Cameron - Discussion and Appreciation

[shester]

Amen Chillinthemost. My sentiments exactly.
Sybil

[scarimor]

When I said the fans were complaining about Ben, I wasn't talking about his acting. I was talking about the fact that he had been brought in ahead of the other three who've been there since the beginning.

Ah, sorry , I misunderstood. I see what you're getting at.

[RyantheGreat]

RyantheGreat,
I agree with that. I also think a lot of fans were hoping that with RDA gone either AT or MS would become the new lead. Obviously that didn't happen, so there's a lot of resentment still there. The one problem with your scenario, though, is that I'm not convinced SG will go beyond S10, or that Ben will stay on the show. I could be totally wrong, but Ben's commuting every weekend to LA, and that has to get old really quick. And the ratings have been down for all the Scifi shows, so there's some uncertainty about what Scifi will do and whether they'll keep SG-1, at least in my mind there's uncertainty! I think it's important for Ben and Mitchell to be accepted already! By S10, people should be used to him and either still watch or not watch.

BTW, I've been reading your comments on the Who Should Lead thread and enjoying them very much. You're saying everything I've thought of but couldn't manage to be coherent about.

Awww.. shucks, you're gonna make me blush!

Well when SG1 is renewed for S11 (have faith, must have faith!!), Ben'll just have to move to Vancouver, won't he? We can make it worth his while...

The ratings are a problem, however. I think part of the problem there is that, for whatever reason, the main networks have been going after the Scifi Friday crowd with their own SF themed programs. Shame on them.

[RyantheGreat]

I think this belief is a mistake. It is a red herring which doesn't address what's really at stake. Sure, it's an easy thing to blame stuff on, but it's still a mis-direction

1) The hard-core Daniel-fans who were upset by MS's departure are not necessarily the same fans who are interested in the Cameron debate.:

I didn't mean to imply they were. I meant that they saw it worked for MS, so they figure it'll work for RDA, as well.

2) Those interested in debating what they see as Cameron's problems are not necessarily those who miss Jack O'Neill (and for some, quite the contrary).

In short, it is a mistake to pin any unhappiness with the way Cam has been written on something other than the way Cam has been written.

If we want Cameron to work, and to appeal to a wide spectrum of fans, then it's that which needs attention. A consistenly well-written Cameron is the key. The assumption that those who see flaws in the way he's been written must simply be pining for O'Neill is a mistake big enough to eat Tokyo. The two are not co-dependent

I agree with this. But I also think the writers have a daunting challenge ahead because many many fans will see Cam in any given situation, and for a little while, at least, are asking themselves.. "What would Jack do here? Could he do it better?"

I wonder if I can illustrate this with another example - my reaction to O'Neill: Jack O'Neill was, in general, a well-written character. There were some flaws, particularly in later seasons re. his "playing dumb" act, but he was on the whole well-rounded, well written and well-played. And he was my least favourite character despite this - and I don't miss him! But because he was generally sound, with a plausible backstory for his character's role and a consistency which complemented it, he wasn't problematic. He was generally plausible - and I still don't miss him!

You see, with Jack not being your favorite character, it's been easier for you to let him go. This isn't so for all those who loved him. I also found his dumb act, while entertaining at first, to be a little implausible past a certain point when no one believed it anymore. Cam, on the other hand, doesn't play dumb. He just has a southern accent, so people assume...

Cameron, on the other hand, is a character I could like a lot more than Jack. There's a difference between enjoying a character and recognising sound writing - it's where the subjective which is hard to explain can either depend on or ignore sound craftsmanship. Carter is my second favourite character on the show (Janet was my number one) but I can see that she was written inconsistently (badly) in Beachhead.

A well-written character is one that, even if you don't get much out of them as a subjective viewer, nevertheless contributes to the whole. I rarely liked O'Neill - I think the only episode I did actually like him was The Fifth Man - but because for the most part he was consistently and plausibly written, he was integral to the success of most episodes.

