Daniel Jackson Discussion and Appreciation

[Jadestar9]

LoL! Bri!

I have to go with the bandana and short hair myself.

[Scarym1]

DAX, thanks for those THUNKABLE PICS. Feel free to randomly post some more of those.

[MegTDJ]

Okay, can you remember when you did notice him? And, did you slap yourself and scream, "How could I have been so blind?"

LOL! Nope, I didn't think anything like that.

I just kinda watched the show with half an eye while working on whatever craft I was making for the first while, and the people who stood out to me were "McGuyver", Amanda Tapping (who I already loved as an actress; she was the main reason I started watching in the first place), and Teal'c (cause let's face it, he stands out, LOL!). I watched bits of eps from Learning Curve to The Devil You Know, then Foothold got me hooked for good. I thought Daniel was just a guest character in that, Sam's boyfriend or something. Next time I remember noticing him was in 100 Days, when I thought, "Oh, so there are 4 people on the team." When I saw the scene between him and Jack in Shades of Grey, I thought, "Man, that guy can ACT!! I wonder what his name is..."

That a detailed enough account?

Nice to see you here how's stuff?

Nice to see you, too!

Stuff sucks, to be honest, in every possible way, but I'm hangin' in. How's stuff with you?

When did you notice him, and what grabbed your attention?

And woo hoo! Glad to see you in here Meg

Great to see you too, Gips!

What grabbed my attention? Maternal Instinct. Right from the moment he held that baby and was talking to Oma, I was gone - a full-fledged Daniel Junkie.

[daxterdd]

Great pictures!

Yes, they're very pretty, I'm very fond of them.

Now I just wish I could remember where I got them from. :>/

[Margaret]

Science fiction shows often require a fair amount of exposition to get the story going. On Star Trek (TOS), the character most frequently in charge of explaining things was Mr. Spock, the Vulcan, portrayed as exceedingly erudite, but cold and emotionless. In the Next Generation, Data, an android was substituted for Spock. He fulfilled the same function and had the same sort of limitation.

On Stargate, Daniel or Sam fulfill this function. However, no one ever claimed that Daniel was not in touch with his emotions. And most people don't say that about Sam, either. So Stargate has created a new model of what it means to be "smart," and it doesn't include a rigid divide between the head and the heart, between logic and humanity.

[Madeleine]

What do you like about the character?

Oh crumbs. I'll get back to you on that one, I've already written the rest of the post and it's already far too long.

What did you think the first time you saw Daniel?

I can't remember much, it was Sam who stood out in the first couple of eps I watched (Serpent's Lair / Grasp). I know I liked him, and was impressed with the scene where he tells Jack to go without him. The contrast between the fear in his voice and demeanour, and his very brave and almost casual "I'll watch your back" was good.

How do you think they've handled the progression of Daniel's storyline?

It was great for six years. From the start he was an interesting mix of Ivory Tower Academic and Practical Thinker. He's left the ivory tower behind now, without losing the compulsion to learn and discover everything he can.

I liked the Sha're story arc, including how it ended. Its end freed Daniel to be more of an explorer-for-the-sake-of-exploration, which was always his natural inclination.

He seemed to have this weird idea that everybody was basically good (except the goauld) and only did bad things cos no one had told them what they were doing was bad; that disappeared over the years and was replaced by the rather cynical liar we saw in Beast of Burden. But even though his naiveity disappeared he never lost his morality and his ethics.

He became rather world-weary over the course of the fifth series. I didn't like it at the time, I thought it was well written and well acted, but it can be rather heavy going to watch a show that had once been mostly happy and upbeat become quite dark in tone. Looking back now I like it a lot better though and his decision to ascend always made sense.

Then in the sixth series he got more character-progression than any of the regulars, IMO. The few scenes he was in showed him at first fired with enthusiasm for his new life, until the realisation comes to him that he has gained power at the expense of being able to do whatever he feels he should do. The next time we see him he seems lonely, and rather subdued. He is very regretful at having to leave Teal'c, in sharp contrast to how ready he was in Meridian and even in Abyss to leave. In FC he has got into the habit of being just a watcher, and it takes the potential destruction of his former home (and a right earfull from Jack) to shake into him a sense of who he *was* and *should be*. But when that happens he really goes for it and you can see the pent-up frustration and guilt of a whole year released, as he agrees to take action.

