Cameron - Discussion and Appreciation

[esoap524]

As why he hasn't been in the first half of the season as much, and this is my opinon; TPTB wanted to do as much as they can on Vala since Claudia Black was only there while AT was on baby leave and Ben was there for the whole season.

I believe that we will get to know about Mitchell more in the second half of the season. That will be more about him, personally, and how he leads the team.

And I agree with you With Vala, if the character didn't work out, or didn't get an good overall reaction, network didn't like her etc, she was gone after 6 episodes. Mitchell, OTOH, was a done deal for all 20. It's almost like they had an "out" with Vala but had to make sure that viewers could warm to Mitchell because they had him all season. And, of course, logistically as you point out, they DID have him all season and only had her for 6 episodes.

I really think we'll see more Mitchell, but not at the expense of the rest of the team.

[Neelan_Liquor]

*bump*

[ShardsofGlass]

I think he's done an excellent job of setting himself apart from O'Neill, who was much more jaded. Mitchell has a sort of bright-eyed optimism that is very endearing. His way of leading isn't going to be like Jack's because he's of a different generation and the people he's leading are his contemporaries. He seems more of a "sensitive guy" to me than O'Neil was, confiding to Carter his fear of "screwing up" for example.

I also like the contrast of his possible religiosity with Daniel's more scientific, almost atheistic, approach. Cam strikes me as a guy who does pray and could believe in miracles, but is smart enough to know a charlatan when he sees one.

He also has a nice, wry sense of humor without being too sarcastic. If he ever has a love story, I suspect he'll be a gentleman to the core, which is very sweet.

As far as similarities to John Crichton, the last character he played...well, there's a few but the main difference is that Cam is NOT crazy . Crichton was, and I say that with all due respect and affection for the character. Cam sort of reminds me of very early Crichton but without the passive resistance part; Cam is military afterall. Crichton was a scientist. Cam is also more mature and measured, vs impulsive.

I don't know if Mallozzi and Co have made things better or worse by not highlighting him early on. It does look like he has a big ep coming up so time will tell, I suppose. And Browder is not a big ego type of guy. I think he's happy he has a paying job that allows him to do what he loves to do--play the action hero, get "blowed up" and muddy and work with people he likes and respects. Not a bad day at the office!

I also think Ben and the writers have done a great job of making Mitchell different from O'Neill. Sure they both have a sense of humor, but that's hardly some rare character trait that no one else has. Other than that, I think they're completely different. I never understand what people see when they say Ben is trying to be like Jack.

Also, Mitchell might be slightly similary to Crichton, but Crichton spouted a LOT more pop-culture references. Mitchell has only made a couple. And Crichton was anti-military and anti-authority. Mitchell is hardly either of those things. Sure both guys are gentlemen and energetic and heroic, but again, so are a lot of people. The differences are more subtle than between Vala and Aeryn, but they're definitely there. And if you compare S4 Crichton with Mitchell, the differences are pretty huge, imo. I think Ben has a very hard job because he's playing two people who are written very similar. Not to take anything away from Claudia, but Vala is the polar opposite from Aeryn. I don't know how any actor could ever have trouble making them different from each other.

As far as whether Mitchell is better off being downplayed in the first half or not, I guess only time will tell. I think they definitely woudln't have wanted to emphasize his character too much early on. Viewers needed to get used to him being around and see the rest of the SG-1 team accept him. Plus, whoever said that Ben was there long-term was right. THey could bolder with Vala and if it didn't work out, oh well. But they'd committed to one or two years with Mitchell, so I can see how they'd want to be cautious.

You know, today, I was thinking about when ER brought in Dr. Kovach. If any of you don't watch the show, he was the hunky new doctor brought in when George Clooney left. At first, he had a pretty small role, but in the second half of the season, they gave him a really great story arc that dealt with his wife's death and really fleshed out the character and let us get to know him. By that point, I was really ready to learn more about him, anxious even. Now ER's a different kind of show with a lot of characters coming and going, but I was thinking that it might be a good parallel.

[Kas]

Wow, so many great posts that I've really enjoyed catching up on.

Happy New Year everyone:

I don't know if Mallozzi and Co have made things better or worse by not highlighting him early on. It does look like he has a big ep coming up so time will tell, I suppose. And Browder is not a big ego type of guy. I think he's happy he has a paying job that allows him to do what he loves to do--play the action hero, get "blowed up" and muddy and work with people he likes and respects. Not a bad day at the office!

