Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[hedwig]

it also makes me wonder IF the ptb thought it was demeaning to sam's character for her to be dismissed like that? to me, that scene felt more like 'out with the old, in with the new', i setting up woolsey being the new leader.

but i've seen the ptb write stuff that later makes them 'whaaat?' when we fans complain. (pete's antics in 'chimera' immediately comes to mind)

I feel that by this time they were so stuck on themselves and their ideas for what made a good episode that it never crossed their minds to think it was totally disrespectful to Sam. But then they also did that to her in Enemey at the Gate, with Sheppard constantly contradicting her ideas and overriding her decisions (IMO). All he wound up doing, though (also IMO), was make himself look like a bit of a jerk.

[suse]

There could have been a way to do it properly if they really cared to do it. Shoddy treatment of the character by tptb imho.

And this is different from S9/S10 and most of SGA S4 *how*?

[hedwig]

And this is different from S9/S10 and most of SGA S4 *how*?

I agree. In many ways, she was used as wallpaper in SGA, S4, just as much as she was in SG19&10, if not more so.

[majorsal]

I agree. In many ways, she was used as wallpaper in SGA, S4, just as much as she was in SG19&10, if not more so.

i was SO excited to see sam on atlantis , but i'd never watched the series before, so i was excited about watching a new stargate too.

but the emphasis was going to stay on sheppard and mckay, so *sam* wasn't ever really going to be the deal i wanted her to be. :/

[Skydiver]

I don't think the writers at that point in time, were very good at pulling their minds out of what they thought was good to even look at things with any other POV. they literally saw events one way and didn't stop to look at them any other way.

It's like how they were shocked when fans brought up gender bias in regards to Sam and Cameron. They literally did not see it. Largely because they were men and have never faced being treated as less due to the lack of a Y chromosome. they have no experience, don't seem to have the ability to look at things with any other point of view and don't seem to worry too much about it.

I am sure that Sam's termination, or how shep treated her was likely no more than filming expediency in one part and 'normal' for the male lead to play the hero and flout authority.

[Fresh_Horse]

^yeah, one of the most dangerous jobs in Iraq/Afghanistan is a driver in a convoy and guess who often does that? Women soldiers. But they aren't counted as "in combat." I've talked to a few about that a bit.

I think we need to send some of our politicians there and let them re-evaluate the "in combat" status.
I heard this story of a politician who was on a trip in Afghanistan. He asked the driver to stop so he could pee. The driver stopped, the politician looked around and asked if the driver couldn't stop like near a bush so he could go behind the bush to pee.
The soldiers then explained to him that they were supposed to make sure he didn't get hurt but if he stepped off the road and behind a bush he should know that the area was full of landmines.
If he wanted to pee, he had to do it right next to the car.
Only then did the politician seem to realize where he was, in the middle of a war.

My preteen nephews love the old 1950s/60s bad scifi (giant spiders etc). They like to laugh at the cheesy effects etc. but they also often say "why does the woman scientist always have to change her clothes every two minutes? Why does she suddenly turn stupid when the monsters show up?"

Wait, the kids notice that the woman scientist changes her clothes? lol, they'll lose that when they get older.

They are going to like Ellen Ripley when they are old enough to watch Alien!

[Chelle DB]

There is a world of difference between 'captain carter who was afraid she'd get kicked off the program so she had a chip the size of cheyenne mountain on her shoulder' and 'colonel carter, who's blown up a sun, saved the world a dozen times, has a close friend(or more, your pov) in homeworld security, has commendations a plenty and after 10+ years, knows she'll never get kicked out'.
they're night and day.
I do agree that Sam has mellowed a ton and that she knows to relax more now. she's less on the defense and less afraid of being reassigned and losing her dream assignment.
Natural progression in a lot of ways. as peoples confidence grows, so does their level of relaxed in their position.

Totally agreed...which is why I say I could relate more to Sam than Helen...the one thing Helen & I have in common is we both have daughters...strong daughters...but without Ashley now, that commonality is diminished. And even though Sam has no children, she has Cassie but she just a more chillaxed & mellow person...and she does smile & laugh more now. Helen's slowly getting there but sometimes I think she can be a tad arrogant...but I still love her.

Always fascinated by the different way people see things. You may be right but from my perspective, I have always been somewhat surprised by how open and honest AT is at Gabit events. She has discussed some very personal things and has given some very honest opinions on questions regarding the shows she has been on and the use of her characters.
Loving the discussions regarding Helen and Sam. One part of AT I see in Sam is the reaction of Sam to Jack's funny comments. I definitely see that being AT's reaction to RDA's sense of humour.