There wasn't much character development in s7. There was Fallen, which was great, and scraps in Homecoming and Orpheus which were nice but insubstantial.


What do you think Daniel did when he was ascended?

Explored. Looked at strange and wonderful people and places across the universe. Loved it. Did it some more. Kept an eye on his friends. Helped Jack escape Baal, and tried to tell himself he was okay with the ascended 'rules'.

Explored some more. *Saw* a lot of incredible things but couldn't *experience* them because of the restrictions he found around his powers. Began to feel wistful for the days when he could be a part of it and not just an observer. Began to miss human contact, found himself rather lonely. Helped Teal'c survive as Junior gave up the proverbial. Ended up... not exactly jaded, but certainly a bit disenchanted with the whole Glowy Octopus lark. Discovered Abydos was in danger...

Boonie or bandana?

Boonie for early seasons, Bandanna later on. His hair is best in early s1 and in s6. The eyebrows are best when *not* accentuated with make-up

Do you have a favourite Daniel episode?

Too many to mention. Okay, that wasn't true, I'll mention First Ones for the way it lets Daniel just be completely himself, and in his element despite being someone's prospective lunch. And Crystal Skull, cos it's Classic Stargate. Ditto Torment of Tantalus. And I have to include Those Scenes from Abyss and from Changeling cos... wow.

[MagnoliaAnaglypta]

In a lot of ways Daniel is the perfect man - mainly because he's fictional! But also because he puts a 100 percent into everything, is loyal, compassionate, caring, curious, intelligent, knowledgeable, and not emotionally detached. And on a more shallow level, cor, he ain't half gorgeous! Those biceps, those thighs, that curve of the neck from just below the ear lobe...

Before I read Madeleine's post on page 3 (which was spot on in so many ways...) I thought this was more or less the perfect summation of why Daniel is so compelling a character to me. I'm not completely sure about the biceps, however; to me, the post-descension Daniel has become too much like the other males on the series, too stereotypically 'male', slightly more 'jockish' if you can see what I mean. Yes, he is beautiful to look at (although I think his arms are just way too pumped up now, and the curve of the neck you were talking about... it is also now not as attractive to me as it used to be as a result of all the working out...) but there are tons of guys out in actor-land that are beautiful and sexy, and none of that is what made me love Daniel as a character.

The Daniel I loved in the early seasons was creatively, laterally intelligent. He was completely non-judgemental (except for his unfortunate mental block about the Goa'uld), he was, as MS has said, a believer in the best of human nature (and not just human nature). He may have started out with the main focus to rescue his wife, but it quickly became far more than that; of all of the team, he was the one who loved exploration for exploration's sake. Ascension was the perfect and most appropriate possible culmination of his character arc and although it was painful, intensely painful, to watch him go at the end of the fifth season, I did so with a feeling that this was *exactly* how the character should have ended - stepping into the unknown, going where the others couldn't follow, because in a way, that was what he had always done, thought outside the box. He was ahead of his time, a person whose attitudes and philosophies would have fit perfectly into the more enlightened age of the Star Trek universe which I grew up loving. That is, until the later shows changed THAT beyond all recognition and started to bring in this awful militarism and right wing attitudes that seems to characterise so much of the entertainment industry's output these days.

You'll notice I've said 'was' quite a lot. Because herein lies the rub. Daniel hasn't been the same since he came back. I don't (and I appreciate I may get screamed at for heresy here...) even think he's that good looking anymore. MS is waaaay better looking in real life, wheras three years ago it was totally the other way around. In the third and fourth seasons, Daniel was *gorgeous* - and now he's a bit, well, crumpled. I don't know quite what they're doing with him - I've noticed they've used some horribly unflattering angles to shoot him on occasion - I mean, could they have used LESS flattering lighting in Chimera???

