Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[flippy18]

(((Kat)))
I really hope you will be able to make it to Gabit. Thinking of you and yours.

[parsifal]

I apologize if this territory has already been covered; I didn't follow the whole "Gemini" debate.

S8

Spoiler:

Sam didn't realize that just because RC had her memories, it did not mean that she shared her morals or came to the same conclusions and choices as she had made. Sam became who she was as a result of the choices and experiences in her life...but to Replicarter, they were merely concepts to be exploited and used for her benefit.

Sam is not a dupe. Sam is not a sucker.

Spoiler:

I agree that RC's manipulation was very sophisticated (and potentially risky) and that Sam's belief in her was understandable. However, I would have to say that she bears some culpability for her "blind spot" in regard to RC. Would you agree that part of Sam's vulnerability to manipulation (particular to RC) was her denial about potential aspects of her own personality? We see hints of this struggle in their final "conversation" when Sam refuses to acknowledge that she denies herself what she desires. She seems uncomfortable with the thought. Was RC's double cross such a surprise because Sam didn't want to admit to herself that she was capable of the formulation of such a plan (irrespective of whether she would actually carry it to fruition)? To contrast, I wonder if Jack would have harbored any such illusions about a double of himself? I'm not saying that Sam should be the Jack character, but in some regards Jack seems much more honest with himself.

I don't know if a more skeptical Sam would have changed the outcome (RC's plan was well conceived and took advantage of the SGC's practical considerations), but I think her willingness to believe does warrant analysis.

I hope that rambling was somewhat coherent.

[the dancer of spaz]

In regards to Gemini, Sally and Mary Beth bring up great points.

Though I think it was a bad idea to write it that way (which I'll explain in a moment), I think it really WAS in Sam's character to do that. In fact, it would have been in Daniel's character to do it as well. At any rate, the way you guys are looking at it is logical. I don't blame her for trusting herself. While I DO question the wisdom of trusting any form of a replicator, I thought it was really cool to see how absolutely evil and manipulative Sam could be, if pushed hard enough. Like you guys said, she knew exactly what to say and how to say it to not only win over Sam, but to also have Teal'c faltering. I think RepliCarter was 2 parts replicator, 2 parts Sam, and that's really neat.

All that said... We all know that the character gets a lot of crap for various issues that have already been expressed and disputed here. So, my question is this: Why would they have her make such a huge - albeit understandable - mistake, when she already gets criticized?

Looking at it from a writer's point of view, I guess it could be argued that they're not as aware of fandom ideological platforms as we are. But I find it hard to believe that they had NO idea that Sam takes heat and HAS taken heat for over two years now.

Timing is everything. If this had happened at the beginning of the issues that arose from S6, there might not have been so bad of a fallout. However, this occurred AFTER Daniel had come back, AFTER the scapegoat Jonas left, AFTER certain fans had been able to let their hate for Sam stew, AFTER Sam had started a relationship with Pete, AFTER Sam and Jack continued to tiptoe around their relationship (whatever you think THAT is), and AFTER Sam continued to show her eternal perfection/flaws.

I just don't think a mistake like this came at the right time, unfortunately. Though, for some fans, there's never really a right time....

[Strix varia]

All that said... We all know that the character gets a lot of crap for various issues that have already been expressed and disputed here. So, my question is this: Why would they have her make such a huge - albeit understandable - mistake, when she already gets criticized?

Looking at it from a writer's point of view, I guess it could be argued that they're not as aware of fandom ideological platforms as we are. But I find it hard to believe that they had NO idea that Sam takes heat and HAS taken heat for over two years now.

Timing is everything. If this had happened at the beginning of the issues that arose from S6, there might not have been so bad of a fallout. However, this occurred AFTER Daniel had come back, AFTER the scapegoat Jonas left, AFTER certain fans had been able to let their hate for Sam stew, AFTER Sam had started a relationship with Pete, AFTER Sam and Jack continued to tiptoe around their relationship (whatever you think THAT is), and AFTER Sam continued to show her eternal perfection/flaws.

I just don't think a mistake like this came at the right time, unfortunately. Though, for some fans, there's never really a right time....

Another thing that didn't help was the fact that the spoilers for the episode revealed the fact that Sam was duped well before the ep aired.

Everyone knew the outcome before they saw it, and I think it predisposed people to see her actions as stupid. If the outcome had been more in doubt, I think, maybe, people wouldn't have been quite so harsh. But they didn't give the fans much of an alternative to viewing every action and decision as a mistake knowing in advance that Replicarter was going to turn on them.

[the dancer of spaz]

Another thing that didn't help was the fact that the spoilers for the episode revealed the fact that Sam was duped well before the ep aired.

Everyone knew the outcome before they saw it, and I think it predisposed people to see her actions as stupid. If the outcome had been more in doubt, I think, maybe, people wouldn't have been quite so harsh. But they didn't give the fans much of an alternative to viewing every action and decision as a mistake knowing in advance that Replicarter was going to turn on them.