*nods* I agree....AT & RDA playing off each other shines through on screen.
Have to also agree that some actors do share a lot of personal things with the fans and sometimes it even surprises them...like with Sir Patrick Stewart & William Shatner...both men shared something special during their respective Q&A panels that they both remarked that they hadn't ever divulged such information before and felt quite surprised at how comfortable they felt and that the shared information was just a natural flow of discussion. So yeah, I guess Amanda can be very open but I guess we all know she has to keep some things private too.
I just love when she goes all goofy on us...that to me is natural Amanda...especially when she comes out with comments about her hubby & his tool s.

it also makes me wonder IF the ptb thought it was demeaning to sam's character for her to be dismissed like that? to me, that scene felt more like 'out with the old, in with the new', i setting up woolsey being the new leader.
but i've seen the ptb write stuff that later makes them 'whaaat?' when we fans complain. (pete's antics in 'chimera' immediately comes to mind)

I think even Amanda commented "what?" about the whole Chimera thing...no wait, it was the whole saying "yes" to Pete in Affinity thing that IIRC Amanda said "what?"

I agree. In many ways, she was used as wallpaper in SGA, S4, just as much as she was in SG19&10, if not more so.

But she was a pretty wallpaper yes?? At least the walls looked great!

Wait, the kids notice that the woman scientist changes her clothes? lol, they'll lose that when they get older. They are going to like Ellen Ripley when they are old enough to watch Alien!

I'm still not old enough to watch Alien...I can watch Aliens but not the first movie...still scares the bejeezus outa me.

[EvenstarSRV]

in DK, leap of faith or desperation

I think one thing i see of Amanda in Sam is awkwardness. well meaning, not mean or rude, but awkward in the social areas. Because Amanda is, just like any of us are. Her getting lost in her inner geek or misspeaking, that's the kind of stuff that made her identifiable.

I think that's why I can't totally get into Helen. She's too self-assured, too in control, too sure of herself and too willing to say 'yeah, my will, my choice, do it'

Sam only did that when she was in a 'ok, you won't cooperate so i'll throw my rank around'

Not that there's anything wrong with helen....but, from a fic pov, i could crawl into sam's head quite easily. Not helen's. I just can't go there, and I think it's her behavior and attitude in the confidence area.

I find Sam more identifiable and 'real' than Helen.

I do kinda think that Helen has been intentionally written that way, not least because of her age and life experience, but she's has also wielded power and authority to a degree that far outstrips Sam's. Personally, it wouldn't fit the character IMO if Helen wasn't as self-assured as we've seen her, or if she was as open emotionally as Sam was.

Interesting thought about Helen/Amanda. I'm a firm believer that even those that appear very self-confident and focused still have those moments when they hesitate or doubt themselves even while they portray to the world otherwise (and make us all envy them).

What do you think might be Helen's undoing?

Moments concerning family come to mind, specifically Ashley. She was a mess and very real to me when she died and it took all of her inner strength to pull herself together and get passed it the best she could.

Speaking of which, I'd love to see Ashley mentioned again at some point in an upcoming episode. Or perhaps just seeing a pic of her somewhere in her office/bedroom (kind of like when Sam was in command at Atlantis and we saw a picture of Jack on the bookcase). Gone but not forgotten.

Well, there are several pictures of Ashley behind Helen's desk that have been there since Eulogy at least. She was also mentioned several times in S3 and I also hope they continue that in S4.

As brilliant as Sam is, in many ways she seems like someone I could have a conversation with if I met her. I think I'd be more intimidated by Helen. Maybe in that way Sam is like AT, b/c by all accounts AT is quite friendly with people she meets.

I think AT has said something similar regarding who'd she get along with better, Helen or Sam. IIRC, she picked Sam because she'd find Helen intimidating herself.

On another note, I caught the end of Reckoning today. Oh, Replicarter I miss you, you wonderful evil you.

Indeed, such a great character. I think she and Ba'al (before he was cloned) could have been interesting bad guys in S9/10, or at least more interesting than the Ori to me.

[jckfan55]

I don't think the writers at that point in time, were very good at pulling their minds out of what they thought was good to even look at things with any other POV. they literally saw events one way and didn't stop to look at them any other way.

It's like how they were shocked when fans brought up gender bias in regards to Sam and Cameron. They literally did not see it. Largely because they were men and have never faced being treated as less due to the lack of a Y chromosome. they have no experience, don't seem to have the ability to look at things with any other point of view and don't seem to worry too much about it.

I think that explains a lot of S9 &10 also. There was a certain desire to focus on new characters they fell in love with and the ones that we all came to know and love (and why we watched the show in the first place) got sacrificed. Particularly Sam and Teal'c imho. And actually I think in S10, Cam was sacrificed as well.