Away from the shallow considerations of how he looks, my present feelings about Daniel as a character are inextricably wrapped up with my frustrations about how he's been treated in the seventh season and how his character hasn't been developed. At all. In any way. Maybe he's assisted negotiating a few agreements, but overall he's scored more misses than hits in that area. The original set up that he came back able to read ancient fluently hasn't been used ONCE, and in fact has been completely undermined by the end of the season by the good Colonel's ancient download into his brain, which completely cuts through any notion that Daniel himself might have had a 'special relationship' with the ancients. Now the good Colonel gets both the ancients and the asguard, and Daniel is left with nothing. I don't have words to describe how much I hate that.

The ascended storyline has been conveniently and completely swept under the rug. After a year, we still don't know if he came back voluntarily or under duress. After a year, he still doesn't know this, and one would think this was something his character might find a bit traumatic to deal with, but has it even been mentioned? No.

I find it very difficult to put into words what it is about the development (if you can call it that) in Daniel's character over the last couple of years that makes me uneasy, but I think it has to do with the whole way that the ascended arc (not just that part of it that concerned Daniel) has been treated and developed. From powerful, mysterious and reasonably benevolent creatures beyond human understanding, they've become petulant, petty beurocrats who aren't any more spiritually enlightened than the next alien - they just have some nifty little 'ascension' technique that they can use on anyone they feel like allowing to join their club. The whole idea of the ascended beings has been degenerated down to a human level, something we can understand and deal with and even feel morally superior to. This seems to be so creatively bankrupt that again, I can't find the words to express my - distress - at how badly this particular concept has been mangled. And like it or not, Daniel is so intertwined with them now because of his history with them, that it affects my perception of his character. I really really wish it didn't, and I really hope that things change in the 8th season so that I can go back to seeing in him all the things I saw and loved in the early seasons. They're still there, I'm sure of that. I just haven't seen that much evidence of them over the last year.

And my favourite Daniel episode? Still probably Torment of Tantalus, after all these years, chased vigorously by Forever in a Day, Maternal Instinct, Crystal Skull, Fire and Water, there but for the Grace of God, and The First Ones.

[GateGipsy]

Hey U, good to see you in here

Wow that was a well written and excellent essay. I think I'll need to read it a few times, it was extremely thought provoking. Ditto Madeleine as well.

Yes, you really do touch on some good points about Ascension. It did rob Daniel's storyline of some of its gravity. Season 5 still really works for me, for the reasons that both you and Madeleine have pointed out. By the time we got to Summitt, I could sincerely believe that Daniel had been so affected by his experiences that he truly would do something like that. Ascending seemed almost like a gift - a way of Daniel saving his 'soul' before it was far too late.

The Ancients live on a plane of existance outside of our own and way beyond our comprehension, therefore the Ancients themselves should remain way beyond our comprehension. Even trying a little bit to explain them in our terms makes them less than the evolved beings that they are. And the wholesale ascending of Abydos was not a derserving ending for the Abydonian story arc.

On a more shallow note - I've been drooling over Daniel's biceps since the early seasons! I hadn't actually noticed any really big changes in that respect in Season 7, just that they've finally let him wear clothes that fit. I hadn't noticed him being more 'crumpled' but I'll keep an eye out for that when I rewatch episodes. Although since I decided not to tape this season - argh talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face! That's a descion I'm really regretting, won't do that again.

[Dani347]

Okay, confession. I don't like the muscles. But, other than that, I still think he's adorable

At the beginning of the season, I did think that MS hadn't gotten into the swing of being Daniel again. But, I do think he was very Daniel-like in Enemy Mine (probably why I love it so much), Birthright, and Heroes2. (Too bad so much of the episode was tainted). Except for him not seeking Jack out, which seemed highly out of character to me. I mean, we saw him grieving for Janet, so I wouldn't have doubted how he felt about that, but I also think that he would go to see if Jack was okay. The wanting to be isolated thing kind of broke down for me when he went to see the soldier in the infirmary. If they wanted to show that he couldn't deal with anyone, than that scene kind of failed for me. I also thought him rushing towards the Ancient's device in LC1 was not only Daniel-like, but MS played it in a very Daniel-like way, if that makes any sense.

And like it or not, Daniel is so intertwined with them now because of his history with them, that it affects my perception of his character.

