Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[scarimor]

I completely agree!

Unless it also contains an apology for that taste, explicit or implied.

-

Can you give an example of one that's out there?

[minigeek]

Well mini, your post certainly did get me thinking (I know hard to believe that happens ) Whereas I don't really feel the need to apolagize for a fic rec, I do feel the need to categorize a fic

Guys, just to clarify - it seems to me some people think I'm against categorizing or placing caveats (like Sam/Janet or Daniel/Janet or Sam/Jack or Major Character Death, etc). I'm not against placing those lables on fic, I don't care, frankly. Some people love it and require it and others think it spoils the fic in advance. I have no opinion. I was ONLY speaking to the idea of the classification being ACCOMPANIED BY a request for clemency (an apology, if you will), whether understated or explicit in nature.

The label itself or how it's worded has absolutely nothing to do with anything so far as I'm concerned. And FCOL, of course non shippers won't feel the same way as shippers. Of course there'll be surprise there, and/or disagreement - that's the whole point, isn't it? There's a great big DUH, right?

[scarimor]

I see a specific trend here, and I'm pointing out. What we'll do (or not do) with it, I can't begin to anticipate.

Point of clarification please Are you talking about liking J/S ship in fanfic, or are you talking about liking J/S ship per se (in fic, on the TV show, in discussion, the whole kaboodle)?

edit: I mean, are you saying you think there's a trend for J/S shippers to feel apologetic for just being that? Or is this just a fanfic thing?

[minigeek]

Can you give an example of one that's out there?

I already did when I referred to Sky's fic rec, and there are others. Almost all of them are the understated, implied variety. You'll never feel it because you're not part of it. You're not a shipper. I can't (and won't) begin to defend a feeling to a person who will never experience it. It simply is. Deal. (What a GIRLIE thing to say, hey? Don't invalidate my FEEELINGS!) LOL

I did, however, give examples of people who agree with me but feel reticent about posting that publicly. I did that further up in the thread. I was attempting to corroborate that the feeling is not isolated to me alone. You need to be willing to accept that people out there do exist who feel this way. And frankly, Scari, due respect but ... I don't think I can adequetly defend the existence of a feeling I have, which you don't share. But neither can you tell me I'm not feeling it, by the same token, right?

We need to stop pretending it's not here or not a valid thing to feel simply because some of us don't partake, while others do. You may never understand it - and that's fine. At the end of the day, I don't suppose you really have to. That doesn't make it an invalid or non existent emotion.

mg

[Mandysg1]

Guys, just to clarify - it seems to me some people think I'm against categorizing or placing caveats (like Sam/Janet or Daniel/Janet or Sam/Jack or Major Character Death, etc). I'm not against placing those lables on fic, I don't care, frankly. Some people love it and require it and others think it spoils the fic in advance. I have no opinion. I was ONLY speaking to the idea of the classification being ACCOMPANIED BY a request for clemency (an apology, if you will), whether understated or explicit in nature.

The label itself or how it's worded has absolutely nothing to do with anything so far as I'm concerned. And FCOL, of course non shippers won't feel the same way as shippers. Of course there'll be surprise there, and/or disagreement - that's the whole point, isn't it? There's a great big DUH, right?

Sorry mini, didn't mean to make you feel like I was attacking you
I always enjoy reading your views on things ((((mini)))

[minigeek]

Point of clarification please Are you talking about liking J/S ship in fanfic, or are you talking about liking J/S ship per se (in fic, on the TV show, in discussion, the whole kaboodle)?

edit: I mean, are you saying you think there's a trend for J/S shippers to feel apologetic for just being that? Or is this just a fanfic thing?

Just with respect to fanfiction and JUST HERE. No where else. It's a Samanda trend which is culturally dictated by THIS group, in THIS thread.

[minigeek]

Sorry mini, didn't mean to make you feel like I was attacking you
I always enjoy reading your views on things ((((mini)))

No no, I knew you weren't Mandy. I just want to try and keep things as clear as possible so I don't end up inadvertently "saying something" I never said, by way of proxy third party quotes. That's all.

