Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Simhavaktra]

I need a few seconds to vent. I know this probably doesn't have relevance here but I need an ear that'll at least understand.

A few months back, I started posting to help out some other SAmandans in spreading some positive remarks about Sam over in the "official" forum. I took a break and stopped a while back because it was just too hostile (in general). Well, after I did that CB sketch, I thought I'd share it over there in the CB thread, since that seems to be where a great majority of CB fans are. I have a history of defending the Carter character on those boards, but I figured that wouldn't matter. So I posted the sketch. Want to know the ONLY reply I got? As a PM on the "official" boards, I got this:

too little too late

Now I realize it wasn't the greatest sketch in the world, but what the heck does that mean? I'm definitely not into pidgeonholeing people or forming generic stereotypes, but I simply cannot help but compare two groups of people when something like that happens. I worked for a while on that sketch, and while I wasn't doing it for fanfare, I certainly wasn't doing it for some kind of insult. I have to say, that is the last time I share anything with that particular fan segment. I'm really sorry to say that. But it certainly seems to me that AT's fans seem a heck of a lot friendlier to chat with than some of the others I've met since joining these forums online. I don't know why that is, and it's certainly just my own experience, but I have to say it none the less.

Before I go I should mention that one Vala/CB fan did send me a nice PM. But it was here in GW. Rather ironically, I received *several* very sweet comments and PMs from SAmandans about it (imagine that!), so again, I think that case is resting rather soundly.

Bah to the self-important and self-righteous. Assuming that someone created and posted an artwork to suck up to the viewers' group or opinions is a form of arrogance in my opinion, and there's a reason that 'vain' is a synonym for both 'arrogant' and 'pointless.' "This is pretty - and neat " is always a valid motivation to post on-topic artwork. (says someone who's seen way more 'Look!!!! Look!!!! Is COOL!!!! ::bounce:: ::bounce::' pictures of musical instruments than one would imagine that any mailing list for an obscure instrument could produce, much less support and liked all of them, even when they came from posters that, in my silent heart of hearts, I'd sometimes wished would give their own pet theories on the ap Huw manuscript a rest once in a while )

I'm very glad that Sky affirms that such a form of arrogance won't have a place here, and I'm inspired by your work, Mini, to the point that I might have to dig out my plethora of pencils, erasers, films, and tortillons and do a few portraits of Sam, Jack, George, Janet, and, yes, maybe even Vala.

Simha (lapsed sketch artist )

[minigeek]

Yes, yes, please do!! More art, more!

Bah to the self-important and self-righteous. Assuming that someone created and posted an artwork to suck up to the viewers' group or opinions is a form of arrogance in my opinion, and there's a reason that 'vain' is a synonym for both 'arrogant' and 'pointless.' "This is pretty - and neat " is always a valid motivation to post on-topic artwork. (says someone who's seen way more 'Look!!!! Look!!!! Is COOL!!!! ::bounce:: ::bounce::' pictures of musical instruments than one would imagine that any mailing list for an obscure instrument could produce, much less support and liked all of them, even when they came from posters that, in my silent heart of hearts, I'd sometimes wished would give their own pet theories on the ap Huw manuscript a rest once in a while )

I'm very glad that Sky affirms that such a form of arrogance won't have a place here, and I'm inspired by your work, Mini, to the point that I might have to dig out my plethora of pencils, erasers, films, and tortillons and do a few portraits of Sam, Jack, George, Janet, and, yes, maybe even Vala.

Simha (lapsed sketch artist )

[Strix varia]

That's very sweet of you sky. But very honestly, this isn't even about being appreciated. Lord knows it's not. It's about the constant (almost evil) negativity that I've felt from that end of the spectrum. To the point that every bit of minutia is spat upon if it even remotely relates to an individual or idea which is positive to Amanda and/or Sam (who's a TV character for crying out loud!). That attitude has had me alternating between shocked and frankly disgusted since I first started reading it. I imagine that's what it what it must be like in a highschool schoolyard between rival "factions" (thankfully I never experienced that kind of highschool myself, growing up). I guess this is the "tawdry underbelly" of fandom. And obviously it's not everybody who's like that, it's a select few - but holy moses are they loud and prolific. Call me niave, but it does amaze me the depths to which it goes.

Yes, it's flabbergasting. And it can't be healthy to be stewing in such constant hatred of a fictional character all the time. Judging by how much time some of them spend posting on the boards, it has to be continually in their consciousness. I wonder how anyone can take such pleasure in repeatedly, methodically tearing something/someone apart. As a firm believer in karma...

I really liked the Vala drawing, btw. I wish they'd fix the jello fridge.