Maybe it's because when I started watching, the 6th season was closing, I knew MS was coming back, and I hadn't seen Meridian yet, that I really don't associate Daniel with the Ascended storyline. Not to the effect that the problems with that as a whole make me see the character differently. I wish we could have seen him dealing with his memory loss, I still wish we could see his reaction to Abydos' destruction. And, even if the Ancients are petulant and petty, I don't see Daniel being that way, so their behavior doesn't mke me see him any differently.

The ascended storyline has been conveniently and completely swept under the rug. After a year, we still don't know if he came back voluntarily or under duress. After a year, he still doesn't know this, and one would think this was something his character might find a bit traumatic to deal with, but has it even been mentioned? No.

This I completely agree with. Something the writers really flubbed on.

The original set up that he came back able to read ancient fluently hasn't been used ONCE, and in fact has been completely undermined by the end of the season by the good Colonel's ancient download into his brain, which completely cuts through any notion that Daniel himself might have had a 'special relationship' with the ancients. Now the good Colonel gets both the ancients and the asguard, and Daniel is left with nothing.

Also agree with this.

[epiphany]

I actually have quite liked Daniel in season 7, I think Michael Shanks has done a wonderful job with what he's been given. Unfortunately he hasn't been given very much at all. The writers almost totally flubbed the character development because quite frankly, they didn't show it. They rushed over the affects of his descension so fast that it was like "blink and you missed it".

They gave the Ancients storyline to Jack. They didn't allow Daniel to play a pivotol role in any important arcs or effect any major plots. They put lines into Sam's mouth that should have been Daniel's(2 examples that immediately come to mind are Revisions and some of the Heroes interviews). Actually if anyone remembers Daniel was also the one who was so insistent they try to contact the Asguard starting in Season 1, it is why they went to Cimmeria in the first place. So they took the Asguard and gave it to Jack, they took the Ancients and gave it to Jack. They didn't allow Daniel's descension to be anything but a reset button or to incorporate it into the story or the character's development. The characters develop in their relationships with each other so it isn't just Daniel's development that was affected by this lack of attention but the other characters as well.

They've done this time and again, going back to early seasons, taken plots or even just scenes that by all rights Daniel ought to at least play a large role and transfer them off to Jack or sometimes Sam. Look at Window of Opportunity. The guy they met who messed with the time machine--he did it because he lost his wife. Now they have a guy who lost his wife on the team--who do they have give him the big speech at the end? Jack, who did lose his son but the point is the direct correllation was between this guy and Daniel--both of whom had lost their wives. If they wanted it to be Jack why not correlate it directly to Jack. They gave Daniel virtually no relationship with Cassie even though he did seem quite interested in her in Singularity. Yet what was Cassie? An orphan, who had lost her parents, everything she knew and taken in by strangers? What was Daniel? An orphan who has lost his parents and was put into foster care? It happened again in The Light with that kid, Loren or whatever his name was.

So it isn't that there isn't anything for Daniel to contribute, it's that they won't let him contribute. And of course one of the biggest failures, IMO, is the way they've downplayed Daniel's genius and vision. Those were the reasons Catherine brought him on board in the first place, it's why he is there--his genius and vision. But it's like are trying to totally ignore that aspect of his character. The writers don't even seem willing to show him as a competent translator, never mind one of the most gifted linguists on the planet, which is exactly what he is supposed to be. Instead they stick on these negotiations to keep him out of the way and they don't even allow him to be successful at that.

But in terms of the way the character feels, I thought he "felt" very right this season. I thought Season 7 Daniel was very sweet but strong, kindhearted but still vulnerable. In fact in some ways he seemed more vulnerable to me, because he kind of seemed to have lost some of that weariness he'd had in say Season 5 which made him seem a bit harder then. He reminded me a little of Daniel in parts of Season 3. Unfortunately the writers don't follow up. So I think Michael is acting the part right, it's just the writers aren't showing the developments to put alot of meaning and context to it. It all happened "off screen", in their favorite mantra.

I mean, could they have used LESS flattering lighting in Chimera???

