Vala Open Forum

[Gregorius]

They don't wanna recreate Farscape! How do you think of that??? Just because there are two great actors/actress who where on another show together before SG-1??

It's not about the actors, it's about the way they're writing the characters of said actors into the show.

[Shipperahoy]

I don't think that skiffy is trying to recreate Farscape, from what I understand they were trying to get Ben to play the Pete character way back in season 7 so I don't think it's that. That said, I don't think that they are averse to cashing in on the Farscape fans that will come with having both Ben and Claudia to the show. I actually think it's a fairly savvy marketing move. Disgustingly obvious but saavy nonetheless.

As far as Vala goes I actually enjoyed PU when I thought that Vala was just a one-off character. However when she joined the cast for those first 6 episodes the constant manicness and overly sexual aspects of her character felt a bit too over the top for me. I don't mind the sexuality per se it's just that the character felt so one dimensional. It's as though there were no real depth there. At the end of season 9 though I was tremendously impressed with the added facets to the character. Her feelings for her husband, her mixed emotions about her child, and the fact that she seemed to really want to help fight the Ori without any kind of monetary or other benefits to herself all made me see more to her character. And yet she still retained enough cheekiness and irreverance to make her fun. I look forward to seeing what they do with her next season.

[ShadowMaat]

Let's try some gender reversal. If a male character (let's have him played by an unknown actor, to fit with the scenario Sky's trying to develop) were added to the team and he spent all his time making unwanted sexual advances towards Sam, scheming to get himself "bound" to her, showing up in her bed, cracking lewd jokes, stealing, conniving and generally degrading Sam at every available opportunity. Do you think the audience would laugh it off or do you think that said character would be drawn & quartered and his head stuck on a pike?

Sure, a bit of humor is always welcome- but you have to accept it as humor, first. I also see a difference between the occasional joke and a character who's nothing but a joke. Jay Felger was a jokey character. For some he was acceptable, for others he was a nightmare. Either way, he was only in two eps. Can you imagine him being written in as the newest member of SG-1? After all, he's funny, right? You can't object to a bit of humor, can you? And besides, they'd probably change him to give him a little more depth, right?

Granted, Felger and Vala are about as different as it's possible to get, but there are still some parallels that can be drawn and personally, I am loathe to see either character EVER again, never mind as a regular or even recurring character.

From what I've seen, Vala is nothing but a shallow, embarrassing joke and the fact that TPTB are adding her to the line-up for season 10 is just one more reason (and a very big one) not to watch. No amount of so-called "development" can ever change the fact that she is, basically, a joke. Just as much of a joke as Felger. But where Felger contained his fantasies to his imagination, Vala acts them out... and Daniel suffers for it. But it's OK that she's sexually harrassing Daniel because, hey, it's FUNNY.

I dare any of you to try what Vala did at YOUR place of work. See how funny it is then.

[Dani347]

Actually they carry stereotypical portrayals of how men ought to be. Do you know how many young guys want to become like Jack O'Neill, MacGuyver, Dr. Jackson, Der Arnold, <insert names>? All they want to become is how television character/movie stars/sport start are.

That's still different imo, than what Dream is saying. It's one thing if someone decides that Kinsey is really cool and wants to be him. It's another thing if people say that Kinsey is a bad character because he gives people the idea that this is what a politician should be. I've seen some negative characteristics thrown out about Mitchell -he's a bad leader, he's arrogant, he's selfish (I think that was given) he has a need to play hero. Never once have I heard anyone say he's a bad role model. Male characters are created, and people decide on their own if they like them and/or want to emulate them. If they're flawed, no matter how big the flaws are, they aren't accused of being poor role models or of teaching men to be that way. I think female characters should be the same way. Is Vala a rotten character? Then she is, because she is, not because she's setting a bad example for real people.

Vala's character basicly says the following "Girls, if you use your sexuallity and charm you can get anything of a man. It doesn't matter how you harm the guy in the process, as long as you get what you want." And this is a stereotypical portrayal of a woman.

No, it doesn't. It says, Vala gets away with that stuff. If Vala was the only female character on Stargate, or if all them acted like that, then I might agree. But, even though the list is woefully small compared to the males, there's Sam, there was Janet, there have been various female guest stars. I don't for a minute think Vala is supposed to be what women in general are like or some kind of instruction manual for people to follow. I agree there are stereotypical elements in Vala, but I also think there are some people who embody stereotypes. Should tv only have upstanding people or flat out villians? I think that's just as bad as having every character play out a stereotype.