[DEM]

blah.

[Strix varia]

I completely agree!

Unless it also contains an apology for that taste, explicit or implied.

-

And I get back to... what do we need to do about it?

Is it something that the anti-shippers are doing to make you feel uncomfortable; that we're treating you like second-class citizens? I know that AD and I are two of the people who frequently rec fics, so, yeah, we're going to use qualifiers since ship fic isn't always to our taste, and we understand (and appreciate) that this is true for others on this thread. On the other hand, there's no law anywhere that says S/J shippers can't rec S/J fics to your hearts' content, although I assume that this happens on the S/J ship list, too.

Which brings me to... there is a S/J ship thread. This is the only pro-Sam thread around where I feel comfortable as a non-S/J ship person. But I dont' see people bashing S/J ship on this thread, either (except teasingly), so it's not like I can come in and politely ask people to stop bashing the ship.

And honestly, it's a lot easier for me to stop making S/J fic reccs entirely than have to worry about how I do it. If I don't qualify it as ship fic, then the anti-shippers won't be happy. And if I use qualifiers, apparently it's upsetting to the shippers. So my solution is... I'll leave the S/J fic recs from now on to the S/J shippers with the polite request that they at least indicate there is S/J ship in them, but with no apologies for it.

[minigeek]

Say, do you suppose it's possible that scarimor was asking for information for clarification purposes, rather than asking you to defend yourself? You're talking about doing something about some issue that some unknown number of people "can't possibly feel" -- well, then, those unfeelers need help. I think Strix asked point blank what you would like in order to make you feel more comfy.

Perhaps I don't understand what it is y'all are going round and round about.

Hey please go back and quote me again - I revised what I'd said to better clarify and to not say something a certain way. Appreciate it if you'd re-select that quote and replace it.

You're talking about doing something about some issue that some unknown number of people "can't possibly feel" -- well, then, those unfeelers need help. I think Strix asked point blank what you would like in order to make you feel more comfy.

You're right. I am kind of doing that. And to be honest, I don't have a constructive suggestion of what can be tangibly done - it's a group think mentality.

I suppose all I want at this point is for it to be acknowledged without argument as being a real "thing", and not some figment of imagination that doesn't exist.

[Strix varia]

Man, I really wish Sal were here to chip in on this.

[scarimor]

I already did when I referred to Sky's fic rec,

In that case I'll just have to accept that I'm totally lost on it, because I can't see any apology for anything in Sky's rec for that fic - nothing explicit and nothing implied. She promised a booty-kicking Sam, some darkness and some J/S tones. And I went straight to it and read it.

[edit] Oh! waitaminute! is it the "but it's good" line after the dark and tones line? Because I took that as a "Man, but it's good" type of comment; but I can see how it might be read as "but despite being dark with J/S tones, this fic is good" comment instead.

If it's not that, I'm still totally lost.

[Mandysg1]

Speaking of Sam/Jack ship! ROTFLOL!

Is this also in London?? Darn it, I dunno if I can swing two trips to the UK in a couple months! D'oh!

Well mini if I win the Super 7 or 649 then I'll pack you in my suitcase and head on over *wonders if hugehonkinamazongeek can fit into a suitcase*

[minigeek]

And I get back to... what do we need to do about it?

Is it something that the anti-shippers are doing to make you feel uncomfortable; that we're treating you like second-class citizens? I know that AD and I are two of the people who frequently rec fics, so, yeah, we're going to use qualifiers since ship fic isn't always to our taste, and we understand (and appreciate) that this is true for others on this thread. On the other hand, there's no law anywhere that says S/J shippers can't rec S/J fics to your hearts' content, although I assume that this happens on the S/J ship list, too.

Which brings me to... there is a S/J ship thread. This is the only Sam thread around where I feel comfortable as a non-S/J ship person. But I dont' see people bashing S/J ship on this thread, either (except teasingly), so it's not like I can come in and politely ask people to stop bashing the ship.