Where? I thought he looked absolutely GORGEOUS in Chimera. His eyes were really brought out, especially during the dream sequences. You could really see how those long eyelashes framed them, even through his glasses. That scene at the end, when he's telling Osiris, he doesn't know, it means nothing to him, he never knew--not only did I think that was a very-well acted scene but I thought he looked phenomenol.

As for the muscles, they don't bother me, though I'm not really into muscles. He's always had them(though he did seem to lose quite a bit of weight in Season 3 and Season 4). In a few weeks I believe they are showing his Outer Limits Mary 25 episode which was filmed between Seasons 1 and 2, he takes his shirt off in that-- even back then the guy had a body on him, a little less biceps than but certainly no slouch: broad shoulders and chest, muscular stomach, strong back. I always said Daniel walked like a jock. LOL! He did, I'm sorry, you can hide alot under clothes two sizes too big but not that walk and, as someone said to me, he walked like a hockey player, like he had a stick in hands and skates on his feet. After watching some hockey players, I have to agree with that statement.

Of course how can anyone forget him at the beginning of Season 5 weilding that P-90 in Enemies wearing that t-shirt?

I don't see what Daniel's muscles have to do with brain or his personality. Having muscles doesn't make one "macho"--it's an attitude, not a body type. Daniel's still a great example of a man who's anything but weak, strong in character, mind and body but also anything but macho.

[Dani347]

But in terms of the way the character feels, I thought he "felt" very right this season. I thought Season 7 Daniel was very sweet but strong, kindhearted but still vulnerable. In fact in some ways he seemed more vulnerable to me, because he kind of seemed to have lost some of that weariness he'd had in say Season 5 which made him seem a bit harder then. He reminded me a little of Daniel in parts of Season 3. Unfortunately the writers don't follow up. So I think Michael is acting the part right, it's just the writers aren't showing the developments to put alot of meaning and context to it. It all happened "off screen", in their favorite mantra.

I agree with this. The episodes I mentioned were the ones where the Danielness of him stood out more, but after he got his sea legs back, I think MS has played Daniel very well.




As for the muscles, they don't bother me, though I'm not really into muscles. He's always had them(though he did seem to lose quite a bit of weight in Season 3 and Season 4). In a few weeks I believe they are showing his Outer Limits Mary 25 episode which was filmed between Seasons 1 and 2, he takes his shirt off in that-- even back then the guy had a body on him, a little less biceps than but certainly no slouch: broad shoulders and chest, muscular stomach, strong back. I always said Daniel walked like a jock. LOL! He did, I'm sorry, you can hide alot under clothes two sizes too big but not that walk and, as someone said to me, he walked like a hockey player, like he had a stick in hands and skates on his feet. After watching some hockey players, I have to agree with that statement.

Of course how can anyone forget him at the beginning of Season 5 weilding that P-90 in Enemies wearing that t-shirt?

I don't see what Daniel's muscles have to do with brain or his personality. Having muscles doesn't make one "macho"--it's an attitude, not a body type. Daniel's still a great example of a man who's anything but weak, strong in character, mind and body but also anything but macho.[/QUOTE]

I don't think the muscles say anything about his personality. I don't see him as macho, either. I do think they're more noticable now. Or, I'm more aware, because I never noticed them before.

[epiphany]

And like it or not, Daniel is so intertwined with them now because of his history with them, that it affects my perception of his character.

I'm not sure I understand this. On the one hand you are saying that his connection with it has been ignored and swept under the rug and other other you say he's so intwined it affects how you see him? Why?

Let's say he saw them like you did(like I did for that matter) and with good reason. That is how they were set up, right down to Oma's Zen kones. Then he gets there and slowly but surely he finds out he was sold a bill of goods and it all culminates in the events of Full Circle and his descension. That is actually quite a dramatic storyline. Unfortunately it involves Daniel, which means the writers have and will continue to completely ignore it.

I do agree they really screwed up the whole Ascended storyline. I believe it was mainly because it was something that would have been too hard, not for most us to understand, but for them to write. It would have taken too much thought into areas none of them seem to have a writing strength in--philosophical, spiritual, etc. I think that is true of Daniel himself--it takes cleverness, creativity and depth of thought to do him justice. Time they just aren't willing to take. It's much easier to write cliches, stereotypes, explosions and women falling in love with their bosses.