Like you, I'm not sure on this. On the one hand, it seems to have worked with the long-term fan. However, is it enough to hold on to the fans that Ben brought over, if they are not into the show as a whole? Then again, I feel that no matter who the actor is, you have to enjoy the premise and style of the show as it has been established already, because the long-term format is never really going to alter radically. It has its own kind of winning formula and it really was more important to introduce him into the existing show first and foremost, not forgetting that the general audience that make up the viewing ratings are really not tremendously bothered enough to be outrageously negative. They don't like, they don't watch - simple as that. And they are watching!

So, on that note and judging by the fact that Ben is the lead actor (hey, that's what first in the credits means folks ), then he can expect to have his airtime and prominence in storylines. As an actor with a career, he'd not sign for anything less no matter how enjoyable. So, I have no doubt he's going to come to establish his presence during this second half season. I'm sure that Ben was prepared for this gradual introduction - all his interviews tend to bear this out. LOL! at Ben's wife, Fran, saying that we now need to see more Mitchell... would he sign if she'd be disappointed?

I totally agree with all you folks that the characters of John Crichton and Cameron Mitchell are already so very different. This is real kudos to Ben considering that on paper they could have been so very much the same as in slightly cocky, action hero but he's established very firm differences. People that have seen the full seasons of Farscape should have no trouble recognising that and people who've never watched shouldn't be bothered. I also, do not recognise him as being anything at all like Jack O'Neill. Now, we've just got to wait for his development and some backstory. However, I don't just want to see this dolloped out in one hit. I want the slow unravelling and the progression to Mitchell's real 'kryptonite'.

[shester]

One thing about the similarities of Mitchell and Crichton is Ben. Every character he plays will have some of him in them. Just like Mel Gibson or Sly Stallone or Harrison Ford. They all have similarities in the roles they play. Han Solo and Indiana Jones had similar traits. I hope you can understand what I am trying to say.
Sybil

[ShardsofGlass]

One thing about the similarities of Mitchell and Crichton is Ben. Every character he plays will have some of him in them. Just like Mel Gibson or Sly Stallone or Harrison Ford. They all have similarities in the roles they play. Han Solo and Indiana Jones had similar traits. I hope you can understand what I am trying to say.
Sybil

That's an excellent point. I was thinking about this the other day too. When I see Denzel Washington in a role, I expect certain things, the way the actor talks and moves, for instance. When Robert DeNiro is in a movie, you know there will some of that tough guy image he brings to everything. Unless the person is playing a real "character," someone with a thick accent or a striking personality, or is extreme in some way, then you're going to see things that are just part of the actor.

I think people forget that with Ben because they haven't seen him in other things. Now, if Ben started doing some of the more extreme Crichton things, like going nuts, then we can say he's just doing Crichton. And I kind of think he was doing Crichton when he did the bullets bounce line, even though I thought it was really funny. But I haven't seen flashes of Crichton since then, personally.

[Cpt. Ritter]

I don't mind seeing a bit of his former role come through, because it's just Ben's personality and how he acts. Like Robert Davi who played Koyla in Atlantis' The Eye and The Storm, who also played Sanchez in "License to Kill," there's comparisons that can be drawn. But that's how fans can enjoy it.

On a side note. "BULLETS BOUNCE!" Was hilarious, especially the look Teal'c gave him afterwards. (<-That really doesn't look like Cam)

On another side note, if your a Cameron shipper and know stories about him... nominate them for the Isis Awards. It's for purely secondary ships, which means the only things that are off limits are Sam/Jack and Sheppard/Weir. Cameron paired with anyone work. Get out there and support your fanfic friends. I nominated Cameron Mitchell's Crush, by me of course.

http://isis.worldstowander.com/

[Dream-a-Little]

But it might be the intentions of the PTB to do just that. It’s early in Ben’s first season, so in the effort NOT to push him down the throats of the RDA fans, they’re acting like SG-1, keeping back a bit, evaluating him.

Oh I think it was definitely intentional, but in the end poor strategy. The rabid "how dare anyone replace RDA" fans will probably never accept the character. They've frustrated many of Ben's existing fans as well as many of the Stargate people who came to the table with an open mind.

[Dream-a-Little]

Wow, DAL, you sure have had a lot to say recently!!! (my new big smilie )

Ahh but you sure are giving me a run for my money in the having a lot to say department! As are quite a few other people I see! Yeah!!! I so hate it when I feel like I am talking to myself! Hopefully the high traffic on this thread will continue since what could possibly be more interesting to talk about than Ben on Screen! Unfortunately, today I only have time for a hit and run! Will be back to play later! Please feel free to carry on without me!