And honestly, it's a lot easier for me to stop making S/J fic reccs entirely than have to worry about how I do it. If I don't qualify it as ship fic, then the anti-shippers won't be happy. And if I use qualifiers, apparently it's upsetting to the shippers. So my solution is... I'll leave the S/J fic recs from now on to the S/J shippers with the polite request that they at least indicate there is S/J ship in them, but with no apologies for it.

OK...

Let me break this down because I think it's skewed. Here is what i personally have gotten out of this discussion so far and why I think I need to break it down.

1. I was posting, initially, to highlight a social tendancy I observed here with respect to apologising for certain gengres of fic while simultaneously recommending them (specifically Sam/Jack) - in ADDITION to placing caveats (like S/J etc) on the story (which I have no problem with at all).

2. I was responded to saying (to paraphrase) that the caveats were courteous and that they were a simple respectful thing to do and had nothing to do with apology.

3. I thought (huh? that's not what I said at all). So I TRIED to clarify - no, I mean, the caveat goes on there (this is S/J) as normal ... AND THEN... THEN, there's something more implied (It's S/J but it's not bad! It's S/J but it's actually worth reading! It's S/J but... please don't thwack me!).

4. I was responded to again (by non shippers primarily) saying: I don't think there's any apology involved.

5. I replied with (to parahprase): Why would you? You're not the group doing the fic recommending for this genre?

6. I was asked for examples of apology.

7. I got frustrated and thought - how the heck can I give you examples of a FEELING? When if I give you an example of a caveat with a BUT in it, you'll just TELL ME it's not an apology. But how do you know that? How do you know that the person who wrote it wasn't thinking: "Gee, I know Samanda is sort of anti-ship, so I'd better qualify the hell out of this before I recommend it, in case people think I like/write/read lame fic).

8. I was asked why I'm going Round n Round.

9. Here I am now (I don't know what I'm doing anymore). But my frickin fingers HURT.

[Uber]

And I get back to... what do we need to do about it?

Is it something that the anti-shippers are doing to make you feel uncomfortable; that we're treating you like second-class citizens? I know that AD and I are two of the people who frequently rec fics, so, yeah, we're going to use qualifiers since ship fic isn't always to our taste, and we understand (and appreciate) that this is true for others on this thread. On the other hand, there's no law anywhere that says S/J shippers can't rec S/J fics to your hearts' content, although I assume that this happens on the S/J ship list, too.

Which brings me to... there is a S/J ship thread. This is the only Sam thread around where I feel comfortable as a non-S/J ship person. But I dont' see people bashing S/J ship on this thread, either (except teasingly), so it's not like I can come in and politely ask people to stop bashing the ship.

And honestly, it's a lot easier for me to stop making S/J fic reccs entirely than have to worry about how I do it. If I don't qualify it as ship fic, then the anti-shippers won't be happy. And if I use qualifiers, apparently it's upsetting to the shippers. So my solution is... I'll leave the S/J fic recs from now on to the S/J shippers with the polite request that they at least indicate there is S/J ship in them, but with no apologies for it.

Or better yet...

Rec everything you like and simply let people know what's involved. Sam/Jack. Sam/Naquadah Reactor. Whatever.

I see it as a courtesy to clue people in as to the theme of the story. I also like to know if there's dark content...rape, death, etc.

All of these things help me determine whether or not I want to read a fic or not.

But then I've read fics of Sam pairings I don't support but the story was good and I enjoyed that part of the fic. Heck, I've even read Sam/Janet stuff written by someone named Strix Varia because I like her writing style and enjoyed the story. Was the Sam/Janet part the reason why I read it? No. Did I particularly like that aspect of the story? Not really. But the story was well written and pro-Sam.

And that's the point.

The stories recommended here are pro-Sam...whether she's shipped or not in the fic is just another layer of interest.

To me at least.

So I hope no one apologizes for the pairing in a fic...just say what it is and let people decide for themselves.