So instead they turn the Ascended beings into petty, know nothings who seem worse than us. Ultimately this is all done in a direction to make sure that Jack looks like the be all, end all of greatness. Gun in hand, action man, big weapons, making other beings act like children to be sent to their rooms without their candy if they don't do what we want them too(see the Kelownans, who suddenly softened up when Jack practiced that "tough love" on them::eyerolls:: )--and everything will work out just fine.

I liked it much better when Daniel and Jack balanced each other out.

[MagnoliaAnaglypta]

I'm not sure I understand this. On the one hand you are saying that his connection with it has been ignored and swept under the rug and other other you say he's so intwined it affects how you see him? Why?

You've basically answered the question yourself.

Daniel's ascension was originally 'sold' to us as a beautiful thing, a great spiritual acheivement, something which reflected well on him as a character.

Then, they developed the storyline in such as way as to imply that instead of being 'special' enough to attain this amazing progression to a higher being, what really happened was that he was duped by an outcast member of a petty, squabbling race which just happened to be incorporeal. He becomes a stupid dupe, dumb enough to fall for Oma's pretty words and buy into her 'cult'. then, in Jack's words, he gets kicked out of the fan club and ends back ignominiously dumped back into a mortal body with his memory completely wiped, and comes to the obvious conclusion that he did something terrible which he is now being punished for.

Yes, it could have been a strong storyline, if it had even been acknowledged beyond a couple of words in a whole season. But my point is that the original storyline could have been far, far stronger! There was so much rich material to be mined in continuing to keep the ascended as they were originally presented to us. They have robbed the entire concept of all of its power, and all of its potential for exploring humanities 'relationship' with the infinite, the things that are beyond our understanding.

And Daniel is inextricably wrapped up with this failure because now he is being presented as a failure. He has to pick himself up and start again because he made 'a bad choice' and coming back with his tail between his legs was inevitable. But at the beginning, in Maternal Instinct, and up to Meridian, it was NOT a bad choice. It was a wonderful acheivement of immense proportions. And then after that it all went horribly wrong because the writers had to inject this awful mundanity into the whole concept.

[Dani347]

Yes, it could have been a strong storyline, if it had even been acknowledged beyond a couple of words in a whole season. But my point is that the original storyline could have been far, far stronger! There was so much rich material to be mined in continuing to keep the ascended as they were originally presented to us. They have robbed the entire concept of all of its power, and all of its potential for exploring humanities 'relationship' with the infinite, the things that are beyond our understanding.

And Daniel is inextricably wrapped up with this failure because now he is being presented as a failure. He has to pick himself up and start again because he made 'a bad choice' and coming back with his tail between his legs was inevitable. But at the beginning, in Maternal Instinct, and up to Meridian, it was NOT a bad choice. It was a wonderful acheivement of immense proportions. And then after that it all went horribly wrong because the writers had to inject this awful mundanity into the whole concept.

Hope you don't mind me picking apart your post. It's all in the spirit of discussion and friendly debate Anyway, I can see how this has a negative affect on the story and on how this important aspect of Daniel has been just dropped or written badly. But, i don't see how it makes Daniel any lesser of a person because he got a bad storyline. If he had acted badly, I could see that. Making a bad choice isn't such a terrible thing, and he had no knowledge that it was a bad choice when he made it. And, afterwards, he was kicked out trying to help save his home. The mission wasn't successful, but to me, there's no failure in that, regardless of the outcome. I don't see him as a failure at all. Um, I love analogies but can never think of exact ones to go with the situation, so don't expect this to add up point by point. But, to me, he's no more of a failure than someone during the Holocaust being jailed or losing everything for trying to shelter Jews. Even if they don't succeed. They aren't failures. (Like I said, not the best analogy, so if anyone gets what I'm saying and can offer a better one, i'd be grateful.)

I do think not dealing with what happened was a bad thing. Not only do I want to see him grieve, but I also think dealing with how he felt about his decision is important. I think there was some hubris (is that the word?) in thinking that he could challenge Anubis directly. I could see him feeling like a failure. But, actually being one? For getting kicked out for trying to do good? Not to me.

