Cameron - Discussion and Appreciation

[ChillinTheMost]

Eeeeks. Page 3!

I saw Ben's new commercial via a link provided. He's such a shipper. LOL. So far, no romance filmed for him this coming year. That's fine, I'm just hoping they develop his character more.

[ChillinTheMost]

The forums are really acting weird today. First it wouldn't post my last post, I got "Page not found" or something and had to close down the forum. Then, when I returned, my post was there - twice - but it register whereever it does to bring the thread to the top and it was still on the third page. Hmmm, I guess I'll see what's happening this time...

later...

Hmmm, seems to working okay now...

[scarimor]

The forums are really acting weird today. First it wouldn't post my last post, I got "Page not found" or something and had to close down the forum. Then, when I returned, my post was there - twice - but it register whereever it does to bring the thread to the top and it was still on the third page. Hmmm, I guess I'll see what's happening this time...

later...

Hmmm, seems to working okay now...

We were in The Twilight Zone a few days ago too - like a thread was locked for viewing but you could still post to it - and then you couldn't see or get to your posts, but you could keep on posting into the ether. Weird.

[Dream-a-Little]

Yes, Cooper can write well but I get the feeling his strengths are more in the episodic plot area than in season-arc and character development. So we haven't seen many good little character moments which enrich the plots with meaning. The lack of a developing relationship between Cameron and the rest of the team is a case in point - there's been no steady movement in the season - few if any bits of personal interaction unless you count the ones where the team are frustrated with Cameron for whatever reason - so nothing substantial has developed.

While they seem to be trying to make Cameron quirky and fun, that lack of development deprives him of the sense of dignity needed to balance him into a rounded character who relates to the others. One result is that long-term fans who know Sam, Dan and Teal'c well are taking a long time to warm up to Cameron, and BB fans who have come in to see him and his character are taking a long time to warm up to the others.

Building strong and compelling relationships between Mitchell and the other characters would be a positive thing for both groups of fans. Strong and compelling relationships between characters provide strong and compelling acting opportunities for the actors playing them. What fan of any character or actor wouldn’t see that as a positive thing?

Mitchell was physically isolated from the other characters for a large chunk of season 9. It mystifies me as to why, when they did put him together with the other members of the team for longer periods of time, they chose to go with the dynamic that they did. Why do the lets have recurring situations where Sam, Daniel and Teal’c get to have the opportunity to take a disparaging attitude toward Mitchell approach? That’s an approach that would seem geared to validate or create negative feelings in long term fans toward Mitchell. Speaking as a BB fan, it’s not something that is going to foster warm and fuzzy feelings on my part toward the original characters. So where is the win in this approach? It’s not even a case of poor writing, but more a total lack of sensitivity to basic human psychology or even common sense.

Irregardless of the particular strengths or weaknesses of any of the writers involved with the show, I’d be happy just to see some sign of good old fashioned common sense come out of the writers’ room at Bridge.

[Dream-a-Little]

Dream you scare me sometimes because you write exactly what I think except you express it so much more eloquently that I can. I'm afraid GUY WITH GUN is exactly what Ben will end up being this season.

We'll just have to keep our fingers crossed that they don't confine him to that role. Everybody loses if they take that approach. Ben, the show and the audience, even the members of the audience that don't realize that; maybe especially the members of the audience that don't realize that.

[Dream-a-Little]

Some really great posts, but the part I bolded above really struck me. I think I love the quirky, fun stuff Mitchell does because I believe that under the goofyness is a real leader and a strong, solid man. But, you're right, scarimor, they haven't really developed that on-screen enough for everyone to come to that same conclusion, or, the way they developed it didn't necessarily blend in well with the rest of the episode for some viewers, so they look on the scenes with distain rather than character-development scenes.

Contrast to O'Neill, who, I believe can also be quirky and silly. But, since his character also was developed to show his other side, it is easier for some fans to laugh along with O'Neill's quirkiness.

Mitchell needs to be fully integrated with the team. He needs to show more strong leadership skills and he needs to have the strong solid side of his character developed more - using things that he is doing now and not always flashbacks.

O'Neill's/RDA's advantage was that he was allowed to clearly "own" the role as leader. He was allowed to be shown actively exhibiting strong leadership and the strong side of his character in the here and now of an episode. If they let Mitchell "own" the role of leader instead of trying to keep the situation "fuzzy", then he too could be written that way in the here and now of an episode instead of relying on flashbacks. Not only does he not have a level playing field within the narrative with the current characters, he hasn’t even been given the same opportunities of the character that he has replaced.

He doesn't have to stop being quirky or fun to be written as a strong leader. He does however need to actually be written as the leader and not just an extra guy on the team.

