Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Uber]

Okay, okay. Tsaxlady and Skydiver have talked me off the ledge and I'm now reconsidering my original assessment of Babylon.

As a Cam development story, it was fair...incredibly predictable (I doubt anyone was actually surprised when

Spoiler:

we learned the guy training Cam was the brother of the man he shot)

and the

Spoiler:

drugging idea is as old or older than Star Trek Amok Time

...but inasfar as we now know Cam has more depth than a puddle, fine.

I was happy to see take charge Sam at the beginning but all that does is remind me that the leadership issue is still an issue...not at all resolved in my little world. Sure, if Cam were building a team of newbies, fine...but we're talking Sam, Teal'c and Daniel...and it's personally clear to moi that Sam's the one who should be in charge because she's the one with offworld experience and FCOL, she's earned it. Plus there's that nagging character issue of why would someone who lead a team be willing to return as a 2nd...little things like that.

All in all, they should never have had the episode The Ties that Bind and should have moved things around a bit to show Babylon earlier...because I think a Cam development story was more important than there little romp through the stargates in that it would have established Cam's character a little more...though I still see him as just a member of the team who's there to "learn from the best"...

So IMHO, Babylon should have been earlier, The Ties that Bind should NEVER have been aired and this episode should have been a "team working together building chemistry" episode...because right now, I see no team...just a group of people with matching patches.

[chocdoc]

Okay, okay. Tsaxlady and Skydiver have talked me off the ledge and I'm now reconsidering my original assessment of Babylon.

As a Cam development story, it was fair...incredibly predictable (I doubt anyone was actually surprised when

Spoiler:

we learned the guy training Cam was the brother of the man he shot)

and the

Spoiler:

drugging idea is as old or older than Star Trek Amok Time

...but inasfar as we now know Cam has more depth than a puddle, fine.

I was happy to see take charge Sam at the beginning but all that does is remind me that the leadership issue is still an issue...not at all resolved in my little world. Sure, if Cam were building a team of newbies, fine...but we're talking Sam, Teal'c and Daniel...and it's personally clear to moi that Sam's the one who should be in charge because she's the one with offworld experience and FCOL, she's earned it. Plus there's that nagging character issue of why would someone who lead a team be willing to return as a 2nd...little things like that.

All in all, they should never have had the episode The Ties that Bind and should have moved things around a bit to show Babylon earlier...because I think a Cam development story was more important than there little romp through the stargates in that it would have established Cam's character a little more...though I still see him as just a member of the team who's there to "learn from the best"...

So IMHO, Babylon should have been earlier, The Ties that Bind should NEVER have been aired and this episode should have been a "team working together building chemistry" episode...because right now, I see no team...just a group of people with matching patches.

Sadly, I completely agree with you. Last night's episode was a sad reminder for me as well about the question of Sam's leadership situation. Mitchell still didn't feel like the leader---Sam did. She was very competent, and as others have mentioned elsewhere, knows how to hold a gun better! Sam still should be in charge, and Babylon reaffirmed this for me. And frankly the leadership issue is still not clear to me.

I'm not sure what to say about the show right now. I think I have to be patient, but I'm afraid that we will see very few actual team episodes. We need more character relationship development (devlepment BETWEEN the characters themselves) and we need it now. We need more about how these characters relate to one another and why they care for each other. If we have that, then we can care for the situations they are in. The SGA episode last night had that old SG1 team feeling.

I'm starting to think that if the writers want to do the daniel/vala show, go ahead, and let Sam be a regular over on SGA. The Daniel/Vala show would have no appeal to me, but having Sam among characters who care about each other would. I'm even not impressed with teal'c right now---he's either not in it or acts the same way each time. In season 8 he had a personality. And I'm reading some positive comments about Mitchell---I'm trying to like him, and I sort of do actually---he's just not wow to me. (Okay I admit, I'm wondering why BB would get top billing---he's a good actor, but certainly not better than our three originals). I think I will like him more when he is tied to the other three characters.

I'm an optimist at heart--so I'm hoping for two good episodes next week.

Helpful comments on the Sam-lite dilemma. I too think the writers were trying to give AT a break--which they should, and I think that is important. I am hoping that in the second half of the season, we will see the typical amount of Sam. But who knows---maybe Chopingal is right--we'll have to wait until season 10 for that.

[Qasim]

Hmph Babylon

Spoiler:

Well I can count the number of times we saw Sam on one hand - what were TPTB thinking?

[alexia_star_2002]

I agree with chocdoc, Mitchell just does not feel liek a leader, Sam does. More Sam, more sam.

[Dani76]

I agree with those of you who said that something doesn’t feel right, that it is off somehow.

Spoilers
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I couldn’t quite figure it out first, but IMHO, the problem is that the chemistry is missing. I don’t know if it is because RDA left and new characters (and thus actors) have to be integrated or if it is because of the writer(s) this year – might well be a combination – but something is wrong.

