Vala Open Forum

[Deevil]

Let's try some gender reversal. If a male character (let's have him played by an unknown actor, to fit with the scenario Sky's trying to develop) were added to the team and he spent all his time making unwanted sexual advances towards Sam, scheming to get himself "bound" to her, showing up in her bed, cracking lewd jokes, stealing, conniving and generally degrading Sam at every available opportunity. Do you think the audience would laugh it off or do you think that said character would be drawn & quartered and his head stuck on a pike?

Umm, is it just me or are you all but discribing McKay here? I remember hi, being more then forward with Sam, and rude, and making extreme amounts of innuendo.

Sam seemed to handle that well, as did most of her fans.

Same with Daniel, he's also handling it well.

[scarimor]

Umm, is it just me or are you all but discribing McKay here? I remember hi, being more then forward with Sam, and rude, and making extreme amounts of innuendo.

Sam seemed to handle that well, as did most of her fans.

Same with Daniel, he's also handling it well.

Writing a character dealing with another who is giving them a rough time like that can give the character some room to play off it. One of Sam's best moments is her snark to citrus-allergic Rodney to "Go suck a lemon".

Because Vala is very much the one-liner part of the Daniel/Vala dynamic, Daniel usually gets to play the foil, so he doesn't get much of a chance to compete with Vala in the same way that Sam did with with Rodney by the time she'd had enough of it. That may be why some viewers feel that the relationship emasculates him - because they don't see him giving as good as he gets in that repartee department. However, he does deal with it forcefully in his own way - I don't get a sense that she gets the better of him by embarrassing him or anything like that. Daniel and Vala seem equally matched in the force of character area.

[Formerhost]

Heh. In TV land they'd have Sam punch hypothetical-male-Val in the nose if he did to Sam what Vala does to Daniel. They can't have Daniel do that to Vala so easily.

The Vala hitting on Daniel thing hasn't bothered me, because he seems to deal with it adequately, and it looks as though she's realised that particular string to her bow isn't working with him. The only time I've felt the sexual innuendo misfired was in Crusade, when Vala commented how ironic it was that she was in Daniel's pants because he'd been trying to get into her's - the presumed intent to write something funny fell flat because Daniel hadn't. And had Ben Browder played Cameron finding it "not funny" a little straighter, that scene might have come across more poignant.

Actually Vala didn't say how ironic it was that she was Daniel's pants, the exact quote is:

"VALA
(chuckling)
It's funny, isn't it. Daniel always wanted to get in my pants, and now I'm in his.
MITCHELL
Oh, that's not funny.
VALA
Hmm?
MITCHELL
He can't defend himself."

There's big difference between "ironic" and "funny", it completely changes the meaning and tone of what was said. And for me, personally this moment was really funny, it makes me laugh every time I watch "Crusade", and I've just finished watching it for perhaps 50th time...

[ParadoxRealities]

Why does she have to be a good example? Where does this idea come from that every female we see on TV has to positively influence someone?

Honestly, she is a woman who has been to hell and back and has learnt to defend herself in the only way she knows how. She controls people and situations by her outward appearance, and it works for her. But she is selfless, and she never actively attempts to hurt someone. It happens through her actions, and she is very self motivated - but this can change.

exactly, that's what i WANT to see. i don't mind vala not being a role model, there need to be characters that aren't. mayboure's not a role model, felger, coombs, mckay (then), dr. lee (now), ba'al, etc. but how many kids say they want to be like mckay? or felger? they don't look good because of bad actions. mckay was despised for his sexism and arrogance. felger's a total skrew-up. vala is a con artist, but people seem to ignore that. i think she's a great idea for a character--former host, hell-and-back, want's to be good, bound to daniel by outside forces and is now recovering. but she IS a con artist, and that doesn't, imo, change overnight. while i'd love to see her change, i don't like how she is so readily excepted into the SGC. she thinks of herself first, and people like that can't really be trusted to help you in the long run, especially since we really don't know enough about her to know all her goals.

As for Daniel being a laughing stock... how? He was being Daniel, who Daniel is. But to begin with, he didn't have any of his original team to temper his usual behaviour and thus he fell into her trap. So, it's Daniel being Daniel.

not sure what you're saying, but it seems like you've figured out a reason for you, kudos. i just don't like seeing daniel sexually harassed (though oddly enough, many daniel fans do).

Another thing I also don't understand is why people think with Vala being on the show, it is suddenly going to take away the undefined something from Sam.