[esoap524]

One thing about the similarities of Mitchell and Crichton is Ben. Every character he plays will have some of him in them. Just like Mel Gibson or Sly Stallone or Harrison Ford. They all have similarities in the roles they play. Han Solo and Indiana Jones had similar traits. I hope you can understand what I am trying to say.
Sybil

I think that definitely goes without saying. I wrote this somewhere else ( a FS site, I think) that in addition to both characters being played by Ben, they're also men of the same world (Earth, specifically the southern part of the United States, like Ben himself), time frame (late 20th century/early 21st, ALSO like Ben) with an exposure to American pop culture and some relationship with the military. They're also white males--we don't know enough about Mitchell yet to know what kind of background he has. So, naturally, there will be some general similarities. I still think he's done a good job of distinguishing between the two.

Forgot to add--Ben in person at a con is not like Cameron or Crichton.

[Dream-a-Little]

Part Two:

Those first few pix look like they were from Ben’s flight with the Thunderbirds, but if it’s actually from an ep, the cards are a flight patch, the emblem of his squadron. Aces have been used in the past (to excess) so maybe this is a straight flush? Four sevens? Probably meant to represent something LUCKY! It might NEVER be explained either.

They actually are from the ep. The answer to the flight patch question can be found here:

http://afhra.maxwell.af.mil/wwwroot/...es/0077fs.html

If they stick with the history of this squadron then it looks like Mitchell

Spoiler:

was in the Gulf War

. Provided he was with that squadron at that time.

This got me thinking... and I don’t think it could. Mitchell’s forming a relationship with these people based on a NEW threat. They’ve already proven that they’re resistant to any relationships with other Jaffa, simply because of their unique history. I don’t think they’d respond to Teal’c the same way they’ve begun to respond to Mitchell.

I think that you have a good point here, but I'm not sure that the writers actually see it that way. IMO they really have set up the first part of the season with a really big open door that they could push the character out of if need be. That really does look like it's going to change in the next couple of episodes. I don't know whether that's because they feel more confident at this point or because someone higher up kicked their butts and said enough stalling already.

As why he hasn't been in the first half of the season as much, and this is my opinon; TPTB wanted to do as much as they can on Vala since Claudia Black was only there while AT was on baby leave and Ben was there for the whole season.

Possibly, but I also think it simply provided them with a good excuse to put off having to deal with a more challenging and difficult character to write. I also sometimes wonder whether it also served to conveniently keep Daniel and Mitchell apart. When looking at the second half season spoilers, that's the relationship that, to me anyways, seems to be the hardest for them to figure out.

[Dream-a-Little]

Is Mitchell like Jack or Crichton?

I don't think he is anything like Jack. And perhaps that is actually a problem for some people. Everyone screamed that they didn't want a Jack clone, but I'm not so sure that they really didn't. They've given you someone who is actually a different character and maybe people would be more comfortable with someone who looks more like Jack or at least a character that has held a command position in the show before. One thing I am sure of is that every time he says something funny we will have to have the knee jerk "he's trying to be like Jack" reaction from somebody. Followed by the "he's not anywhere near as funny as Jack" rant.

As far as him being like Crichton, I think only in a very superficial way. Crichton was essentially a non-confrontational character. Non-confrontational to the point of self destructiveness. Mitchell's not. In Beachhead when offered the lets run away and rethink the situation option - that's the one Crichton would have taken. Mitchell is a stand his ground and fight kind of guy. Crichton would have rather been wrong doing nothing, Mitchell would rather be wrong doing something. That's a fundamental difference in the characters - not a superficial one.

Crichton was an emotionally messy character often lacking self discipline. Mitchell, from what we have seen so far is very disciplined and focused. That's not to say that we won't find conflict or turmoil below the surface. I think actually we very well may. There would appear to be things in Mitchell's background that were a bit dark. But Mitchell seems to be much better at keeping a lid on it, he is more about order and self control. That again is a fundamental difference in the characters - not a superficial one.

We really don't know a great deal about this character so far. And yet still, there are real differences between him and Crichton. Real differences, not just surface differences. For me, the only real resemblance to Crichton is that he looks like him and they both have a sense of humor. Since the military nature limits what Ben can do with the physical appearance of the character, the audience is just going to have to get past that. And if you are going to define who a character is primarily by his humor, well that's really kind of shallow isn't? JMO.