[Lightsabre]

O'Neill's/RDA's advantage was that he was allowed to clearly "own" the role as leader. He was allowed to be shown actively exhibiting strong leadership and the strong side of his character in the here and now of an episode. If they let Mitchell "own" the role of leader instead of trying to keep the situation "fuzzy", then he too could be written that way in the here and now of an episode instead of relying on flashbacks. Not only does he not have a level playing field within the narrative with the current characters, he hasn’t even been given the same opportunities of the character that he has replaced.

He doesn't have to stop being quirky or fun to be written as a strong leader. He does however need to actually be written as the leader and not just an extra guy on the team.

I agree. O'Neill did nothing else but lead the team, why can't Mitchell??
There is NO clear leader at the moment and I don't buy for one second the argument that SG-1 doesn't need one.
Writing Mitchell as the strong leader we've seen at times would both evaporate a lot of fan complaints AND help drag Mitchell back from the precipice.

[Dream-a-Little]

Eeeeks. Page 3!

I saw Ben's new commercial via a link provided. He's such a shipper. LOL. So far, no romance filmed for him this coming year. That's fine, I'm just hoping they develop his character more.

He's always been a hopeless romantic, our loss if we get nothing on the romantic front from Mitchell. Stargate has always seemed to me to be a show with an audience who prefers their characters to have androgynous tendencies. I’m not a big fan of androgynous; to me that’s a sign of limited character development. I don’t think characters should be defined by their sexuality, but I don’t think they should be defined by their lack of it either. I have a feeling neither does BB.

[ChillinTheMost]

Formerhost has her transcript of the commentary of Origin on the season 9 thread. Not too much about Ben or Mitchell. I found this amusing, though...

[Talking about differing religions]

JM: Yeah. Dennis Miller summed it up well, though. He says, “Really, they’re just arguing over who has the best invisible friend.”

RC: I haven’t… haven’t heard that one. I’m gonna move over slightly from you just in case the lightning bolt –

LOL. They did talk about the on-line community, though. They said that they do read some of the stuff, but that you can't know how much of the viewing audience the on-line community represents; and even within that community there is a lot of diversity. I think I paraphrased that correctly.

[ChillinTheMost]

Chronicling Mitchell:

916 – Off The Grid

Before I start on this one, I want to say that I am one of the few people that actually liked this episode. My biggest problem with it is not that Mitchell supposedly went against orders by not “flying under the radar”, but the fact that that command was given in the first place. SG-1 is the flagship team of the SGC. They are the crème de la crème with highly-trained specialists; people that are the premiere talents in their fields. Landry is essentially wasting the talent of this team by sending them on a “take some notes” mission. SG-1 is also a very proactive team. They don’t hide in the cornfield with a notepad counting the stalks being harvested. They will do something proactive if it is deemed necessary and I believe they should. That is their job.

Now that I’ve given an excuse to Mitchell for not “flying under the radar”…

In the opening scene, we get a quick glimpse of more undercover leathers. Need I say more?

At a briefing, Reynolds explains how a member of his team tried the addictive corn on another planet and had to be restrained to make him return to Earth.
Jackson: “Amazing.”
Mitchell: “ Obviously, you’ve never had my grandma’s corn bread and black-eyed peas.”
Jackson: “No… uh…”
I love the way they play off each other.

Local Farmer: “This is not the way the Alliance does business.”
Jackson: “As in, The Lucien Alliance?”
Mitchell: [speaking through his teeth] “What other alliances do we know?”
Teal’c: “Many.”

It took me a while to understand this exchange and since some folks use it as an excuse to say Mitchell is so stupid, he doesn’t know they have a lot of alliances, I want to explain.
Mitchell is trying to make the local farmer think he is “in the know” and some big shot in the drug business, which, in the area of this planet, is controlled by The Lucien Alliance. When Daniel asks which alliance, it may appear that they’re grasping at straws and really don’t know anything. Mitchell’s response is like, “Of course that alliance, do any others matter?” Teal’c just ruins Mitchell’s plan a little more by saying, “Many.” [Although Mitchell gets to use Teal’c’s literalness to his advantage a few minutes later.] Think of if they were talking about cake…
Local farmer, with piece of chocolate cake: “I just love this cake.”
Jackson: “Chocolate cake?”
Mitchell: “Is there any other kind?”
Teal’c: “Yes, there is white, yellow, lemon…”
Mitchell would be trying to bond with the guy.

Mitchell: “Well, tell him Mr. Shaft would like to meet with him Any specific time? Or should I just block off the whole afternoon?” Hee. He likes his call sign. I think maybe flying fighter jets made him think he was someone else and the call sign is a connection to that fantasy. He uses it as his fantasy alias. Heh, besides “Shaft” is cool sounding.