I was a pretty casual viewer of Atlantis. I always had a problem with the Rodney focus on Atlantis. And Shepard always acted as if he was in charge and so tended to undermine Weir. Then when they put Sam in charge, they didn't really change the dynamic at all. They wrote Sam to fit their scenario and didn't let her be Sam. IIRC, they also had writers who had never written Sam doing the episodes. What a waste of AT. I'm so glad she wound up having SAnctuary come along.

[Skydiver]

very much so. I am very glad for her that sanctuary came long, because i think the stargate franchise - as a regular job - was kinda a dead end for the character of Sam. the writers seemed bored with her and content to just have her 'there'.

She was treated like a 3 year old christmas toy....with some fondness and good memories, but replaced by the new 'bright and shiny'

Honestly, in a lot of ways, Sam was too classy for hte 'new stargate command'.

[Melora]

From Joe Mallozzi’s Blog:

My only regret with regard to the Cameron Mitchell character was the way he was introduced – specifically, the fact that he was brought in to lead SG-1. Only problem was SG-1 already had a leader in Samantha Carter. Well, theoretically she was except that, by the time season nine got underway, SG-1 was no more. With the defeat of the go’auld, the team members had gone their separate ways. And so, it fell on Mitchell to get the band back together. My writing partner Paul flagged the potential problem in the writers’ room, arguing that giving someone else command of the team (or merely suggesting as much) was disrespectful to the character Carter. A heated debate ensued and, in the end, a compromise was reached. Carter and Mitchell would share command team. Which, in retrospect, did little to quell some of the angry fan response.

It seems they did realize how the command situation might play out while they were writing the first few episodes of Season 9 – it’s just that some of the guys in charge didn’t care. The fact that Paul Mullie brought up the issue and thought it would be disrespectful to the Sam character makes me respect him a lot. Joe also seems to imply that he agreed with Paul on the issue. Too bad the other boys in the writers room didn’t seem to agree. Then again, I think some of those same guys didn't really want Sam around anymore anyways.

[Skydiver]

I can wonder if Sam's continued existence on the show was a 'problem' in that some had plans for her elsewhere (namely part time on SGA IIRC)

But we don't know and will never know if it was the writers that ultimately chose the whole co-command bit (which the military advisor should have shot down immediately), or if hte network insisted that the 'lead male' must be in charge

in either case, it was one of many slights and slings that Carter survived in the later years of the show

[hisg1fans]

Great discussion about Carter and Magnus !

I wonder if Magnus' arrogance doesn't come from buidling her own empire and always being charge her entire life. Whereas, Sam advanced through the ranks to earn her leadership position. Best advice I ever got was that good chiefs remember how to be good indians. Magnus never had to be an "indian". Sam was a great leader because she remembered how to be such a good indian.

Plus, with the longevity trait, it would be hard to form so many relationships after a while. Not just the out living others part, but the boredom of meeting the same kind of people all of the time. It would be hard to find somebody truly new and interesting.

[jckfan55]

G

Plus, with the longevity trait, it would be hard to form so many relationships after a while. Not just the out living others part, but the boredom of meeting the same kind of people all of the time. It would be hard to find somebody truly new and interesting.

One of the reasons Magnus keeps dealing with Tesla. As she said, he's so interesting.

[jckfan55]

From Joe Mallozzi’s Blog:



It seems they did realize how the command situation might play out while they were writing the first few episodes of Season 9 – it’s just that some of the guys in charge didn’t care. The fact that Paul Mullie brought up the issue and thought it would be disrespectful to the Sam character makes me respect him a lot. Joe also seems to imply that he agreed with Paul on the issue. Too bad the other boys in the writers room didn’t seem to agree. Then again, I think some of those same guys didn't really want Sam around anymore anyways.

very interesting. Good to hear Mullie recognized the problem. I continue to believe there were many ways they could have had Sam in command AND had an interesting Mitchell character had they (or the network?) wanted to do it.
They say SG1 was broken up at the start of S9. It was only broken up b/c that's what you guys wrote. It didn't have to be.

I think addressing Sam's absence and having (Major) Mitchell temporarily in charge could have worked. Sam could have been recovering from a wound, sent on a temporary assignment etc. When she recovered (i.e. AT came back from maternity leave) she would have resumed command. We could have seen T&D adjusting to Mitchell & then adjusting back to SAm and dealing with the new dynamic. Lots of character possibilities for Sam, Cam, Daniel & Teal'c.

imho, Sam in command didn't fit wth RCC's "miniseries" that opened S9.

ETA: They cynical side of me says AT's maternity leave at the start of S9 gave them a good excuse to get her out of command. Whoever "they " is .

ETA: or having Mitchell be an NCO. They can be very important advisers to officers.