Daniel Jackson Discussion and Appreciation

[Dani347]

Spoiler:

I don't think that it's contrived that Daniel would feel guilty. When something like this happens -Vala being burned, exposing Earth to the Ori- I think he wouldn't not feel guilty because he was following orders. After all, he was just as eager as if he hadn't, and he did his best to persuade Landry to let him use the device. I'd think he would feel that following orders doesn't make a difference in feeling guilty enough to stay and help Earth against the new enemy.

Plus, even without guilt, I think the idea that there's a new enemy would be enough to tie Daniel here. I can't see him abandoning Earth when a new enemy has just discovered them

[Tucker Case]

Spoiler:

I don't think that it's contrived that Daniel would feel guilty. When something like this happens -Vala being burned, exposing Earth to the Ori- I think he wouldn't not feel guilty because he was following orders.

I suppose the word I was looking for wasn't

Spoiler:

"guilt" but "responsibility."

I guess I was looking for that sense of responsibility to really hook him into the story, to really make it feel like his battle.

I'm probably splitting hairs. It's not like it was his "fault" that he opened the Stargate the first time he did the Pandora's box thing. And, as I said, in some ways I'm just as happy things are the way they are.

Spoiler:

After all, he was just as eager as if he hadn't, and he did his best to persuade Landry to let him use the device.

Spoiler:

Yes, but Landry didn't allow it on his word alone and, as far as I can tell, the only reason Cameron didn't use the other stone was because Vala trumped him with the "What if he gets whisked away?" argument.

Not that this will stop Daniel from feeling perfectly awful about it all, of course. I'm just hoping they don't "take advantage," if you will, of Daniel's nature in order to create more of a hook than the circumstances truly dictate. That's the only contrivance I'm worried about.

It's a small thing, really.

Spoiler:

Plus, even without guilt, I think the idea that there's a new enemy would be enough to tie Daniel here. I can't see him abandoning Earth when a new enemy has just discovered them

True enough. I'm just thinking back to the last eight years, where Daniel not only opened the big round Pandora's box, thus re-introducing Earth to a powerful enemy - getting their attention by killing Ra, on a mission he finessed his way onto - but also had the missing wife and the sense of personal responsibility for not being able to leave well enough alone and unburying the gate on Abydos just to satisfy his own curiosity.

This time around, he has the

Spoiler:

Pandora's box and the resulting enemy, but other than that was more or less forced into a treasure hunt as a "consolation prize" for missing the Daedalus, the decision to use the device was a group one, Vala volunteered to go and overrode Mitchell on that score, using the same "force" that dragged Daniel into this in the first place - if she hadn't slapped the bracelet on him, he wouldn't even have been there...er, hang on...

What am I worried about again? It's not as though I don't have a soft spot for heroes who get swept away by events before they even realise what's happening to them. And Daniel's "Ancient history" might yet tie him to the story in ways he couldn't begin to imagine. That "lost year" of his still has its secrets. He might well have been destined for all of this.

I'm sure I can cope.

Tucker

[Dani347]

Spoiler:

True enough. I'm just thinking back to the last eight years, where Daniel not only opened the big round Pandora's box, thus re-introducing Earth to a powerful enemy - getting their attention by killing Ra, on a mission he finessed his way onto - but also had the missing wife and the sense of personal responsibility for not being able to leave well enough alone and unburying the gate on Abydos just to satisfy his own curiosity.

This time around, he has the Pandora's box and the resulting enemy, but other than that was more or less forced into a treasure hunt as a "consolation prize" for missing the Daedalus, the decision to use the device was a group one, Vala volunteered to go and overrode Mitchell on that score, using the same "force" that dragged Daniel into this in the first place - if she hadn't slapped the bracelet on him, he wouldn't even have been there...er, hang on...

Spoiler:

Well, it seems that he has personally taken this on himself. As for having the quest to free Sha're being a catalyst, I think that was needed, because he wasn't connected to Earth back then. Now, it's also a sense of responsibility that he didn't leave well enough alone -I don't think he cares how many other people signed off on it, he doesn't think that mitigates his responsibility. I also don't think he feels that it's all his fault. He did say the Ori know Earth is out there because of "us." I wonder if he meant us as in him and Vala or us as in him and everyone else involved, Landry, Mitchell, Teal'c and them. Um, I got sidetracked there. Now he feels a connection with Earth and with his friends that I think that's a strong enough thing to make it more than just responsibility. I think the ties with his teammates are strong enough that the idea of them being in danger is something he feels beyond just "I broke it, I need to fix it." I'm not sure if I'm saying it right.

