Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Uber]

Spoiler:

All the former AF advisors watching Insiders (if they do actually still watch the show) would be screaming their heads off Nooooooooooooo!

Think about all the times they were ready to blow up the mountain with everyone inside! Sam being a seasoned AF officer, a LtC at that, has to face some tough decisions, and everyone working at the SGC, knows that given some situations their lives may be taken. Now I wouldn't have wanted the hostages to have been killed, but trading top secret information would not be an acceptable thing for an officer to do.

I know we may not agree on this Ooooober, but I still luvs ya

Okay let's play it out.

Spoiler:

Sam refuses to stall for time and allows all of the hostages to be killed. She's devastated...but it was what was best, right?

Landry and the others are in the middle of setting up their scenario with the gas but it's taking too long.

The Ba'als' are incensed and decide to take their consolation prize...one Lt. Colonel Samantha Carter. They drag her by gunpoint to "the room" and beam out with her.

The list of thousands of worthless gate addresses is perfectly safe...one of which may or may not be the location of a device that could get rid of all ascended beings. A list that Anubis knew all about and, even with his power, he could not locate the device.

All the hostages are dead.

Ba'al now has Carter, who he promptly snakes. Either that or he tortures and kills her over and over like he did to Jack until he gets the information he wants. Either way, he now has access to EVERYTHING she knows.

How is that better?

[Skydiver]

i'm not saying that she made the wrong decision. but it was all in how they played it out.

Spoiler:

they made it too easy. 'give me this or i'll kill the hostages...yeah, those hostages, the ones in a room down the hall that may or may not still be alive, yeah those hostages, remember them???'

she did make the only decision that she could, they just didn't set it up very well

[Uber]

i'm not saying that she made the wrong decision. but it was all in how they played it out.

Spoiler:

they made it too easy. 'give me this or i'll kill the hostages...yeah, those hostages, the ones in a room down the hall that may or may not still be alive, yeah those hostages, remember them???'

she did make the only decision that she could, they just didn't set it up very well

I agree that the set up had the finesse of a bull in a china shoppe...but she saw

Spoiler:

Ba'al cock his weapon and head for the door. He WAS going to kill Barrett. That was not a bluff. And Sam knew what Ba'al was capable of from a more personal level because of Jack. While I'm certain he didn't go into absolute detail, I'm sure she's aware of how Ba'al repeatedly tortured and killed Jack.

Ba'al doesn't bluff when he's pushed like this.

She knew she had to stall for time and did everything she could to that end to preserve the lives of the hostages and give the others a chance to restore order.

[Mandysg1]

Spoiler:

And yet, if Cam was the one captured, (if it was only and access code they needed, I'm sure they would have found a way for Cam to get out of the situation without giving the info or having the hostages killed

[DEM]

Spoiler:

The only good arguement is the expectation from Carter that her team had her back. But I dont know how she has that expectation with Mitchell leading the team. But that is the only excuse that makes any since. But then why was she apologizing at the end? Why werent they apologizing for failing and letting Ba'al get away?

Yes. Yes, yes, a thousand times YES!

Spoiler:

Not only was the situation not presented starkly enough to garner the audience's sympathy, but Carter was the ONLY one apologising. The hell?? It's not hard to see how that would make Carter's 'mistake' more glaring, validate the idea that is was a mistake, and/or make her seem too 'soft' to be a combat leader. Feh.

[astrogeologist]

Spoilers for Season 10's Insiders:

Spoiler:

And yet, if Cam was the one captured, (if it was only and access code they needed, I'm sure they would have found a way for Cam to get out of the situation without giving the info or having the hostages killed

Spoiler:

And if it was Jack that had been captured, he wouldn't have been written as anything but the Uber-smart hero, because he wouldn't have given Ba'al any real info either - Cases in point: The Aschen and the fake black hole data - and the non-functional ZPM that he palmed off on the Goa'uld (Camulus?) (in Season 8). Jack is smart. Sam is the inept geek.

[Skydiver]

now, on the upside for insiders

Spoiler:

sam and vala together was very, very well done. no animosity, no she ***** in heat competition, if anything it was 'let's us girls go show these boys how it's done

very well and very promising for the future if it keeps up

[L.A. Doyle]

Isn't Emancipation written by a woman? A lot of people thought it was crap
A lot of eps were written by the same woman. And I can't say those eps are those that had the most impact. From there we don't really notice when it's a woman writting. IMO.
Or have our males writers not be too stereotypical (is that a word?).

Emancipation was my first episode! If it had been crap, I wouldn't be here. I do think they need a woman's touch on the show...or at least some betas!

[L.A. Doyle]

Spoiler:

The Sam of the past S1-8 would have found a way to sabotage the list as mentioned by other posters. Now its my fear that they will use this as an excuse 'that she negotiated with a terrorist' to deem her unfit for commmand and thus justify Cam's leadership They are just ruining Sam's character IMO to justify the new show

Spoiler:

That would be so WRONG on their part. SO WRONG. *shakes fist angrily*

For an episode I enjoyed first viewing, I now don't feel too great about it. They are just giving people ways to shoot down Sam's character and promote Mitchell.

