Amaunet:


Unknown, ally of Hathor:


Same guy as above:


Lantash - so Tok'ra are definitively not shorter than Goa'uld! Nor do they become small from having been in a host, nor do they loose their fins (all theories I've heard).


Lantash - head shot


X-ray of Ocker and host:


MRI of Kawalski's symbiote:


MRI of Apophis:


Kanan:


Selmak:


Not sure who this is - maybe the guy who ends up in Adrian Conrad:


Klorel?:


Ba'al clone:


Some young cloned guys/gals (kids):

[Teal'auc]

I wonder if the Tok'ra symbiotes 'blend' other way with the host than the Goa'uld. Because if you look at X-rays from Apophis's or the goa'uld in Kawalski and Ocker's, they do seem to be different, in the terms of how they go around the spine.

[nebulan]

I do think they blend differently. The Tok'ra blending is more complete to the point where both symbiont and host influence the other and truly become joined. Goa'uld don't do that because they don't want their host influencing them. Sha're and Kendra both had symbionts that seemed to have become a little too blended because they seemed to have had influence on their symbionts. We know that sometimes the symbiont/host relationship isn't truly equal with Tok'ra... Kanan had to not fully blend since the situation was temporary. Delek doesn't seem to let his host get much say on matters.

As far as physically in the neck... maybe it's a matter of personal preference whether they wrap around the spine or not, lol! I would argue that the symbiont might go further into the brain then Goa'uld as part of the blending. Still don't quite understand how that works

[Teal'auc]

Well, the goa'uld way seems to look more like grip, unlike the picture with Ocker's symbiote... this is why I thought there could be a physical difference in blending as well

[Skadi]

It could be personal preference and it could be that the Goa'uld keep a tighter grip, to be able to punish an unruly host or something. Maybe it is easier to give control to the host when the symbiote blend as a Tok'ra do? The Tok'ra symbiotes do after all go in expecting to share control with the host, which the Goa'uld does not.

Yeah, Amaunet and Kendra's symbiote seems to have allowed themselves to be influensed (too much) by their hosts.

I wonder if a symbiote that only expects to be there temporary connects less physically as well and that is why Kanan could more easily leave O'Neill? So there is both an aspect of them sending more tendrils in (quicker) and allowing a sharing to take place (mentally, thoughts, feelings, memories...) when they expect to stay?

I wonder what Jolinar did? If she thought Sam was offering one would think she "went in to stay". Did the large "download" of memories and feelings happen because Jolinar died in her? How it normally works and just a jumble because she didn't finish "putting everything in order"? Was it on purpose to allow Sam and her people to meet the Tok'ra? To go back and tell Martouf/Lantash what had happened? Or could Jolinar not avoid it because of the trauma? Perhaps she shared much more than what is usual, but less coherently, if that makes any sense. Martouf and Lantash seemed surprised that Sam could feel what Jolinar felt even not being a host and not having met them while being a host, but I suppose it could also be because a former host is a rare thing.

[Teal'auc]

Well, I don't think Jolinar fully blended with Sam... it's just, when Jolinar died, she could share some of her mind with Sam, unintentionally, something like 'imprinting' stuff into Sam's subconscious mind. She didn't have to intend to do that, but as Jolinar was dying, her mind could have 'slipped', if you catch my drift.

[Skadi]