[Tucker Case]

Spoiler:

Well, it seems that he has personally taken this on himself...I also don't think he feels that it's all his fault. He did say the Ori know Earth is out there because of "us." I wonder if he meant us as in him and Vala or us as in him and everyone else involved, Landry, Mitchell, Teal'c and them. Um, I got sidetracked there. Now he feels a connection with Earth and with his friends that I think that's a strong enough thing to make it more than just responsibility. I think the ties with his teammates are strong enough that the idea of them being in danger is something he feels beyond just "I broke it, I need to fix it." I'm not sure if I'm saying it right.

You're saying it just fine. I think. Presuming I know what you meant to say...which, obviously, I can't.

What you said makes sense: How's that?

What I wanted most from this – in terms of motivation – was for Daniel to come out of the episode(s) more determined to stay here than go to Atlantis, for it to make sense that his priorities have changed and he doesn't have his eye on the Pegasus Galaxy. I think Michael is right: It never did make a whole lot of sense for Daniel not to have gone to Atlantis last year, to have stayed on Earth simply because Jack “needed” him.

Which is not to say that ‘Atlantis,’ as a show, needed him, or that I would have wanted him anywhere but on ‘SG-1’ (particularly by the time ‘Reckoning’ came around), only that from a purely Daniel-centric point of view, Atlantis is where he should have been, where that character should have been heading. If they were going to keep him on ‘SG-1,’ they needed to do something to ground him to this story – and, Daniel being Daniel, that means, to me, that his heart has to be here.

And, having seen ‘Origin’ now, I must say that it’s enough, for me,

Spoiler:

that he’s scared, that everything he’s seen and experienced was frightening enough that he cannot run away from it, that he won’t. Daniel’s never admitted to being afraid of anything; that he has now speaks volumes about how serious the threat is, and where his heart tells him he needs to be.

The whole responsibility/guilt thing ended up even more watered down than I expected, with the first Prior coming through to this galaxy before Daniel and Vala had talked to anyone, and the Doci already knowing - somehow - who Daniel was and where he was from. Just triggering the device and being there seems to have done the trick.

Still, I liked the exchange between Daniel and Vala very much, the one where he claims the Ori have set their sights on Earth (and environs) “because of us” and she pipes up with, “It’s not our fault,” and the writing left it at that. If you want, you can look at Daniel and Vala as a pair of extremes – he an extremely selfless person, she an extremely self-serving one – and say they each took the position you would expect from them, but the “truth” of it all probably falls somewhere down the middle, and he probably wasn’t really reaching for the hairshirt any more than she was really trying to absolve herself of any responsibility. She’s right about curiosity, he’s right about what it got them, but the story doesn’t choose between them or tell me what to think and I respect that immensely.

On a different, generally happier note - and I'm too lazy to be completely original so I'm going to baldly plagiarise a post I made elsewhere - I need to grin like an idiot some more over Mitchell.

I went stupidly, shamelessly sweet on him in the scene

Spoiler:

in the infirmary, where Landry was filling him on this guy coming to such-and-such a planet working miracles and spreading the word, and Mitchell would not take his eyes off Daniel and Vala. Every once in a while he'd throw a glance Landry's way - when it seemed the polite thing to do - but his gaze was constantly drawn back to the two still figures in the beds, and he was clearly in no hurry to leave them. Landry gave him his orders, but he paused for just a second or two more of watching before acknowledging those orders and leaving.

Oh, and his little "Amen" after Landry told Daniel and Vala he was glad they were okay was pretty sweet, too.

Love. Him.

That is the kind of team leader I want looking out for Daniel.

I am not at all looking forward to seeing Vala leave but, the more I see of Mitchell in action, the less I'm worried about it. He may not have her spark and sizzle, but he's got oodles of charm and a big ol' heart

More than anything last night, I was almost startled by the warmth of the SGC scenes,

Spoiler:

from Landry ordering that blasted device taken out of service if Daniel and Vala were ever in trouble again, to Daniel and Vala looking for each other the second they re-awakened in their own bodies, to Teal'c grasping Mitchell's arm in the gateroom and bowing, to the delight on Landry's face when he announced that Daniel and Vala were okay (and the way he dragged that out reminded me of Hammond with his, "There's someone here who wants to see you"), to Teal'c being right there when Vala removed the bracelets to the de-briefing that felt more like a heart-to-heart and a sharing of ideas, from one man's grandma to another.