[gatelover12]

In my opinion, Vala has her own moral code.

Spoiler:

We know she stopped the mass murder as soon as she was un-goa'ulded. We've never seen her kill anyone, lying, cheating and stealing are basic survival skills, murder is very rarely necessary. As for the seduction, she's using all of her skills, I see nothing wrong with that.

I believe Vala adds an interesting dynamic to the show, even bringing some humor (albeit a different kind) that has been missing since the heyday of O’Neil. (No offence to BB or Cam, Cameron shines in other areas)

[Aeryn/Vala]

And you're wrong here again... TPTB (not skiffy, but RC, BW, etc.) were after Claudia even when Farscape was still on air. She said in one of her interviews that they were offering her various parts during previous years, just timing was bad and she was busy with something else, and when they offered her Vala's part she was finally available to film "Prometheus Unbound". Plus, pairing Vala with Daniel mainly in season 10 (minus these 4 episodes in which Michael is absent due to the family reasons), doesn't look at all like recreating Farscape. But I'm sure that in these four episodes we'll see Vala interacting with ALL remaining characters, not just Mitchell. If Skiffy really wanted re-create Farscape, they'd ordered another mini-series. Stargate is Stargate. And even with Claudia and Ben on board, will never be Farscape-bis. Forget it.

You're so right! And TPTB tried to seperate the characters Vala and Mitchell so that there aren't so much scenes with them together! Hope to have more scenes with them together in season 10. But it could never be Farscape!! The characters are completely different!!

[Gregorius]

<snip>
Never once have I heard anyone say he's a bad role model. Male characters are created, and people decide on their own if they like them and/or want to emulate them. If they're flawed, no matter how big the flaws are, they aren't accused of being poor role models or of teaching men to be that way. I think female characters should be the same way. Is Vala a rotten character? Then she is, because she is, not because she's setting a bad example for real people.

He is a bad role model, especially due to his enormous flaws and still being made leader of the elite unit of a top secret program. He simply says "If you've got a big enough mouth, everything'll be okay in the end". And for the people decide on their own...please explain how you allow a child to decide on their own And Vala set an extemely bad example (Read Shadow's post )

No, it doesn't. It says, Vala gets away with that stuff. If Vala was the only female character on Stargate, or if all them acted like that, then I might agree. But, even though the list is woefully small compared to the males, there's Sam, there was Janet, there have been various female guest stars.

A small pool to pick from, indeed Another reason why the way Vala behaves is utterly annoying and a bad example (You already said why she's a bad role model/example: She gets away with it). Other than that I think Shadow basicly covered it all.

[Dani347]

But, so far, you're the first person to call Mitchell a bad role model, and in response to me saying that he hasn't been. But, more often than not Vala and Sam are contrasted as one being a Good Role Model, and one being a Bad Role Model.

And, this isn't about whether or not Vala is a good character. But, a character shouldn't have the burden of representing a whole people. And, male characters don't have that burden, for the most part. When I see Vala, I don't see "Women" I see, Vala. So, if Vala does something I find wrong and gets away with it, I'm going to get upset because Vala got away with behavior that I don't like. Not because she's saying that "women" can or should do this. And, despite the lack of females (which is a separate problem) Vala is an anomaly (I think that's the word) among the females. She's so much different than any of the females, that I can't see how she's meant to be the representation of what women should be. To me, she stands or falls on her own.

And, I have read Shadow's post. And, I agree that it's likely if Vala was male, the reception would be different. Read my earlier post as to why people react the way they do to Vala's behavior towards Daniel (which wasn't intending to be condoning the reaction, just explaining it). But, still, that's not the same thing as saying that Vala is a bad character because she teaches girls to act like that. I'm guessing if Vala were male, and was acting that way towards Sam, there would be outrage, there would be anger, but it would be directed as someone treating Sam badly, it would not be directed as a man giving men in general a bad name, or of teaching boys how to behave. At least not to the extent that Vala, a female character is. And, I'm speaking also of my experience of multiple characters on tv shows. The outrage and responsibility for an entire gender falls upon the female much more than the male.

[ShadowMaat]

I don't see Vala as any sort of role model (dear gods above, what a revolting thought!), but I agree with Dani about hating what she does and hating that she "gets away" with it. And I don't buy the "it's OK because it's funny" excuse because as far as I'm concerned it's NOT funny and that is absolutely NO reason for her to "get away" with anything.