I don't think he's being presented as one, either. If he had gotten kicked out because he selfishly tried to gain power or something, yeah, I could see that. Also, because they haven't dealt with it at all, I don't see him being presented as anything regarding this particular story. Simply being sent back down to earth and human form isn't failure for me. They could have played that he chose to come back when he realized the Ascended weren't all they were cracked up to be, and losing his memory was part of the process. Which wouldn't be failure. Or, they could have played it as Oma and the others just booted him out, telling him he was unworthy. Which in a way would have been a kind of failure. But, for me, unless the Ascended actually were the great and wonderful creatures they were supposed to be, there doesn't seem to be anything so horrible about not being part of that club.

Does him being brought back to earth make him appear less caring? Less compassionate? IMO, no. So, even if ascension wasn't all that it should be, if it had been, Daniel would have been worthy. And, he still is, even if ascension isn't.

[epiphany]

You've basically answered the question yourself.

Daniel's ascension was originally 'sold' to us as a beautiful thing, a great spiritual acheivement, something which reflected well on him as a character.

Then, they developed the storyline in such as way as to imply that instead of being 'special' enough to attain this amazing progression to a higher being, what really happened was that he was duped by an outcast member of a petty, squabbling race which just happened to be incorporeal. He becomes a stupid dupe, dumb enough to fall for Oma's pretty words and buy into her 'cult'. then, in Jack's words, he gets kicked out of the fan club and ends back ignominiously dumped back into a mortal body with his memory completely wiped, and comes to the obvious conclusion that he did something terrible which he is now being punished for.

Yes, it could have been a strong storyline, if it had even been acknowledged beyond a couple of words in a whole season. But my point is that the original storyline could have been far, far stronger! There was so much rich material to be mined in continuing to keep the ascended as they were originally presented to us. They have robbed the entire concept of all of its power, and all of its potential for exploring humanities 'relationship' with the infinite, the things that are beyond our understanding.

And Daniel is inextricably wrapped up with this failure because now he is being presented as a failure. He has to pick himself up and start again because he made 'a bad choice' and coming back with his tail between his legs was inevitable. But at the beginning, in Maternal Instinct, and up to Meridian, it was NOT a bad choice. It was a wonderful acheivement of immense proportions. And then after that it all went horribly wrong because the writers had to inject this awful mundanity into the whole concept.

What was saying was that I agree with you that they've totally blown the whole storyline with the Ascended and for many of the very reasons you've state but I don't think someone being misled and in a way in which they'd have absolutely no way of knowing until they were actually on the inside necessarily needs to be a negative. It became one because the writers screwed it up as usual--but it didn't need to be a negative.

In fact Daniel's actions after figuring it out could have been portrayed as a great strength of his character, the fact that he was descended could have been used as a great device to sort of show that. These are beings of immense power, whatever else they are, and they certainly outnumber him. Perhaps he wasn't supposed to retain any memories but he managed to do it, perhaps they tried to completely destroy him completely but he found a way to survive it, etc. There were all sorts of great possibilities on a truly galactic scale. In fact there were ways to make this part of a greater plan on Oma's part that Daniel was deeply involved in or perhaps he even had a part in forming it and this was part of it, even if he doesn't remember it yet, and there really could have been much more to it than pettiness, it could really have involved something on a huge astronomical scale. The point is there were all sorts of interesting things they could have done with it and not had it be negative in terms of Daniel's character. In fact one could say as it turned out, it wasn't Daniel who was the failure but the ascended. I could very easily see it as not Daniel failing at ascension but ascension failing Daniel, that Daniel was worthy of something better than ascension have created.

But instead writers dropped the ball again, it was used in the worst possible way and in fact for the most part not used at all.

And given the way the spoilers for Season 8 are shaping up, we can feel pretty certain that the ball will remain dropped.

However I do think the writers screwed it up royally when took away the spirituality and mysticism from it. They did that and they screwed it up, however even in doing that, they needn't have failed Daniel as well, it could have been written in such a way as to make it clear it was his strength that caused the problem not a weakness, but they failed that too.