The new characters may have out-numbered the old, but it felt like a family reunion.

Love. Them.

Tucker

[Dani347]

On a different, generally happier note - and I'm too lazy to be completely original so I'm going to baldly plagiarise a post I made elsewhere - I need to grin like an idiot some more over Mitchell.

Yes. The friendship that seems to be developing between Daniel and Mitchell (although I don't think we'll really see even its potential in its full form until Vala leaves -not that I'm complaining about Vala- just that the brunt of Daniel's interactions are with her for now) is great. It's something totally different from the friendships Daniel has with his other team members. It's not a jacck/daniel clone, it's not a second rate Jack/Daniel (I don't mean slash, it's just quicker writing it that way). It's not even an anti Jack/Daniel. It's all and only fully itself. It's developing into exactly a relationship between Daniel and Mitchell that I'm interested in seeing, no comparisions to any others necessary.

[LMichelle]

Spoiler:

Daniel's the only man that can make words like fear mongering and forced servitude sound so hot. I loved how Daniel stood up to the Ori. Yay! Classic Daniel!

[Katerine]

About an hour ago, I read a post in another thread that described Daniel as "self-centered." It's been bugging me ever since.

Daniel. Self-centered. The person who threw away his professional reputation for the sake of his integrity.

Daniel. Self-centered. The person who threw himself in front of a weapon for the sake of a total stranger, who until that point had been treating him like... well, you know.

Daniel. Self-centered. The person who left his home, his happiness, and insisted on a job with a great deal of personal danger to find the woman he loved.

Daniel. Self-centered. The person who's been enduring ridicule in his old academic circles for years, but has never shown signs of being tempted to throw the fact that he was right all along in their faces. It isn't just that he wants to but can't - he doesn't show any signs of wanting to.

Daniel. Self-centered. The person who's consistently been the one to argue with his friends for the sake of doing what's right.

Daniel. Self-centered. The person who's always been there for his friends, whenever they need somebody to confide in, and has never asked for any attention in return.

Daniel. Self-centered. The person who always hurts for his friends whenever they are hurt or presumed killed, usually quietly, without drawing any attention to himself at all.

Daniel. Self-centered. The person who tried to save Reese, Kira, and Shyla, both before and after they'd hurt him. The person who grieved for Reese, even given that she'd attacked him. The person who stepped in front of Jack's gun to save Kira, when Kira was about to kill them both.

Daniel. Self-centered. The person who ranted about the film crew in Heroes, lashed out at the director after his friend was killed, but still listened to him, reconsidered his position, and freely admitted that he'd been wrong. While grieving. It takes an extraordinarily big person to be able to do that.

Daniel. Self-centered. The person who told Jack that "we both know that my life is no more important than anybody else's" - and meant it. When he was about to die of radiation poisoning, no less.

Daniel. Self-centered. The person who has consistently shown signs of genuinely believing that everybody else is more important than he is.

Sorry. This is just... really bothering me. I've been told that Daniel was boring, uninteresting... I can even see the point in "obnoxious" - he does tend to be that in times of stress. But self-centered? That's like... describing Sam as "lazy." It just doesn't fit. If we were talking about a real person, I'd even describe it as libelous.

[Dani347]

Haven't read the post, so I don't know the context. But, Daniel is very single minded. He has a clear idea of what's right, and he won't back down, even when other people might be annoyed. He's not afraid to stand alone. That might appear self centered, since when it comes to his convictions, he doesn't bend. I think the fact that he does argue with people over doing what's right also is a reason why some people may see him as self centered. That he puts his convictions over them, or that he's convinced he's right, even when the world says he's wrong.

[Matt G]

Hey Daniel fans!

I need for help.

I'm working on a website with a large Stargate section. And I've come up with a cool idea for it. When each character page is loaded, an audiofile of that character's catchphrase will play.

Jack: "For cryin' out loud"

Teal'c "Indeed"

Hammond: "SG1, you have a go"

In this vein, could you please come up with a phrase that either is a catchphrase for Daniel or a line of his that sums him up. NOT an episode specific line like "I've just been electrocuted..." which though cool, is fairly atypical Daniel.

Good luck

[Dani347]

"We're peaceful explorers"?

Some phrase having to do with communicating?

[Katerine]

I'm working on a website with a large Stargate section. And I've come up with a cool idea for it. When each character page is loaded, an audiofile of that character's catchphrase will play.