[maxbo]

Vala is so different from the average recurring female character that she’s like a breath of fresh air - it’s disappointingly rare that a recurring female character is allowed to be so flawed. It’s a shame that TV shows don't offer more of a variety of female characters and that in the rare instances that they do, that these characters are often met with such hostility. Female characters continue to be retricted to the type of rigid, limiting guidelines that male characters are fortunate enough not to be bound by. For instance, as another poster mentioned, Cameron has been criticized a lot on this board, but no one ever criticized him because he poorly represented men, they just criticized him because they didn't like him and/or his actions.

Although I realize that Vala’s irreverent, end-justifies-the-means (in most cases) attitude is not entertaining to everyone, I don’t understand why some expect this character to carry the burden of representing all women. Vala is Vala, period and she should be liked (or disliked) because of this. She’s no more of a role model or a representation of real women than Sam is or Janet was. She is just Vala and just Vala is who I enjoy watching. Would I like her in real life? Perhaps not, but because she's a TV character, that's not an issue for me.

[Skydiver]

He is a bad role model, especially due to his enormous flaws and still being made leader of the elite unit of a top secret program. He simply says "If you've got a big enough mouth, everything'll be okay in the end". And for the people decide on their own...please explain how you allow a child to decide on their own And Vala set an extemely bad example (Read Shadow's post )

cameron is actually a perfect example of the incompetant person that waltzes into a dream job because he's got the right friends.

The ONLY thing that made him the leader of sg-1????? The fact that, apparantly, jack promised him ANY position. And he wanted to be on sg-1, which didn't exist, so he's the leader...and stayed the leader. Despite the fact that he has not qualifications to be the leader other than, evidentally, no one wants to take it away from him, no matter how badly he futzes up.

(and he also perpetrates the sexist ideal that leading male MUST be the boss)

[Skydiver]

I don't see Vala as any sort of role model (dear gods above, what a revolting thought!), but I agree with Dani about hating what she does and hating that she "gets away" with it. And I don't buy the "it's OK because it's funny" excuse because as far as I'm concerned it's NOT funny and that is absolutely NO reason for her to "get away" with anything.

vala gets away with it because, yeah it's funny. so she can sell them out to the lucian allaince, but it'll be ok if everyone gets a good yuk yuk out of it.

She keeps up the idea that, as long as you flash enough cleavage, you can do whatever you want.

She's as much of a fanboy fantasy as sam was when she didn't deck pete for following her. One weakness of these writers is that, especially when they write women, they write them the way they want them to be, now how they would or should act.

[Skydiver]

I dare any of you to try what Vala did at YOUR place of work. See how funny it is then.

see how fast you get fired and sued for every penny you own.

sexual harrassment is wrong no matter the genders involved. And putting it forth as a joke does nothing more than promote it and encourage such behaviors.

What vala does to daniel, for the sake of a joke, is pathetic. She destroys the character and emasculates him and turns him into nothing more than a patsy for her jokes.

but it's ok to make Daniel a laughing stock, after all, it's funny to humiliate people, aint it???

[Shipperahoy]

I wouldn't call Vala a role model but I would hold her up as a bad example of what I would want to be or if I had a daughter what I would want her to be. I tend to give t.v. and movies more leeway when it comes to outrageous behavior because it's outrageous and ficticious situations but, again, that character was so one dimensional to me that there didn't seem to be any redeeming qualities. I'm cautiously optimistic for season 10 though going on her late season 9 appearance.

[Skydiver]

I wouldn't call Vala a role model but I would hold her up as a bad example of what I would want to be or if I had a daughter what I would want her to be. I tend to give t.v. and movies more leeway when it comes to outrageous behavior because it's outrageous and ficticious situations but, again, that character was so one dimensional to me that there didn't seem to be any redeeming qualities. I'm cautiously optimistic for season 10 though going on her late season 9 appearance.

and the crux will be....can they believably and realistically write her out of that one dimensional corner without falling back on any more cliches than they've already used?

from my experience, the cliche 'a leopard doesn't change its spots' is a cliche for a reason. People don't change, not that much, not that fast.

and then, considering that she's a character and not a real person, i ask myself can these writers keep her toned down and not fall into the 'i know it's stupid, but it's fun!!!!' trap??

given how they fawn all over the character and can't say enough adn go out of their way to promote her, i don't know if they can distance themselves from vala's flaws to really see her and see what the issues are.

from peoples opinions about cam, they can barely handle writing an original male character, and given their near total lack of ability to write females that aren't half of a ship, or the vixen, vala seems pretty doomed. She will fall into the same trap that sam has since s6.