Definitely. Whosever bright idea that was, needs to rethink their summarizing tactics.

[jckfan55]

Nope. And I would really like to take bets on how much longer this thread is gonna last before it's closed by a mod.

Yes, everytime someone tries to make a reasonable (& reasoned) comment, someone else (we have 2 main people now) will make a personal attack or condescending comment. Certain people who shall remain nameless have an awfully high opinion of themselves, don't they?

[jckfan55]

This is exactly how I feel. I know some people feel Sam was out of character in this episode, but if you really examine it, you can see what traps she fell into and why...and how it was completely within her character.

People keep saying how could Sam let her in her mind. They should have known that Sam wasn't about to let a replicator of any kind in her mind again. So they shouldn't have been surprised when Sam said..."We weren’t in my mind – we were in hers." She answered that when Teal'c asked if Replicarter figured out Sam's true intentions...which were to get as much intel out of Replicarter regarding Fifth and the replicators as they could while RC was there and then they'd have to destroy her. "I figured we didn’t have anything to lose. Like you said, either way, we can’t let her live."

You know I didn't even have a problem with her idea of bringing RC back to earth. Because remember at that time, Fifth was still on the way to the Alpha site and they hadn't finished protecting themselves against the threat he posed. They needed to ensure that Fifth hadn't found a way around the cipher. They've had enemies on the base before if you will recall for all sorts of purposes. So Sam saw this as yet another time when they'd have to have a foe on the base short term to ensure their safety long term again with the ultimate understanding that when RC had finished being useful, she would be killed.

But of course this all relied on the facts she was handed by RepliCarter...which turned out to be false. Why? Because Replicarter knew exactly how to manipulate her. She knew exactly what buttons to push...what memories to stir. Remember this..."I’ve never even set foot on Earth, but I have this image of lying under the willow tree in our back yard. It’s a sunny day, but when I close my eyes, the wind in the leaves sounds exactly like rain"? RC wasn't taking a picturesque stroll down memory lane with Sam because she really shared Sam's emotions (it's clear later on she felt that Sam was essentially a sentimental goody two shoes who would never reach her full potential because of the limits she puts on herself...like morality), she did it to manipulate Sam into believing that because they because shared all the same memories, the memories of experiences that made Sam who she was, they must indeed share the same soul, if you will, and that they were so much alike that as Replicarter said..."What Fifth didn’t realize was the things that drew him to you were inseparable from the things that made you reject him and the life he was offering..." Such a logical argument from someone Sam thought she knew so well.

Sam didn't realize that just because RC had her memories, it did not mean that she shared her morals or came to the same conclusions and choices as she had made. Sam became who she was as a result of the choices and experiences in her life...but to Replicarter, they were merely concepts to be exploited and used for her benefit.

She also knew when to pull the betrayal card..."Now you’re lying to me the way you lied to Fifth." Sam hated what she did to Fifth and believed there was something redeemable in him...something that came again to life when he released her...and RC knew that this one card would hurt the most.

Sam is not a dupe. Sam is not a sucker.

BUT the one person in the entire galaxy who knew how to manipulate Samantha Carter IS Samantha Carter. That should tell you something right there.

And I soooo agree. I hope however that RC survived the blast...that perhaps Oma pulled her away from it too...and I'm really pulling for a Carter/RepliCarter showdown.

This time, Sam knows what to expect and would not be fooled again.

This time...she'd kick some major RC butt.

Well said people. And you know if Sam had just blasted RC, certain people would have said "what a cold b****." I would have rather seen her catch on to the manipulation slightly sooner, and been the one to try the disintegrator, but I can certainly see why she kept trying to the last minute. She really thought they could get the answer out of RC.
And it's not like others haven't made mistakes or gotten manipulated. Heck, Teal'c fell for a fake Jaffa messiah after all. I didn't hear anyone kicking him off the team for being manipulated by Imotep.(sp?)

[the dancer of spaz]

Yes, everytime someone tries to make a reasonable (& reasoned) comment, someone else (we have 2 main people now) will make a personal attack or condescending comment. Certain people who shall remain nameless have an awfully high opinion of themselves, don't they?

Nameless? High opinions?

Nah... Lighty and Dep are harmless and humble... Honest.

[ChevronSeven]

And it's not like others haven't made mistakes or gotten manipulated. Heck, Teal'c fell for a fake Jaffa messiah after all. I didn't hear anyone kicking him off the team for being manipulated by Imotep.(sp?)

And that's why Jack didn't repremand her. Sam more or less repremanded herself.

[Lys]

It seems that our Royal Accountant has, indeed, had a "senior moment".

Perchance, if she wouldst just purchase these magazines instead of returning to the pharmacy and surreptitiously hiding behind the bedpan display whilst perusing the articles about Amanda ... then we would be receiving timely information in an accurate manner.