Jack: "For cryin' out loud"

Teal'c "Indeed"

Hammond: "SG1, you have a go"

In this vein, could you please come up with a phrase that either is a catchphrase for Daniel or a line of his that sums him up. NOT an episode specific line like "I've just been electrocuted..." which though cool, is fairly atypical Daniel.

Wow. This isn't easy

With the possible exception of "wow," (which is too generic), I don't think Daniel has anything that could be called a "catchphrase," any more than Sam does. The closest I can think of is the many variations of "Jack..."

Most of the lines that signify Daniel that I can think of are actually spoken by other people, mostly in "Meridian" and "Fallen." But I assume you want lines that are actually spoken by Daniel, not just about him.

Maybe something from "The Torment of Tantalus"? Pick a line, any line. Or "Is it the right thing to do?" from "The Other Side." (I think there's another variation of that at the beginning of "Absolute Power," too, in the briefing room scene). Or "My life is no more important than anybody else's" from "Meridian" (feels like I just typed that somewhere else ), which I feel sums up his character nicely. Might also check out "Shades of Grey..." I think there are a couple of good representative lines in there, though I couldn't tell you exactly what they were (it's been a while).

Sorry I couldn't be more specific. Hope that helped

ETA: Ooh, good one, Dani! I'd completely forgotten about that one.

[Tucker Case]

Daniel is very single minded. He has a clear idea of what's right, and he won't back down, even when other people might be annoyed. He's not afraid to stand alone. That might appear self centered, since when it comes to his convictions, he doesn't bend.

I'm inclined to agree.

Don't know the context myself, and frankly don't care to, but if we're not dipping into the realm of the wholly irrational. or a bad case of projection (which can happen when one fixates on something or someone), then it could be a semantic wobble. Or a perspective thing.

Daniel is a lot of things, and not all of them warm and cuddly, but "self-centered" is not one of them.

If they'd even said "self-righteous," I'd still say they missed the mark, but I'd at least know where they were coming from. Daniel is a very just and principled man, he stands up for his convictions and won't yield his ideals. Connote that negatively and you get "self-righteous."

Which he isn't. Daniel doesn't argue for the sake of "being right" or to bolster his image as a "righteous" man, he isn't looking for validation or recognition (bloody good thing to as he, of all the members of SG-1, has received the least recognition for his contributions to saving the world, the galaxy...don't even get me started on Kelowna); Daniel argues for the sake of what doing what is right, often at considerable risk or cost to himself.

Still, it's been taken for self-righteousness before, and likely will be again. One man's holy man is another's holier-than-thou man.

Er...not that I think Daniel is holy or anything.

I'll just stop talking now. I've got a Coldplay ticket in my pocket and the opening act hits the stage in twenty minutes. I'd say it's time to head out the door.

Tucker

[Matt G]

Wow. This isn't easy

With the possible exception of "wow," (which is too generic), I don't think Daniel has anything that could be called a "catchphrase," any more than Sam does. The closest I can think of is the many variations of "Jack..."

Most of the lines that signify Daniel that I can think of are actually spoken by other people, mostly in "Meridian" and "Fallen." But I assume you want lines that are actually spoken by Daniel, not just about him.

Maybe something from "The Torment of Tantalus"? Pick a line, any line. Or "Is it the right thing to do?" from "The Other Side." (I think there's another variation of that at the beginning of "Absolute Power," too, in the briefing room scene). Or "My life is no more important than anybody else's" from "Meridian" (feels like I just typed that somewhere else ), which I feel sums up his character nicely. Might also check out "Shades of Grey..." I think there are a couple of good representative lines in there, though I couldn't tell you exactly what they were (it's been a while).

Sorry I couldn't be more specific. Hope that helped

ETA: Ooh, good one, Dani! I'd completely forgotten about that one.

"Is it the right thing to do?" sounds on the money.

[jerin]

"Is it the right thing to do?" sounds on the money.

I agree with this phrase.

[Tucker Case]

In this vein, could you please come up with a phrase that either is a catchphrase for Daniel or a line of his that sums him up.

First thing that pops into my head is, "I have no idea."

Said in that way.

It goes all the way back to the film, and the inflection Michael uses is the one "Spader-ism" (or one of the few) he's held onto after all this time.

I don't know if having no idea sums Daniel up, exactly, but the quiet wonder with which he faces the things he has no idea about does, I think.

Either that or, yeah, some variation on the "peaceful explorer" greeting.

Tucker