Interestingly enough, they are 2 very differennt characters, and Vala could never replace her.

honestly, i don't know why its happening either, i always thought sam was important and valued in her own right. but with people (many of them vala fans) talking about sam needing to be written off, and TPTB kissing valas feet as they push the big3 to the background, and not knowing what to do with sam, i draw conclusions.

[Skydiver]

What I *do* find amusing is that I've seen some of the very same people who've attacked the Sam Carter character saying her behavior is "an embarrassment to professional women everywhere," call Vala one of the most delightful and refreshing characters they've seen in a long time. They apparently have no problem with her behavior because she doesn't have a Ph.D.? (as far as we know), which really doesn't stop her from being a "working" woman...

yes, there is that very fun double standard as well. Vala can use sex to get what she wants and it's fun and ok...but Sam is held up as a slut when she dresses in a sun dress to meet pete and then sleeps with him. At the same time, vala attempts to do the same with daniel, wears a lot less clothes and jumps into his bed, but again, that's ok because it's fun.

For many folks, the rallying cry to get sam off the show is because she acts disgraceful, lets her emotions rule her actions, falls for guys, etc. but when vala does much the same, well that' s ok, because she's fun.

In many ways, vala behaves far, far worse than sam ever has....yet vala's misbehaviors are excused because, again, she's fun.

On another show, she'd be a decent enough character. But, to me at least, she does not fit into this show. She's being crammed in with a crowbar and a can of WD-40 because, well she's fun. and we want to have fun so we're gonna have fun if it's the last thing we do.

I think Vala would be an OK character for another show. She doesn't fit into Stargate, IMO, but then maybe S10 will be changed even more so that the characters are suited to Vala and fit in with her.

which is likely what's gonna happen. the show will continue to be sexed up and dumbed down to fit into the vala stereotype and the image that skiffy et al seem to have of fans....that we're stupid and shallow and want nothing more than 'fun'.

[Dani347]

but how many kids say they want to be like mckay? or felger?

How many kids are saying they want to be like Vala? Seriously, are there kids going around saying they want to be just like Vala when they grow up?

vala is a con artist, but people seem to ignore that. i think she's a great idea for a character--former host, hell-and-back, want's to be good, bound to daniel by outside forces and is now recovering. but she IS a con artist, and that doesn't, imo, change overnight. while i'd love to see her change, i don't like how she is so readily excepted into the SGC. she thinks of herself first, and people like that can't really be trusted to help you in the long run, especially since we really don't know enough about her to know all her goals

Okay, that's an interesting view that could bring up some discussion -whether or not she was accpted too easily and can she be truated- but I don't see why it's a problem that other people like the character.

honestly, i don't know why its happening either, i always thought sam was important and valued in her own right. but with people (many of them vala fans) talking about sam needing to be written off, and TPTB kissing valas feet as they push the big3 to the background, and not knowing what to do with sam, i draw conclusions.

Okay you say "it's happening" as if it's in progress right now, or more accurately, it was in season 9. But, when you explain, it sounds like it would be more accurate to say it will happen. Vala has not taken anything away from Sam. She hasn't had a chance. They've only had two episodes together. As for why you think it might/will happen, well, I can see if you think Sam/Daniel/Teal'c have been pushed to the background (something I don't see myself) why that might worry you. But, do you think Daniel or Teal'c might lose something to Mitchell? But, why does it matter that some people are saying they want Sam written off? There are also fans who still love Sam, and some fans who hate Vala. And despite the "kissing Vala's feet" that you see, I don't think tptb are sitting around saying, "hey, there are some fans who want Sam written out of the show. Okey-dokey." If they take whatever it is that people fear they'll take from Sam, I don't think it will have anything to do with some fans wanting her to be written off.

[Skydiver]

Okay you say "it's happening" as if it's in progress right now, or more accurately, it was in season 9. But, when you explain, it sounds like it would be more accurate to say it will happen. Vala has not taken anything away from Sam. She hasn't had a chance. They've only had two episodes together. As for why you think it might/will happen, well, I can see if you think Sam/Daniel/Teal'c have been pushed to the background (something I don't see myself) why that might worry you.

well, if you look at the spoilers thus far for s10, you will notice something.

vala
vala
vala
vala
vala
vala
vala
vala
vala
vala
vala
vala
vala


the only mention of teal'c is in an epsiode that has the requisite jafffa input, mitch is mentioned a few times and sam maybe once

so, basically, going by what skiffy is releasing, if ya ain't a fan of vala, don't bother to tune in, cause she apparantly, gonna be so much a part of the show that she supplants Mitch.

So does it look to me like the 'big 3' are getting sidelined? Oh yeah. in a big way. Or at least two of them.