What’s missing the most is the team. There is no team, doesn’t matter that they switched patches; it’s just not there. I’ve been really patient but we only have two episodes left.
The first five eps: okay Amanda wasn’t there, so they couldn’t really get the team vibe going. But they could have developed some kind of relationships between Mitchell and Daniel and Mitchell and Teal’c. And they could have included Sam by just talking more about her.
Then Sam was finally back (Beachhead, which was awesome ), so they had one episode to show that she wouldn’t just simply come back. That was the best episode IMHO so far. The team was together, even though it was not officially a team yet. Sam was not in the middle of it but I was okay with that given all the circumstances. They were fighting together and thinking together. And I really liked the infirmary scene: the other 3 were worried about Daniel. That’s what it’s all about – the team vibe.
Then we had EDM – and even though I really liked Sam and the patch scene in that episode, it was somehow not as good as Beachhead. The team was split up; there was no real team feeling there.

Okay, so I kept hoping and waited for Babylon. I am not saying that Babylon is a bad episode considered on its own (kinda reminded me of The last Samurai), but it was not the episode I had been hoping for. It probably was a good ep to develop Mitchell’s character (finally is all I can say) but it was not an SG-1 episode.
I totally agree and can deal with that it’s a good thing to let Amanda ease back into things and if that means that we won’t see as much of her on screen, I am okay with that. But her time and actually everybody’s time could have been used wiser.
I was looking for some concern by the team, which would have shown us that our 3 heroes care about Mitchell and consider him a part of the team. But instead they kept questioning that captured guy and arguing about the Ori. I don’t know, but I got bored pretty fast.
You know, Babylon could have been just as great an episode as Conversion. Conversion was about Sheppard, no question there. But we saw his team worry about him, trying to find a way to save him, and I especially liked it when they wanted to stay in the infirmary a bit longer. That’s the old SG-1 vibe that I have been missing so much lately. And it’s not like Teyla or Rodney had a lot more screen time than say Sam and Daniel yesterday, it was just used wiser.

As to Sam, sure I love the episodes that focus on her, but there are also a lot of episodes where she is not in the center of it and they still are great Sam episodes. You know what I mean, it's one thing to have less of Sam but it's another thing if the short time we get to see her is wasted.

I don’t know, all I am trying to say is that SG-1 just feels wrong this year. Somehow it feels cold this year, it doesn’t have this special something that I’ve come to love about the show. For me the best thing was always the team and how they interacted with each other They just had so much chemistry going between the 4 characters.
The team is what got me watching in the first place, Sam is my favorite character – and it’s both missing this season. That's all I am saying.

P.S. Sorry for the rant, it’s kind of a mess, too. Just trying to get a grip on things.

[Simhavaktra]

Captions?

"Cameron McDowell Mitchell!! What did I tell you about getting yourself shot during a mission!!!"

[Qasim]

Spoiler:

What’s missing the most is the team. There is no team, doesn’t matter that they switched patches; it’s just not there. I’ve been really patient but we only have two episodes left.
Then Sam was finally back (Beachhead, which was awesome ), so they had one episode to show that she wouldn’t just simply come back. That was the best episode IMHO so far. The team was together, even though it was not officially a team yet. Sam was not in the middle of it but I was okay with that given all the circumstances. They were fighting together and thinking together. And I really liked the infirmary scene: the other 3 were worried about Daniel. That’s what it’s all about – the team vibe.
Then we had EDM – and even though I really liked Sam and the patch scene in that episode, it was somehow not as good as Beachhead. The team was split up; there was no real team feeling there.

It probably was a good ep to develop Mitchell’s character (finally is all I can say) but it was not an SG-1 episode.

I agree it did leave me feeling a bit empty *is sad *

[Qasim]

"Dont they know its impolite to shoot at a lady"

[Skydiver]

speaking of the teamyness, i had an issue with mitch in the beginning, strolling along, snapping his gum.

seemed rather unprofessional and i have to wonder if mitch isn't still suffering from a bit of marty sue syndrome.

remember 'the other guys' and felger? how it played into felger's fantasy and was so over the top that many thought that the whole episode was a dream?

elements of this still carry over onto cam. his actions in the very beginning are very 'gee, look mom, i getta play with the cool kids'

I liked him in the rest of it, but that very beginning was just a bit too flip

[Qasim]

speaking of the teamyness, i had an issue with mitch in the beginning, strolling along, snapping his gum.

elements of this still carry over onto cam. his actions in the very beginning are very 'gee, look mom, i getta play with the cool kids'

True I have only watched the ep once but did anyone get the feeling that Sam was a bit sidelined in that scene?

[ForeverSg1]

My take on last night's Sam-lite episode. Yes, like many others have said, I think the lack of Sam is very much due to the fact that writers are trying to take Amanda's new role as a mother into consideration and to allow her time with Olivia. However, I've also been looking at the fact that they [the writers] have been extremely ambiguous thus far at really giving a lot of detail about what has happened between the end of Season 8 and now. We've been given hints and glimpses about each character, but we really haven't been told anything substantial. We still don't know why they all left SG-1, nor why Sam or Jack took on the new positions. Personally, I actually considered the promotion to head of R&D to be a wonderful career move for Sam and I honestly can't image why should would take a step backwards in her career to be 2IC on SG-1 again. It really doesn't make any sense to me. But you see, I think all the vagueness is just the writers way of not really wanting to put anything in stone so that at any given moment they can just change the storyline to fit their needs. We can't hold them to their word for anything this season, because really they haven't told us anything.