[Skydiver]

what goes aroudn comes around.

for many, and i don't mean all, of the sam haters....this show is all they have. some of them make thier living going to con after con, selling thier own creations (zines, pictures, etc).

the show and following the show is their life. they don't have anything else.

many of the folks here (and all over the fandom) have other interests. they have families and jobs and hobbies that aren't stargate related. they have outside interests and i think those interests keep them grounded in reality.

not every sam hater is like that, some just have nothing better to do.

when the show ends, most of them will move on and find antoher fandom. some of them originally were in the sentinel fandom and tried to recreate that show in stargate (seeing jim and blair in jack and daniel), others didn't, but they will move on. they'll find another buddy show to fuel thier preference for a m/m buddy relationship and they'll leave us alone

i don't worry about them. i have my own issues to deal with and they have thiers.

[Uber]

i'm sorry you had such a sour experience MG. but you know, don't let a couple of narrow minded people scare you off.

i'm sure there were plenty that appreciated your sketch for what it was, a real and true piece of art.

for some, whose whole existence is sucking up to 'friends' or currying favor, nothing anyone does will ever be enough. their sole focus is thier motions they can put forth, not real and genuine feelings.

even though this is a sam thread, the day that we ban talk of another character or ban artwork of another character is the day i close this thread.

don't let a few narrow minded folks scare you off. post what you want when y ou want and let your true feelings be reason enough. if they can't appreciate your skill, then that's their loss

I saw this quote in the blog comments and it seems so apros pos for Samanda:

"A man who lives, not by what he loves but what he hates, is a sick man." -Archibald Macleish

We live by what we love here. We love Sam, we love Amanda, we enjoy Stargate, we like the other cast members...and with CB a series regular, she's now on my favorites list right under Amanda as I LOVED her in Farscape.

The only thing I hate is bashing...character bashing or actor bashing. It's one thing to talk privately amongst friends about any ill feelings about a character or actor or whatever, but never in an open forum. It has no place in fandom and especially no place in Samanda.

Thankfully Samandans aren't bashers. Sure, we're critical, both of Sam and the choices she's made in her life or things she's done from time to time...but it's a constructive criticism. This is also true of Vala for the most part. We criticize but it's done with an attitude of always wanting the best for the show and is never as a slight to CB...who, whether you love or hate Vala, is a delightful woman and a very talented actress.

I'll get my dander up when I see bashing of any kind...even against actors or characters who aren't my favorites because it has no place in fandom and needs to be opposed where ever it rears its ugly head.

Apparently there's been a divide in fandom since Shanks left originally that created a rabid antiAmanda/antiSam splinter cell; but I wasn't around during that time...at least in fandom...so I don't know all the why's and wherefore's, only speculation by those who survived it. I watched the show from the comfort of my den, completely oblivious of whatever firestorms rained during that time in fandom. Now we have a scenario where this splinter cell has branched out to cover Claudia Black as well (lucky her).

Well I think that both Amanda and Claudia would be thoroughly distressed by these kinds of sentiments and would do whatever they could to quash them.

Just keep this quote in mind: "A man who lives, not by what he loves but what he hates, is a sick man." -Archibald Macleish

It will empower you when dealing with those who have nothing good to say at all. You have the stronger footing because you can distinguish between criticizing constructively and crossing the line by endlessly bashing and rehashing old and tired rhetoric against a character or cast member.

[minigeek]

Can I post sketch teasers? lol

You can see what I mean by a harder style, not so "soft-sweet", more comic-book-esque.

[Skydiver]

the tensions had always been there.

from the beginning, many of the more proactive fans were fans of daniel and the jack/daniel dynamic. but there were also folks that liked the sam/jack angle, but since ship - in the early seasons - was open to the interpretation, shippers were easily dismissed.

then came D&C and Proof for the shippers. and a chance for the anti-shippers to take offense at that proof.

and so it began

since many of the lists and archives were owned by the friendship folks, they started to ban ship stuff from thier archives. tempers flared and things were said.

teh shippers went off and made thier own groups and lists and pages and a stalemate ensued.

then came daniel's departure from the show. obviously the daniel fans were upset. it's no fun to lose your favored character. however, not all fans were upset. for many, they didn't care. and the divide grew wider as 'not caring' was turned into or grew into being glad that the character was gone.

looking for someone and something to blame, sam and jack became an easy target, aided in no little way by MS who mentioned sam and jack in an interview or two.

with a focal point for their loss, sam and jack became the reason for daniel's departure. And, since for many daniel and jack was a preferred pairing, they coulnd't blame jack and rda without endangering half of their pairing, so Sam and Amanda was blamed.

things snowballed from there.

for much of s6, some of the more passionate daniel fans could focus thier ire on jonas and Corin. everh little thing he did was criticized, every little move he made picked apart. Any statement he made was tweaked to emphasize the most unflattering bits (and, to be fair, the dannyranters weren't the only ones doing this)

after jonas left the show and ms returned, the passionate daniel fans still weren't happy. they've gotten so used to hating something that, with jonas gone, sam became thier target.

ship became their enemy, every line sam has is a line that daniel could have had.