[Neelan_Liquor]

However, is it enough to hold on to the fans that Ben brought over, if they are not into the show as a whole?

They've frustrated many of Ben's existing fans....

Hey, just look over at BenBrowderPortal and you'll see a slew of Ben fans who tuned into SG-1 (me included) because of Ben (and, NO, it's NOT stalking... it's love hehe), so the advertising campaign and the Ben-light season 9 first half may have turned off other Farscape fans, but not us Benaholics!

Now, we've just got to wait for his development and some backstory. However, I don't just want to see this dolloped out in one hit. I want the slow unravelling and the progression to Mitchell's real 'kryptonite'.

But Cameron might not have a 'kryptonite'... I don't. That was just Landry's impression of the 'perfect person', or any old pilot. He's expecting to find a weakness in Cam, but that doesn't mean there IS one. There could be several little weaknesses... like in real people.

I also sometimes wonder whether it also served to conveniently keep Daniel and Mitchell apart. When looking at the second half season spoilers, that's the relationship that, to me anyways, seems to be the hardest for them to figure out.

It really irks me that the creators think fans are so frelling stupid that they can't tell the difference between Daniel and ANY OTHER CHARACTER! Keeping Mitchell and Daniel apart because Ben and Michael look alike (at times) is rediculous! But... whatEVER! /

As for the similarities between Crichton and Mitchell or O'Neill and Mitchell (both with TWO "l"s) I think the main one is that all three men are white, American males. Other than that, you guys have pointed out several differences, but think about this. If Mitchell were 15 years older (or so) and had served in 'Nam, instead of the Gulf War, wouldn't he be just a bit more like O'Neill? Our generation, family, birth order in that family, and personal history forms a LOT of what we become in adulthood. The fact that only 15 years (or so) divides Mitchell's AF history from O'Neill's might be the biggest reason that they are as different as they are. They could be much more alike if those years didn't divide them. Because they do, Mitchell and O'Neill are distinctly different. IMO of course.

[esoap524]

Crichton was an emotionally messy character often lacking self discipline. Mitchell, from what we have seen so far is very disciplined and focused. That's not to say that we won't find conflict or turmoil below the surface. I think actually we very well may. There would appear to be things in Mitchell's background that were a bit dark. But Mitchell seems to be much better at keeping a lid on it, he is more about order and self control. That again is a fundamental difference in the characters - not a superficial one.

Crichton-crazy. Mitchell--not crazy. To me, Mitchell is also much more mature. Don't get me wrong--I loved Crichton as a character because of his many flaws, just like the other multi-flawed characters on FS.

I'm interested to see what they bring in regarding Mitchell and his father, which I've read will be touched upon in an upcoming episode; that might be the key to a more conflicted past. Was his dad a pacifist? An embittered veteran who wanted his son as far away from the military as possible? A drunk?

Of course, I may be looking for deeper characterization in a show that doesn't traditionally go that route.

As for bringing in Ben (and Claudia fans, in my case) to SG1, that's exactly where I stand. The show isn't my cuppa tea--it's too "male" in my humble opinion, too talky and isn't really character focused. I'm watching for Browder and Black and I've enlisted my friends to do the same. I'm not sure how many fans the show has lost because of the new cast members but I can say that I'm a "new" fan because of the new cast members.

[Dream-a-Little]

Hey, just look over at BenBrowderPortal and you'll see a slew of Ben fans who tuned into SG-1 (me included) because of Ben (and, NO, it's NOT stalking... it's love hehe), so the advertising campaign and the Ben-light season 9 first half may have turned off other Farscape fans, but not us Benaholics!

Yes, Ben's fans are unquestionally loyal! I hope Stargate producers fully appreciate the value of that! And just because I'm fussing doesn't mean I'm not either. When I think he's being short changed I fuss, but that's only because I care! Frustrated yes, deserting no.

It really irks me that the creators think fans are so frelling stupid that they can't tell the difference between Daniel and ANY OTHER CHARACTER! Keeping Mitchell and Daniel apart because Ben and Michael look alike (at times) is rediculous! But... whatEVER! /

Actually I was thinking more in terms of they don't really know what kind of relationship that they want Daniel and Mitchell to have. And Vala was an opportunity to put off having to deal with that. Even on the back side of the season they seem to be putting that one off. Of course, knowing them, the they look too much alike bit probably also factored into it.