[ParadoxRealities]

How many kids are saying they want to be like Vala? Seriously, are there kids going around saying they want to be just like Vala when they grow up?

feels desensitizing to me. if it doesn't to you, good. i hope its not. maybe (probably) its more that i'm annoyed about how readily she's been excepted, when, despite her (possible) wish to be good, right now, she's not.

Okay, that's an interesting view that could bring up some discussion -whether or not she was accpted too easily and can she be truated- but I don't see why it's a problem that other people like the character.

huh? I’m not sure if this is where the mix up is, but I don’t mind other fans liking the character (unless they’re being OT), I mind the CHARACTERS in the show accepting her so readily. Sorry if that came out wrong.


Sky, you must learn to count. you're one short!

Spoiler:

vala

[Skydiver]

Sky, you must learn to count. you're one short!

Spoiler:

vala

shame on me.

[Dani347]

feels desensitizing to me. if it doesn't to you, good. i hope its not. maybe (probably) its more that i'm annoyed about how readily she's been excepted, when, despite her (possible) wish to be good, right now, she's not.

I'm confused. What feels desensitizing?

huh? I’m not sure if this is where the mix up is, but I don’t mind other fans liking the character (unless they’re being OT), I mind the CHARACTERS in the show accepting her so readily. Sorry if that came out wrong.

No, I just got confused. I think I combined your later remark about the people who want Sam written out and who are Vala fans, and thought those were the same people you were talking about in your earlier remark about Vala being accepted into the SGC so easily. That and you talking about the people who want to be like Vala (still question) and I didn't realize the comment about her acceptance wasn't also talking about real people instead of characters.

[ParadoxRealities]

I'm confused. What feels desensitizing?

like it is/would/could be desensitizing. that vala's negative actions are not seen as negative. again, its probably simply because i don't like how fast the character's got over her con artist thing. but i also see the role model argument.

sorry, i know i'm being confusing. i'm annoyed, and i'm doing a bad job of figuring out why. (i know, i know, bad idea. i was looking at this as more of an open rant thread rather than a formal debate. but i’m wrong, my apologies. i promise to be a good, sensible girl from now on.)

[Skydiver]

maybe it's the fact that her bad behavior is and apparantly will be quickly written off with 'oh, but you see, she means well, so it's all ok.'

the ends don't always justify the means. yet, with vala, it seems that she's to be given a freebie.she's fun, so who cares if she's a liar, cheat and thief?

to paraphrase Sam, even turncoats are never fully trusted...yet it seems that vala is and will be completely trusted. that's a naivete that you wouldn't expect from people that have been around the galaxy a time or ten.

but, again, it all seems to boil down to her being fun....and apparatnly fun people can do anything they want and be accepted

[ParadoxRealities]

maybe it's the fact that her bad behavior is and apparantly will be quickly written off with 'oh, but you see, she means well, so it's all ok.'

the ends don't always justify the means. yet, with vala, it seems that she's to be given a freebie.she's fun, so who cares if she's a liar, cheat and thief?

to paraphrase Sam, even turncoats are never fully trusted...yet it seems that vala is and will be completely trusted. that's a naivete that you wouldn't expect from people that have been around the galaxy a time or ten.

but, again, it all seems to boil down to her being fun....and apparatnly fun people can do anything they want and be accepted

see? that's it exactly! now to stick my fat...head...into a very eloquent post, that leads me to believe that some people will see her as more...realistic that she really is.

[Formerhost]

maybe it's the fact that her bad behavior is and apparantly will be quickly written off with 'oh, but you see, she means well, so it's all ok.'

the ends don't always justify the means. yet, with vala, it seems that she's to be given a freebie.she's fun, so who cares if she's a liar, cheat and thief?

to paraphrase Sam, even turncoats are never fully trusted...yet it seems that vala is and will be completely trusted. that's a naivete that you wouldn't expect from people that have been around the galaxy a time or ten.

but, again, it all seems to boil down to her being fun....and apparatnly fun people can do anything they want and be accepted

Sky, don't forget that Vala really was to hell and back, I hope we're gonna to make a trip back in time to find out more about her pre-Goa'uld past, so I really hope some of you, now so negative about her, will change their minds just a little bit. Was she always a con artist? Definitely not. Was she always a liar? Definitely not. Was she always a thief? Definitely not. And in the extreme situation I would trust her with my life. She already proved in season 9 that in the extreme situations quick and right action is better than talking that something needs to be done. And her heart is definitely in the right place.

[Amanda Eros]

I bet the following will be a reoccuring scene for season ten: