Originally posted by JessM
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I have to agree with you guys.
Spoiler:
That was a real discussion of whether they believed Daniel or not. I mean, the Jack with Daniel scenes were great too, but I guess they weren't quite as effective as that one.
We had Teal'c say he believed Daniel, though I don't remember hearing Cam say much, and it *sounded* like Sam believed him, but she didn't come out and say anything to Daniel. I mean, she did defend him quite a bit, but it left me wondering whether or not Daniel himself thought she believed him.
We had Teal'c say he believed Daniel, though I don't remember hearing Cam say much, and it *sounded* like Sam believed him, but she didn't come out and say anything to Daniel. I mean, she did defend him quite a bit, but it left me wondering whether or not Daniel himself thought she believed him.
Originally posted by Pitry
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mmmm... yup. 
Shroud...
Shroud...
Spoiler:
I think that's what made the Vala and Daniel scene perhaops the strongest, for me at least, in the episode. It wasn't a question of ship - I'm not a shipper - but because that was the one scene there was a real discussion of whether they believe Daniel or not.
Again. I understand why they didn't go that way - especially in the scope of 42 minutes. It kind of begs to have a residue for Daniel, his coming to them and them not trusting in him, even if it's that 2%. I dunno if Woolsey makes another appearance in the show or not, but after the scene between these two I woudl have liked to see another. Had they gone for more, in 42-plot-packed minutes, it's bound to screw up the team dynamics and they prolly didn't want that.
But you can't help but wonder..
Again. I understand why they didn't go that way - especially in the scope of 42 minutes. It kind of begs to have a residue for Daniel, his coming to them and them not trusting in him, even if it's that 2%. I dunno if Woolsey makes another appearance in the show or not, but after the scene between these two I woudl have liked to see another. Had they gone for more, in 42-plot-packed minutes, it's bound to screw up the team dynamics and they prolly didn't want that.
But you can't help but wonder..
Originally posted by Madeleine_W
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I like the sound of that. I loved what we got, but that sounds like it had the potential to be really good.
I feel quite bad whenever I criticise the really good eps. If any PTBs are lurking (in this thread? I doubt it, but still...) please don't think I'm bashing your Shroud; it's a great episode, but like all the really great episodes it inspires flights of fancy in the viewers; and we wonder how things could have gone if more than 42 minutes was available, or if certain nuances were different.
Spoiler:
I would have liked the Team to have more, and more serious doubts. Me, I wasn't entirely sure of Daniel at times, especially when he met Adria. And yes, I know that the Team weren't rushing to follow his requests and I know they used the device and restraints... it's just that they seemed 98% convinced of his veracity and their precautions were very much 'just in case'.
I'd have liked a longer arc to give the option of them *not* believing Daniel. It was heartwarming that they all trust him so deeply and implicitly that they will believe in him even after he spends a few weeks in the posession of a powerful enemy with brainwashing tendencies and then appears as an agent of said enemy, but it might have been exciting to see them disbelieve him. I'm not sure what it would have taken for them to actually disbelieve him rather than just not fully trust him, but in three episodes I'm sure it could have been managed.
If they'd been 50:50 as to whether it was really him in there, and had worried around the briefing room table - is it him? is he posessed? is the old Daniel there underneath? is the old Daniel retrievable? OMG how terrible it would be if we've lost our Daniel for ever! what can we do for him? poor Daniel! what made him submit to evil? - we could have had a meatier arc with more substance to it.
I'd have liked a longer arc to give the option of them *not* believing Daniel. It was heartwarming that they all trust him so deeply and implicitly that they will believe in him even after he spends a few weeks in the posession of a powerful enemy with brainwashing tendencies and then appears as an agent of said enemy, but it might have been exciting to see them disbelieve him. I'm not sure what it would have taken for them to actually disbelieve him rather than just not fully trust him, but in three episodes I'm sure it could have been managed.
If they'd been 50:50 as to whether it was really him in there, and had worried around the briefing room table - is it him? is he posessed? is the old Daniel there underneath? is the old Daniel retrievable? OMG how terrible it would be if we've lost our Daniel for ever! what can we do for him? poor Daniel! what made him submit to evil? - we could have had a meatier arc with more substance to it.
I feel quite bad whenever I criticise the really good eps. If any PTBs are lurking (in this thread? I doubt it, but still...) please don't think I'm bashing your Shroud; it's a great episode, but like all the really great episodes it inspires flights of fancy in the viewers; and we wonder how things could have gone if more than 42 minutes was available, or if certain nuances were different.
I'm going to agree with all of you
Shroud spoilers
Spoiler:
I loved the episode but I wished it had been longer so they could have properly explored the issue of whether Daniel could be trusted or not. There was so much to explore - Daniel's potential seduction to the dark side by Adria playing to his own feelings of frustration about the Ancients or whether Merlin had taken over Daniel and had his own agenda not necessarily in synch with the team's and what Daniel himself would have done...there are so many ways they could have played it...but they just didn't have enough time so the question of whether they could trust him ended up as nothing more than a tease...
I agree with Madelaine that it quickly became apparent that the majority of the team DID trust him but were doing the 'just in case he isn't...' measures just in case...I actually think this was OK...I think the original three being quick to move past his appearance and trust Daniel when his plan makes sense to some degree is probably right...their opinion is clouded now to a large degree by their emotions and history together.
I did expect the newer members - Landry, Mitchell and Vala to some degree to be more sceptical and try to be the voice of caution and Mitchell looks very sceptical in the initial interrogation scenes as does Vala. I really enjoyed the Daniel/Vala scene because it was a real examination of whether they should trust him even if he was Daniel...he was asking them to risk the galaxy just on his say so...and even if it was him that was still a big ask...that whole new versus old dynamic could have been played up more though...
The Jack/Daniel scenes were played more for the banter than any meaningful discussion of trust. The initial scene between them is probably the best for this when Daniel brings up Ba'al and Jack reminds him that just because he knows stuff about them and their relationship doesn't mean he's actually Daniel. Teal'c/Daniel is really more a standard interrogation scene with Teal'c pressing Daniel on the weak points of his story and finding reasonable responses in reply...plus presumably doing the whole Jaffa I-can-see-to-the-truth-of-your-soul thing which is why I think Jack sends him in - although this isn't played up in the scene as much as I thought it would be. Sam, although leading the initial interrogations, only really questions his intent at the end when he is pretending to Adria he did it for her...although there really isn't another opportunity for her to demonstrate her disbelief/mistrust.
I also think the issue of whether to trust him or not is quickly overshadowed by the issue of whether to kill him or not presented by Woolsey in the middle of the episode which while likely to happen means the team is automatically put in the corner of trusting Daniel because they don't like Woolsey or his suggestion to kill Daniel.
I have to admit my only moment of doubt was when Daniel had Woolsey hostage but as he beams Jack up any doubt I had went away...and I didn't have any during the whole Adria scene at the end.
It's a shame - it's still a great episode - it just needed more time for the story to be told.
but thanks for asking 
Those things are the worst. I hope you start feeling better soon! I haven't been getting much sleep myself - sleeplessness is one of my PMS/PMT symptoms. Can drive me insane when I get it. Thinking of taking off from work early so I can go home and take a nap or something. 
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