Carter: “We’re supposed to stay under the radar.”
Teal’c: “I doubt this world possesses such technology.”
Mitchell: “See? When he’s right, he’s right…”[This time, Mitchell takes advantage of Teal’c’s literalness.]

Mitchell: “Well, no offense, Jackson, but you do not strike me as the drug dealer type. In fact, you’re not even close.”
Jackson: “I think I’m as close as you are.”
Carter: “Come on. You’re miles away.”
Mitchell: “Teal’c. Which one of us is closer?”
Teal’c: “I believe the three of you to be equidistant.”
Mitchell: “Oh, please! Mary Poppins is not even in the running.”Carter: “Hey!”
Mitchell: [to Teal’c] “And neither are you. Because I’m going...”

This is a great team exchange as they are all ribbing each other and having fun, even while sounding a little pissy. I love that Mitchell calls Carter “Mary Poppins,” because he doesn’t mean it disrespectfully, but, even knowing that she’s blown up a sun and created bombs, she still has that sweet, innocent look. I think it’s sweet and maybe a bit protective that he still thinks of her this way. I also like that this is a potentially dangerous mission and he is determined that he is the only one that is going to take it. He knows that the Jackson and Carter are too important to use for a one-man dangerous mission and he isn’t asking Teal’c to take that chance, either.

After Mitchell meets the drug guys [and they totally screw up, thinking “Mister” is Mitchell’s first name], and as he is being brought to a house, Mitchell gives Carter, Teal’c and Jackson the “thumps up” sign behind his back.

Mitchell: “I represent a coalition of seven planets, with a combined population of 30 million casa hungry souls. We’re looking for a supplier…”
…
Worrell: “Just exactly who do you think you are?”
Mitchell: “I already told you my name.”
Worrell: “Mister.”
Mitchell: “Actually, it’s just Shaft. Mister’s more of a courtesy title…”
And later, when Worrell again calls him Mister in front of the rest of SG-1:
Mitchell: “Actually, it’s Mitchell. Cameron Mitchell. [to Jackson] I tried to explain the…, uh…, Mister thing… I don’t think…”

Okay, a lot of people thought this was stupid. I thought it was funny. Maybe I’m just easily amused. I was also amused when Worrell asked him to repeat many planets he represented.
Mitchell: “Seven. But one of them is a moon, so…”Mitchell may have spent those four hours lying in the sun coming up with this story, but I like to believe that he’s making it up as he goes.

Harriman: “Colonel Mitchell’s never missed a check-in.” I think this was just a plot device to make General Landry check up on them and ultimately send help, but it upset some fans thinking it meant that they were trying to make Mitchell seem more reliable than the others. Besides being a plot device, I’m not sure Mitchell has ever had an occasion to miss a check-in, and it’s certainly not a knock against the others, because if they missed a check in, the SGC would stand alerted to possible problems with them as well.

While Worrell’s men are using force to gain information from SG-1:
Worrell: “…if you tell me the location of the Stargate, I’m prepared to release you.”
Mitchell: “Oh, you are not! I can’t… [to SG-1] Can you believe he just said that?”I love his indignation while being beat up.

And for those saying Mitchell is the one always putting SG-1 in danger…
Mitchell: “Well, for what it’s worth guys… Sorry I dragged you into this…”
Daniel: “Oh, it happens all the time.”

Then he tries to save the others:
Mitchell: “Hey, the other three had nothing to do with this. I was running the operation…”
Samantha: “Cam…”
It was useless, but he tried and I think Sam’s remark was a confirmation that they’re in these things together.

A nice good buddy exchange between Mitchell and Daniel when they are rescued:
Mitchell nudges Daniel: “How about that timing, Jackson?”
Daniel: “Good timing.”

Mitchell: We beam on the ship, make our way to the cargo hold and tag the gates with these suckers…
Carter: “Locater beacons…”
Okay, maybe that bit of tech didn’t need to be simplified for us by Mitchell.

I just want to pause for a moment to admire the cool pose as they beam onto Ba’al’s ship. [pause]
Well, I liked it.

They get to the cargo hold…
Teal’c: “Colonel Mitchell”
Mitchell: “Company. Ideas?”
Before just firing, Mitchell checks with his crack team for alternatives. Teal’c takes away any options, if there were any, by just starting to shoot. Mitchell joins the shooting while Jackson and Carter put the beacons on the gates. Then, when things get worse…
Mitchell: “Jackson! A little help!”Mitchell truly sees Jackson as an equal member of a fighting squad, when needed. There is no big brother attitude like O’Neill felt. [Again, not a negative against O’Neill. It was perfectly natural for their circumstances. It’s just that I like the new circumstances between Mitchell and Jackson that shows how Jackson is perceived by the two leaders.]

