Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[jckfan55]

OK, this is my last post...I'm leaving today, and I don't know when I'll be able to be back, so I just wanted to say, thank you, to everyone in Samanda....for making my time on the Forum, and here, so much fun. I haven't been posting much lately, but I have been reading......and you have kept my mind off RL, and for that alone I thank you.

And now, for a totally off topic, not so funny cap, but I'm out of new Sam pics (horrors) and haven't been able to get new ones. I promise to try harder when I return. I just liked this shot of her......



*waves to everyone*


HIC COMITAS REGIT!

All the best to you Lida. If I may add a caption to your already great one:

Jeepers, the boys really work up a sweat with those basketball games. Phew! What else can a girl to do?

[chocdoc]

Hey AD, thanks for the attempt to lighten things up.

I have to comment on the leadership issue, though. Your perspective is perfectly valid, and it's probably a healthy way to look at things, so don't think I'm trying to knock you.

But, I want to point out that some of us are worked up about it because it goes beyond the scope of a simple TV show. In fact, it's tied up in a much larger social/cultural reality that has to do with women in leadership positions in general. Much though many men don't like to hear the "same old tiresome feminist rhetoric," (and I apologize for getting into it here) the truth is that there are still a lot of barriers for women to overcome, and they don't always get equal treatment when it comes to leadership opportunities. Believe me, having worked in the emergency services for 20 years, I can say with authority that prejudice (conscious or not) is alive and well in male-dominated fields. Are things getting better? Sure, absolutely, but there's still a battle being waged by women in those fields every day.

It is disheartening for some of us to see reality so accurately portrayed on our favorite TV show. Cam is not as qualified to lead SG-1 as Sam. That's the bottom line for many of us, and I don't think even you would argue the point. So why isn't she given command? That gets into all those social and cultural issues.

I think it's a business decision because the suits in control know that a large portion of the audience would have serious issues with a female commanding an elite military unit responsible for saving the world on a routine basis. Regardless of the storyline logic, regardless of AT's popularity and talent, regardless of the ethical implications, (and probably regardless of AT's availability at the beginning of the season) it's a cultural thing, and if they wanted to continue SG-1, they knew they'd have to find a male lead (read leader) to replace RDA.

Think about it. Let's say in Season 2, O'Neill decided to retire or take another position at the Pentagon or something. In his absence, another Colonel with less field experience was placed in charge of SG-1. Later, O'Neill decided to return to the SGC. Do you think there would be an uproar if he was suddenly forced to serve under Mister New Guy as 2IC of his former team? Of course there would have been. It wouldn't have happened. It's a scenario that the writers, the suits, and the audience wouldn't have even contemplated.

So, basically, from my perspective, in the grand scheme of TV-land, the reason why Cam has command instead of Sam all boils down to the fact that Sam's a woman. It's the explanation that makes the most sense at this point.

And, while I understand the choices being made, frankly, to me, it still sucks.

That said, I think that TPTB knew that they were caught between a rock and a hard place. They're not stupid, and they knew that people like me (um, career women who have personal experience with gender-based inequities in the workplace) would not be happy. Perhaps, they were not happy about it, either. I'd like to think that. I mean, they've given us the wonderful character of Sam so far; they've given us Weir. So they tried to downplay the leadership issue, pussy-foot around it. I think they've been very sensitive to the issue actually, but in attempting to deal with it in an "acceptable-to-everyone" manner, they've made some decisions that have only made it worse. For example, I appreciate that they apparently didn't want Sam to continue in "yes, sir," "no, sir" subordinate mode, but the result is that she looks even more slighted by having to serve under Cam who is so clearly "the new guy" with less experience.

Personally, I'd rather see Sam clearly outranked by her commanding officer than have her serving as 2IC to someone who is so prone to making novice mistakes. Speaking as someone who understands the desire for career advancement as a woman in a man's world, I can say, with a fair degree of certainty, that Sam would perceive this as a step back, and it doesn't make sense for her character, at least not with the information that has been given to us so far. The writers could yet correct this problem, and there are ways they could make it believable. They just haven't done it yet.

You're right, though, Sam doesn't seem to be taking orders from Cam. The team doesn't have a clearly defined leader. But that's because Sam should be the leader, and she should be giving the orders, and many people (including the writers, apparently) can see that. Okay, so maybe you're right and SG-1 doesn't need a clearly defined leader. Everything you say about their experience is correct. Sure, the writers can probably make this work.

It's the principle of the thing that gets to me, you know? It's an injustice in our society, and -so far- it's an injustice on this show, too.

Fabulous post, as so many have already said. Strix varia---it would be great if you would be willing to put this post also in the Mitchell/Carter rank thread where there are so many other thoughtful comments from Samandans.

I guess I just am in denial on this issue. I really liked the last two episodes in terms of the storylines---I actually really cared about what was happening! And I really thought sam might not be in them very much, and to my pleasant surprise, she played a big part in both episodes! So I was happy for these reasons, and for some of the interactions between the characters (better than what we have had in earlier episodes). So, I tried to ignore the Mitchell--this is SG1 leader---comment. And looked at it more from AD's point of view.