I know that our dear Bean Counter has taken offense at the use of the term "senior", but methinks that the lady doth protest too much. This was a costly error. The Royal Security Guards have been in quite a state of distraction ever since our RA announced the Queen on a volleyball court and playing fiercely and winning the tournament! Royal Head, himself, had then reached the conclusion that the aforesaid match was played on a sandy terrain with scanty costumes. Somehow, a sandy and sweaty Sam Carter suddenly seemed the image of the day. Now we hear that our Queen was playing another American sport called baseball instead ... and probably properly attired.



Would the Royal Reporter care to take our Royal Bean Counter under tutelage regarding "truth in reporting"?

A concerned Jester

What's happening ? I'm leaving for a few days and Jester spots the Royal Accountant hiding in the pharmacy ! And behind the bedpan display !
Could the Royal Security Guards take rounds and protect the pharmacy and its supply of special blue jello ? Methinks the Royal Accountant is addicted to it.

[SunKrux]

Sorry if we're putting you on the defensive, SunKrux.

The forum we're referring to is the Sony Stargate Sg-1 forum (also known as the Place of Black Negativity), where many Daniel and Vala fans spend endless hours trying to figure out every single possible way to slam Sam (and all too often, Amanda Tapping) into the dirt. The convoluted and creative ways they go about it are truly mind boggling. I think if you go visit and read through some of the threads, you will understand why some of us sound like we've got sour grapes when it comes to Daniel and Vala. It's hard to stay positive when faced with such overwhelming negativity directed towards Sam coming from that particular group of fans.

On the other hand, as a Vala fan, you'll find lots of pro Vala threads. Just don't forget to come play with us, too!

I'm not really defensive, sorry if you got that impression. Just don't want to be lumped in with those yahoos.

Oh, well then I'm clear. I don't go to that forum. I went there once...to a Vala thread...but left because someone in the thread called a certain blonde beauty a really bad thing (I won't repeat it here...not worth it). I just walked away shaking my head at the sheer stupidity of some people. It must make them feel soooooo much better to put down an character/actor because they are so gaga over another actor/character. Who needs all that negativity when there is so much negative in the real world as it is? Not me. I've had my share and I'm done with it.

I can totally understand the frustration some of you have felt at the hands of over zealous Vala, Daniel and Vala/Daniel fans. I have the same frustration and some days, it's all I can do to not b**chslap some of those fans. While I admire Claudia, I am not the type of fan to place her up high on some unattainable stool and fall at her feet and worship her. Therefore with some Claudia/Aeryn/Vala fans I am pretty much an outcast as I have no qualms about calling them on their fanatical behavior. I'm so bad. LOL <weg>

Doesn't really matter what actor/actress for me, I don't worship actors. I am one in my spare time. It's really kinda creepy when people come up to you in the stores/whathave you and start talking to you like they're your best friend or something. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate when folks tell me they enjoy my performances, but when I start walking away after I've said thank you, politely, that should be a clue that I'm uncomfortable and want to end the convo. I try to treat all actors with respect and it irks me no end when other people can't or won't do the same. It's like some fans think the actors owe them more than what they give us on screen. Truth of the matter is, actors don't owe us anything more than what they have already given us. I sometimes wish I could make fanatics see that. But then I quickly realize that most fanatics are a few fries shore a happy meal. <weg> Then I walk away shaking my head at the sheer stupidity of it. LOL

[SunKrux]

Ok, how about I put one in my name too? mïnigeek

Now we both have a dorky sideways colon-thingy!

There's no reasoning with those foolish twits, hun. It's not worth the trouble. Come play here, where the water's warm, and there's more than enough blue jello to go around.

mïnidork (I mean geek)

Uber (sorry can't do that colon thingy at work) - I think you should listen to mini - just walk away. Don't go there. It's a scary neighborhood and you should just stay the frell out of it. It's better that they eat their own and not one of ours.

btw, some of you might notice that I play here far more frequently than I do at any of the Vala threads. You lot are much more fun and friendly. That and I refuse to go to the Sony forums. Just say no to negative.

[SunKrux]

It's the Mitchell as leader thread. And wow, a couple of those guys are really condescending there. I already had to place someone named "Darth Buddah" on ignore because he sent me the rudest private rep comment. Talk about name calling, yeesh. I really wonder if arguing with them is even worth it. They obviously can't stand the Sam Carter character. For whatever their reasons are, I highly doubt we'll be able to change their minds. Zoiks.

I can say that I think most Sam fans should put that certain fan on ignore. If you don't agree with him/her, you're against him/her and you won't win.

Hey mini - at least you got a slack reason for getting dinged by that person. I just got dinged. I hope he/she feels better now. LOL

[jerin]

I'm going to quote myself (again)...and change what I'm asking.

I encourage you to respond to this...it's good for JM to see that this kind of insipid Sam bashing is not tolerated.

I can't find your response when I click the link. It just take me to JM's blog. Please let me know.

[jerin]

i LOVE xena! now *that's* a well written and different show!


sally


ps - hated, though, the last season and that horrific last ep...

Okay, so this is OT, but I also loved Xena & hated the last episode.