I like how the team works together during the tagging scene and how they are determined to finish the mission:
Emerson: “We’ve got to get you out of there. Now.”
Carter: “That’s a negative. I’m still tagging the gates.”
Emerson: “Colonel, without shields Ba’al’s ship will not be able to withstand anything.”
Mitchell: “We know. Thank you. SG-1 out.”
I just love how his attitude is, “too busy shooting things… We’ll chat later…”

Mitchell: “Last mag. Alright, we need to find other way off this boat. Carter?”
Carter: “I have an idea.”
Mitchell: “Nice.”This is a Mitchell, “That’s what I’m talking about” moment. This is why he wanted to join SG-1 and why he wanted that SG-1 to be Carter, Jackson and Teal’c. Carter has an idea and he trusts that it will work.

Mitchell: “We have got the best jobs in the world, don’t we?”
Carter: “I’m gonna hit the shower.”
Jackson: “I’m gonna find a doctor.”
Teal’c: “We are indeed suitable employed.”
Mitchell: Yeah, it was a good day.”
Teal’c gets it. Under his seemingly lack of emotion exterior, he get the excitement of the job.


Quotes:


“Obviously, you’ve never had my grandma’s corn bread and black-eyed peas.”

“See? When he’s right, he’s right…”

“Oh, please! Mary Poppins is not even in the running.”

Upon finding out that Landry got his information from Nerus…
“Oh, jim dandy.”

When Carter has an idea to get them out of danger.
“Nice.”

Mitchell: “We have got the best jobs in the world, don’t we?”
Carter: “I’m gonna hit the shower.”
Jackson: “I’m gonna find a doctor.”
Teal’c: “We are indeed suitable employed.”
Mitchell: Yeah, it was a good day.”

[ChillinTheMost]

Man, that was a long one...

[shester]

I liked OTG too Chillinthemost. I thought I was the only one. I just assumed it was suppose to be a goofy episode and that is the way I took it.
Loved Ben's goofy side.

Sybil

[ChillinTheMost]

Yea! It's not a very popular episode, sybil, but I agree with you - it was just so much fun.

Maybe it's me. I hate to look stupid, but I'll say something stupid to get a laugh from my friends. They'll laugh and say that it couldn't be "A" [what I said], and because of this and that, it had to be "B". And I'll say, "Yeah, but there's no laugh in "B".

I see some things Mitchell says as just "going for the joke". Like when he said he flunked fencing. No way he flunked it. Maybe he didn't get his usual high marks [and I can't believe he wasn't an exceptional student, with what he's accomplished], but mostly I just think he was going for the joke since he started out doing fine against the knight ["I took a class in fencing"] then started doing really poorly ["Did I mention I flunked that class?"] I would have said something similar, even if I aced that class. Going for the joke with your friends because they know the real you.

I can see viewing OTG as something like that - but the writers going for the joke.

Or something. I had a point, I'm sure I did.

[ShardsofGlass]

Nice write-up, Chillin! I still am not wild about OTG, but the scenes between Mitchell and the rest of the gang about who looks more like a drug dealer, as well as the scene where Mitchell is trying to convince the leader that he's a drug dealer, do crack me up. But they bug me at the same time because, I think, they don't fit with the character of Mitchell we've seen up to that point. And I hate the way he came up with such a stupid plan. It's like something a high school kid would think up, not a colonel in the air force. Am I making sense?

I think it could've worked more if it hadn't been Mitchell's idea, that he'd been forced to improvise for some reason and came up with that. But I hate that the writers made him look stupid here.

[Dream-a-Little]

Man, that was a long one...

That’s for sure! I don't like that one section of the episode, but I thought the briefing room scene in the beginning was probably one of the best briefing room scenes of the season. I loved Mitchell's reaction to the "space corn" and I have a soft spot for Mitchell's granny. I'm still hoping they do something with her in some future episode.

I totally loved Mitchell once you put him back in uniform on the Odyssey. My biggest problem with the other part of the episode was the contrast of Mitchell's reaction to the gulf incident in CD and his reaction to a somewhat similar situation here. The reactions in both episodes seem to be at odds to each other. Mitchell's reaction in CD fit with what I had gotten from previous episodes. His reaction in this episode didn’t.

In any case, this is a show where all of the characters have had their fair share of episodes where their characters kind of took a detour. I just actually pay closer attention to Mitchell so I think it just hits a stronger note with me when the writers do it to him.