It was great just to enjoy the show again, and it gives me some hope for the second half---but---yes the whole leadership issue is a cop out==and Strix explained why so well.

I have NO DOUBT that Sam/AT could have remained leader and this would not have been a problem for the show---in fact it is hurting the show by not allowing her to be the official leader. Logic dictates that she should still be leader (at least what they have given us so far) and AT is very popular and could carry this position with great ease. Like AD, I don't really SEE Mitchell leading, but still this doesn't deny that someone (TPTB or the suits, or both) felt that they NEEDED to make BB the official leader. I would have hoped we were past this crap, but we're not. As soon as I heard that BB was on board, my heart sank because I knew that it meant the inevitable. Then, hearing that BB would play a Lt. Col---another stab (and the internet online fans reacted all over about this news and what it meant for Sam being leader). And then once I heard, not suprisingly, that BB had top billing, my heart sank even further---the nail in the coffin. I've been vacilating from being really angry to being resigned ever since.

In season 8, I really think TPTB never ever really intended to write Sam as SG1 leader---at least very little. They wanted the stories revolving around RDA even with his limited time---too bad because the audience would have been thrilled to actually see our team go off world with Sam as leader. And they figured that season 8 was their last, so why not have Sam "lead." Little did they know that they would once again get renewed. Too bad they couldn't follow through and continue with Sam as leader once AT returned.


Several Samandans have asked really good questions to JM about the leadership issue -- I don't know if he can really respond, but I"m glad you asked him about it.

And I think I'll go ahead and follow Jerin and Skydiver's lead, and write an email -- it can't hurt and at least let them know that fans are upset about this issue and why.

[Skydiver]

ok, how about taking a positive spin

what has been your favorite sam moment in s9?

what part have had you rewinding the vcr and checking it out again?

[Skydiver]

ok, sorry bout this AD, cause i know it woulda been a good thing for you

Sam didn't have to dress up all, provocatively like vala did.

she was permitted to keep her self-respect

[Agent_Dark]

ok, sorry bout this AD, cause i know it woulda been a good thing for you

Sam didn't have to dress up all, provocatively like vala did.

she was permitted to keep her self-respect

Dagnabbit!
Well if you've been keeping up with some of the spoilers,

Spoiler:

at least there's Off the Grid to look forward too

[Skydiver]

i tend to avoid the explicit spoilers. teh eps tend to be more enjoyable if i can keep my expectations low

[chocdoc]

ok, how about taking a positive spin

what has been your favorite sam moment in s9?

what part have had you rewinding the vcr and checking it out again?

Some of my favorite sam moments in season 9---spoilers below:














In Bablyon---when she says, where the hell is Mitchell?! Yes I rewound just for this. Would she really say this if he were the leader?


I actually rewatched all of Prototype and the Fourth Horseman. I really liked seeing Sam throughout these episodes. Specifics:

-Sam ignoring Dr. Lee---their whole interaction was fun to me. I like that she kept Dr. Lee up all night! She would.

-Mitchell telling Sam that he used 5% of his brain and Carter 10%---I liked her smile at him.

-I like her leading SG5---leading younger men who respect her.

-I liked that she did not take orders from Mitchell, but rather said what they must do to study the black hole and then she gave orders to the other soldiers who were assisting her.

-I liked her concern over Orlin when Lam said that he is suffering brain damage. AT is just a darn good actress. Nice set up for part II for the challenge that awaits her.

-I liked the scene when Sam met up with Daniel and Teal'c and they worked together as a team in prototype---I liked when she said that I came here because I have an idea. Sam ALWAYS has ideas.

-oh big favorite--she gets the program to work so that the team can go to the planet where they discover KhaleK (sp?) -- she smiles when it works and Landry nods. She is pleased with herself.

[Abby Sheppard]

sam is the greatest......I admire her so much that I wrote my monologue for my hsc about her......I hoped that i did her justice as i tried to stay true to her character and say what she would say........I had a section where she let out all her feelings about Jack and I felt what I was saying so much that I started crying........I love sam even though she be only a character......To me she is real and she will never die as long as I remember, even if the show stops.

[Skydiver]

welcome to samanda abby!!

I too liked sam and Lee. lee when he was first introduced, was such a putz!! yes, he was to be the antagonist in Paradise Lost, but i'm glad that he redeemed himself.

and i like how he allows sam to lighten up a bit. It's like we get to see another side of sam, less the soldier, very much less the second in command and very much the scientist.

she's also a leader amongst the scientists because she can motivate and lead them. 'this is what needs to be done and this is how we do it'...yet she seems to have lost some of her tunnel vision. she knows how to give them direction and let them go. not micromanaging, yet keeping enough of a tab on things to know what's going on

[chocdoc]

welcome to samanda abby!!