now, now i think they're so used to hating some aspect of the show that they don't know how to stop. Sam is thier enemy and i honestly don't think they'll be happy until amanda's off the show.

but, even if amanda quits, they'll turn thier attention to someone else. they're so used to hating that they don't know how NOT to hate.

my money is on cam. They will hate cam because he's usurped Daniel's starring role, and if vala and cam are paired up to recreate farscape, then it'll be cam because it should be daniel and vala that are paired up, not cam and vala

now bear in mind that this isn't objective. this is my recollection of things.

folks that weren't around a few years ago can be glad that they weren't. what's going on now with vala and cam...it's nothing compared to the mess that happened when MS left

[Skydiver]

i envy you MG. i wish i could draw, really, really wish. but i just don't have the talent. you're very lucky to be so graced

[minigeek]

i envy you MG. i wish i could draw, really, really wish. but i just don't have the talent. you're very lucky to be so graced

You can WRITE. And you write spectacularily; professional quality stuff. That's just as big a talent and just as huge a gift. I totally envy THAT!! So we're even. Everyone has their own "gifts", and their own art.

[STARGATE7777]

A few months ago someone sent me a message that suggested that I try that OTHER forum because they felt that they needed support for certain characters. I never got around to it until yesterday. Holy Hatred, Batman!

Those people are ......CRAZY!!!.

The first thing I read was...Well, I'm a Sam hater. WHAT?...How old are these people. Do they not realize that this is a TV show? I wanted to join and tell them they were acting like two year olds who didn't get their own way but I was afraid they might track me down and kill me in my sleep. My advice. Stay away.

[Melora]

I need a few seconds to vent. I know this probably doesn't have relevance here but I need an ear that'll at least understand.

A few months back, I started posting to help out some other SAmandans in spreading some positive remarks about Sam over in the "official" forum. I took a break and stopped a while back because it was just too hostile (in general). Well, after I did that CB sketch, I thought I'd share it over there in the CB thread, since that seems to be where a great majority of CB fans are. I have a history of defending the Carter character on those boards, but I figured that wouldn't matter. So I posted the sketch. Want to know the ONLY reply I got? As a PM on the "official" boards, I got this:

too little too late

Oooo…this makes me very angry.

Minigeek – First of all, you are very brave just to venture into that territory. And that you were willing to post such a lovely sketch in a possibly hostile place says a lot about your generous nature.

Every time you post a drawing, you are sharing such a precious gift with us. Every work of art, every story, every creative project is an expression of a person’s love or admiration for something. When I read a great fanfic, or see a beautiful piece of artwork (like your drawings), it brightens my day and inspires me. It shows me that there are talented people out there that are willing to share their gifts with strangers for little or nothing in return. The person who PM’ed you was truly unworthy of your generosity and his or her words and actions reveal a deplorable lack of graciousness and the pettiness of his or her own character.

I hope you keep on sharing your work, both here on Samanda and elsewhere. You have so much talent that it would be a shame for you not to. BTW – the sample looks fabulous. Can’t wait to see the rest.

Melora

[LaCroix]

I think a while back we were concerned about AT reading what was being said over at TBHTIS. What would CB think if she went to that fourm and read the things being said about her.

Would she think the only reason why I'm well loved over there, is because these persons want Sam/AT out? What happens when TPTB write an episode with my character and Sam without the rest of the team? Will they love me/my character like they did before?

I think that she'd be appalled and very much concerned, if these persons were to ask her why she (CB) allowed this. I know I would be.

Also Minigeek I loved both your drawings of AT and CB. Maybe you should send them both to each actor.

[jckfan55]

Can I post sketch teasers? lol

You can see what I mean by a harder style, not so "soft-sweet", more comic-book-esque.

Oooh--I can't wait to see it! Keep up the artwork. I bet AT would love the drawings & I hope you send them to her.

As far as the haters with no life, sometimes I think I spend too much time on GW, but at least I *know* this is a hobby and not my life. It's a diversion. I really enjoy the fun, clever and often thought provoking comments from people especially here. And the artwork. If I had found that other site first I doubt I would have spent any time in "fandom." I feel I really lucked out finding GW and especially this thread in my first days exploring the site.
Hic Comitas Regit!

[pittsburghgirl]

Uber you make a really good point-as does Skydiver-the problem is that unfortunately are their some people in this world that feel so bad about themselves that they have to make others look or feel bad, in order for them to feel or look better.

there is no accounting for taste I suppose-but haters exist among us and the nature of the beast is that they have to find something to hate or they won't be happy.

justifying hate is just sad

rosemary

[Agent_Dark]

Can I post sketch teasers? lol

You can see what I mean by a harder style, not so "soft-sweet", more comic-book-esque.

:O

WHERE'S THE REST??!?!?!?!?


And for the record? Sam Carter and Lara Croft in the same show would be very, very cool. Hell, Amanda Tapping and Angelina Jolie in the same scene would be very very cool (and hot!)