[Uber]

Spoilers for Season 10's Insiders:

Spoiler:

And if it was Jack that had been captured, he wouldn't have been written as anything but the Uber-smart hero, because he wouldn't have given Ba'al any real info either - Cases in point: The Aschen and the fake black hole data - and the non-functional ZPM that he palmed off on the Goa'uld (Camulus?) (in Season 8). Jack is smart. Sam is the inept geek.

I just don't see it that starkly. I mean, sure, if Sam had

Spoiler:

had the time to come up with something, she would have done it. The black hole data and dead ZPM were examples of well thought out plans. Sam didn't have that kind of luxury.

And clearly she didn't have time or the freedom to do more than stall the download. Like AD pointed out, her idea nearly worked as the gas came in right as the Ba'als escaped. Had she been able to stall even longer, they all would have been dead and her plan would have succeeded.

[L.A. Doyle]

Ooober, great posts today. I can't green ya though.

Spoiler:

I feel a bit better about the episode. I mean I can understand why Sam did what she did, but a lot of people will just use it to bash her character. What happened to solid scripts? Creativity? Canon? Geez....

[Lizlove]

Emancipation was my first episode! If it had been crap, I wouldn't be here. I do think they need a woman's touch on the show...or at least some betas!

I know it wasn't crap but I heard a lot of complaints about that ep. Maybe because Sam had too much attention or maybe because it was written by a woman. I don't know but I'm with ya'll that there needs to be some womanly touch. Or that AT could add a little something herself, after all she knows Samantha the best. She knows what's best for her and what would fit her in this season.

[Uber]

Ooober, great posts today. I can't green ya though.

Spoiler:

I feel a bit better about the episode. I mean I can understand why Sam did what she did, but a lot of people will just use it to bash her character. What happened to solid scripts? Creativity? Canon? Geez....

People use anything to bash Sam...but I agree, it's especially volatile to have her make a judgment call of this nature. Especially when the one group of folks I'd assume give her the benefit of doubt...my fellow Samandans...are leading the charge. Just imagine those who hate her are doing with this kind of thing.

On the one side, it's good because it proves we're not a bunch of lemmings. We have our own opinions and feelings and that's a good thing. On the other though, it makes me a little sad that Samandans aren't at least giving her the benefit of the doubt.

It's an indication to me that the writing was simply not tight enough to comfort and reassure my fellow Samandans...that it was so ambiguous as to make those most prone to rise to her defense now question her judgment...and for that, I'd love it if AM found himself on the business end of a tickle torture.

[Deejay435]

Spoiler:

It didn't look like that was an option, Skydiver or I would agree with you. Ba'al somehow had set everything up so that all Sam had to do was enter the code in.

It seems the best she could do without him fully catching on was slow down the download to a snail's pace...again, stalling for time.

Further, I don't think he was bluffing. I think he would have taken out a hostage every 10 minutes until she complied. She prevented a bloodbath, doing exactly what Landry did and putting the hostages lives first.

I agree X 2.

Spoiler:

First-It was just what Landry did, and had Landry made a different decision the Ba'als wouldn't have gotten away, because most of them would have been hit by the poison-but they would have had time to start killing hostages. And likely, Sam would probably be dead. And we'd all hate that.

Yeah, sure, I wish it had been different and she had been able to sabotage the data some way. But we have to remember that Ba'al has been on earth long enough to have some familiarity with computers, Goa'ulds are fairly smart, and their strength is adapting to other culture's technology, so it's not like Sam had to fool a novice into thinking Cam's Aunt Mildred's 1001 meatloaf recipes were the addresses. She had three Ba'als looking over her shoulder, watching her like a hawk. And yet she still managed to slow down the data dump considerably.

Also-I know I said this before, but I really, really can't muster up much sympathy or concern for the Ancients. They had their chance to jump in on this war, they had their chance to drive back their enemies. They refused. If they're a casualty of a war that wouldn't have started without them in the first place-I just don't care.

I'd put the life of a group of humans dedicated to protecting the galaxy over a group of ascended beings dedicated to...NOT protecting it if I was forced to make such a choice.

Tried to green you for your posts today Ooober, but it wouldn't let me.

[Uber]

I agree X 2.

Spoiler:

First-It was just what Landry did, and had Landry made a different decision the Ba'als wouldn't have gotten away, because most of them would have been hit by the poison-but they would have had time to start killing hostages. And likely, Sam would probably be dead. And we'd all hate that.

Yeah, sure, I wish it had been different and she had been able to sabotage the data some way. But we have to remember that Ba'al has been on earth long enough to have some familiarity with computers, Goa'ulds are fairly smart, and their strength is adapting to other culture's technology, so it's not like Sam had to fool a novice into thinking Cam's Aunt Mildred's 1001 meatloaf recipes were the addresses. She had three Ba'als looking over her shoulder, watching her like a hawk. And yet she still managed to slow down the data dump considerably.

Also-I know I said this before, but I really, really can't muster up much sympathy or concern for the Ancients. They had their chance to jump in on this war, they had their chance to drive back their enemies. They refused. If they're a casualty of a war that wouldn't have started without them in the first place-I just don't care.

I'd put the life of a group of humans dedicated to protecting the galaxy over a group of ascended beings dedicated to...NOT protecting it if I was forced to make such a choice.

Tried to green you for your posts today Ooober, but it wouldn't let me.

THAT'S what I wanted to say. Thank you for saying it much better than I.

I still want AM to face the tickle torture though...just for putting our fellow Samandans through this emotional wringer.