I too liked sam and Lee. lee when he was first introduced, was such a putz!! yes, he was to be the antagonist in Paradise Lost, but i'm glad that he redeemed himself.

and i like how he allows sam to lighten up a bit. It's like we get to see another side of sam, less the soldier, very much less the second in command and very much the scientist.

she's also a leader amongst the scientists because she can motivate and lead them. 'this is what needs to be done and this is how we do it'...yet she seems to have lost some of her tunnel vision. she knows how to give them direction and let them go. not micromanaging, yet keeping enough of a tab on things to know what's going on

Great point, and I think this is an example of how Sam has matured over the years as a scientist, and as I would expect her to mature.

After not having Sam for five episodes, I have to say I really missed her technobabble. I was comforted by it when she returned! I hadn't realized how much I had missed it until Sam was not there to do it, and she does it with such confidence.

You know, I really like my scifi to have science in it!! Well we see a bit more of that now that Sam has returned.

[Agent_Dark]

Rofl, Forever just linked me to this wallpaper

[Osiris-RA]

Rofl, Forever just linked me to this wallpaper

[snicker] I guess in this day and age, angels would have to start packin'.

[binkpmmc]

although i'm not passionate about either pov, sam being in command or cam being in command, i do think that the 'major mitchell being groomed' would have been a good way to go.

who says that the 'male lead' has to be the boss?????

And i agree, i think i see skiffy's fine meddling hand

Personally, i don't think a petition will make much difference. they're so easily faked that they are dismissed.

however, snail mail or e-mail does get listened to

I"m going to take jerin's idea and drop skiffy a line. just to tell them pretty much what i posted here, why DO they have to be so old school that they think that a show MUST have a male lead????

the e-mail addy she gave i'm going to post here again
'[email protected]'

even if they don't care about teh bb/at situation, it can't hurt to drop a line or two in support of our queen now can it

Well here's what I just sent - how long do yu think I should continue to hold my breath?

Dear Mr. Edelman:

I am writing to hopefully get an answer to a question:

why is a person (person (a)) that:
(1) has never seen a Stargate,
(2) has never been through a Stargate,
(3) has exactly zero, zip, nada, off-world experience,
(4) has never seen an alien, friend or foe,
(5) has no experience with off-world ground combat,
(6) has no experience with alien technology or science,
(7) has no experience with alien diplomacy,
(8) has no experience with alien languages and is shown to be wholly unqualified for the position,

made leader of the elite SG1 while the person (person (b)) that:

(1) has 8 plus years of knowledge on all things Stargate,
(2) has been through the Stargate hundreds of times over 8 years,
(3) has 8 years of off-world experience,
(4) has seen, dealt with in great detail and even killed, alien foes and made and dealt with alien friends for 8 years,
(5) has 8 years of off-world ground combat experience,
(6) has 8 years of experience with alien technology and science,
(7) has 8 years of experience with alien diplomacy,
(8) has 8 years of experience with alien language through a teammate

all while was serving as 2IC of the elite SG team for 7 years and as its wholly qualified and competent leader for 1 year, is demoted to 2IC of that very same team in favor of person (a) without any plausible or credible explanation? Is it seriously because someone there felt the silly need to have a male lead (person a) so the female lead (person b), is demoted, insulted and damaged? I can find no other reason that doesn't lack credibility, but then again the male lead reason lacks credibility in spades.

Please know that you, Sci-Fi, Ms. Hammer and those in charge of this show have done a disservice to the character of Lt. Colonel Samantha Carter, women in the military and women in general. In addition, you have summarily damaged any credibility you may have had with many fans of this show.

The courtesy of a response would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much for your time.

[majorsal]

i love sam.

i love amanda.

i just wanted to say it... it makes me feel better.



sally

[majorsal]

He makes an excellent fourth on the team. It's just that he ought to be Major Mitchell. Honestly, I'd have preferred them to go the route of SG-1 grooming Mitchell for eventual command of the team. Like it or not, Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c have been doing this for a long time. Eventually, someone else is going to have to take over.

the writers timidness on the sam-mitchell-who's in command issue is even making mitchell look less than he should be. i really did not like it in fourth horseman when

Spoiler:

daniel yelled 'new guy!' to him. i thought it was disrespectful.

is mitchell in command? then let him 'command'.

is sam-daniel-teal'c commanding 'with' mitchell? then state so, instead of giving hints here and there. it undermines mitchell's character.

i didn't realize how much it hurts mitchell as much as it hurts sam with this lack of clear leadership. of course, my heart goes with sam, seeing as she's my fave character, but i feel for mitchell and mitchell fans because they're getting shafted too.

It would have been a great character journey for the Mitchell character to have to taken, and it would have given the character something unique, something that was entirely his. Right now, he's just flailing about.

he is. and it's the wacked out and inconsistant writing. he's snarky then timid then wise cracking then quiet then can't be serious to super serious... and you're feeling no real connection to him because we don't know his motivations and/or character enough. i fell for mitchell in avalon(s). *that's* that mitchell i want to see all the time.


sally