I'd like to believe that the reason we didn't see Sam much in tonight's episode is because Sam never stepped down from her position in R&D. She is still very much a part of R&D and that she's just doing it from the SGC now. It's also one of the only reasons I will believe that she wasn't worried about taking a step backwards in her career to be a part of SG-1; because in my mind she didn't. She's just adding her skill and experience to help out with SG-1 when it's necessary. Therefore there will be episodes throughout the season that are Sam-light, like Babylon, and I will just assume she is busy dealing with all of her other duties at the SGC.

And as far as the leadership issue being resolved, I honestly do not see that happening at all this season. I do not see SG-1 working as a team like they did when Jack was in command nor do I see Mitchell ever truly taking on the lead position like Jack did. The relationships are all different now. Teal'c is no longer the Sholva with nowhere else to go. He does not hold the same sense of loyalty and respect he did for O'Neill. Daniel is no longer the green and naive civilian member of the team, nor is Sam the bright-eyed subordinate. Teal'c, Daniel and Sam are all extremely experienced in Gate travel. They are a well-oiled machine. They know exactly what to expect from one another and they know how the other is going to react before he/she even makes a move. I don't care how experienced a leader Mitchell may have been before he requested the position on SG-1, the banter between Teal'c/Mitchell last night just proved that to me that Mitchell is green and not really the leader of SG-1. The fact that Teal'c had to even tell Mitchell to be quiet was enough proof for me. This is all just a new adventure for Mitchell. He doesn't really get it. He doesn't truly see the threat that is out there when he steps through the Stargate like Sam, Daniel and Teal'c do. He hasn't lived and experienced the nightmares. So far, his character seems a bit like a mixture of Jack/Jonas characters. Wide-eyed, exuberance with a touch of sarcastic one-liners.

I'm hoping for more from Sam in the second half of the season. However, from what I read in spoilers, I really don't expect much more than three or four good Sam episodes this year and I really don't expect to see anything in terms of character development.

[Uber]

I'm going to go way OT and ask you all if you know anything about the Season 8 DVDs...most specifically when it comes to the Region 1 DVDs and if they will have the audio commentaries.

I ordered the Australian ones because all I ever got from Agent Dark was how great the R4 SG-1 DVDs are...but there are only FIVE commentaries for the entire season. FIVE.

Now Region 2 DVDs seem to fair better...and yet as I understand it they don't even include the commentaries from Citizen Joe or Threads. THREADS??!??? No audio commentary for arguably one of the most important episodes of the series???? THE episode that tied up several long standing MAJOR story arcs???? That's just wrong on so many levels.

So what I need to know is...A. Will Region 1 DVDs have audio commentaries and B. If yes, will these audio commentaries include Citizen Joe and Threads????

There's a third question here too...C...If there are audio commentaries coming for Citizen Joe and Threads, is Amanda doing either or did she just do Covenant's? I was stunned to find out she didn't do the one for Gemini(!!!) but I might be able to get over it if she does the one for Threads.

[ChevronSeven]

speaking of the teamyness, i had an issue with mitch in the beginning, strolling along, snapping his gum.

seemed rather unprofessional and i have to wonder if mitch isn't still suffering from a bit of marty sue syndrome.

remember 'the other guys' and felger? how it played into felger's fantasy and was so over the top that many thought that the whole episode was a dream?

elements of this still carry over onto cam. his actions in the very beginning are very 'gee, look mom, i getta play with the cool kids'

I liked him in the rest of it, but that very beginning was just a bit too flip

I completely agree. It seems as if he being aloof at the entire situation, like a child wanting to know "are we there yet?" Jack would've been annoyed a bit, but he would of at least been aware of his surroundings. And he wouldn't have continued talking when Teal'c heard something.

Sam, on the other hand, knew exactly how to handle this situation. I wonder if the higher ups would have pressured Hammond or even Jack to declare someone MIA. Seems awful quick for them to do that to Mitchell.

[Qasim]

Heres some screencaps:

[SamFan31]

speaking of the teamyness, i had an issue with mitch in the beginning, strolling along, snapping his gum.

seemed rather unprofessional and i have to wonder if mitch isn't still suffering from a bit of marty sue syndrome.

remember 'the other guys' and felger? how it played into felger's fantasy and was so over the top that many thought that the whole episode was a dream?

elements of this still carry over onto cam. his actions in the very beginning are very 'gee, look mom, i getta play with the cool kids'

I liked him in the rest of it, but that very beginning was just a bit too flip

Sky, you beat me to it, but here is the post I just put together before you posted.

I know I’m asking for a beating, but….

This is a totally superficial comment about CM, but something about him really bothered me in Babylon. It seemed unprofessional that he was a swaggering, gum chewing wise guy who apparently insists on wearing his cap backwards (this all from the opening scenes). I know that’s silly, but given the ultra-professional quality of those he “commands” it only made him appear child-like and amateurish.