Cam as an idea for a character is more appealing to me (and may be less appealing to others), but that's not the point - if he's written well, he will not upset anyone by upsetting the quality of an episode, and those that like him can enjoy him and those who aren't Cam-fans will not talk about him much at all; that is a key aim of ensemble writing - every character has a part to play which is solid, not just a plot device, in a coherent piece of work. Cameron was exactly that in Stronghold, and very much not that in Off the Grid: he was made to look stupid in Off the Grid to get the team into trouble - i.e. just plot device.

If the writers stop using Cameron as a plot device and start making him professional all the time, even those fans who don't think he's the best thing since blue jello will find nice things to say about him, and won't be complaining. Even those fans who do miss Jack will accept him, because he will be part of good stuff even while not the focus of their eyes.

It's just going to take a heck of a lot of good writing. For good or ill, Cam is filling Jack's shoes in a lot of people's minds, and those shoes are huge in many of those same minds.

Fortunately, I think things have got better for Cameron in the last couple of episodes of season 9, so we'll see how things progress.

Cross your fingers.

[RyantheGreat]

Ryan the Great... I have to say that I echo Shard's sentiments. Really enjoying your comments and eloquence, Man.

Yeah!! I have my own fan club... Sweet...

[scarimor]

...Cam, on the other hand, doesn't play dumb. He just has a southern accent, so people assume...

I wasn't aware of that connection until I saw it mentioned at Gateworld, me being foreign an'all!

[RyantheGreat]

I wasn't aware of that connection until I saw it mentioned at Gateworld, me being foreign an'all!

It's the strangest thing, but it's true...

[gbbarb]

You said it best. TPTB need to develop characters and story arcs, and stick with it. No reset button, no backpeddling, no changing character personalities in mid-stream. If they bring in a new writer, give them a good background on the characters they are writing so we don't get bizarre behaviors from characters we care about.

Do I like every character on SG1 or SGA? No. But I don't expect the writers to change them to be what I want. That is what makes the shows so interesting. One doesn't need to love every character. TPTB have a bad habit of trying to please all parts of fandom and it just can't be done. It does more damage than anything else. Pick a road to follow and stick with it. That way the fans don't have to watch characters engage in schizo behavior at times.

Amen sister!!

I hate reset buttons, inconsistencies in characters between the writers and general sloppiness because there seem to be no one strong driving force that is paying attention to all of the details and making sure the plan for the season is made and followed

[ChillinTheMost]

Okay, so Mitchell needs a good time travel episode to get the SG-1 trifecta. Any ideas of when he should travel to? Past? Future? He's already sort of been in King Arthur times, so... what else?

What would be a new "feel" for the show for one episode? We've already done the Egyptian thing, the King Arthur thing, the biblical times [sort of, with Vala & Daniel] the 60's...

What would show off Ben's, ummm, talents? A cave man fur? haha. But... no.

1920's gangster style? [Hee - Ben in a fedora, Sam as a flapper. Cute.]

[RyantheGreat]

Hmmmm.... what *would* be a good time travel episode for Cam?

Maybe if he went back to the discovery of the Stargate in Egypt... he might even have had something to do with it, like pointing in the right direction or some such...

[Cpt. Ritter]

I know this isn't a thunk thread, but I was just messing around with the photos for making Cover art for A Prophecy and came up with this. Thank my friend with the caption, I'll be posting in the Thunk thread too. Even though I generally avoid it. Have a laugh.

Spoiler:

Time travel + Mitchell = Good SG-1

[scarimor]

What would show off Ben's, ummm, talents? A cave man fur? haha. But... no.

Cam and Sam as a highwayman team.

[shester]

I like the highwayman idea scarimor. That would be fun.
Sybil

[ChillinTheMost]

Hmmmm.... what *would* be a good time travel episode for Cam?

Maybe if he went back to the discovery of the Stargate in Egypt... he might even have had something to do with it, like pointing in the right direction or some such...

This reminded me of the first episode this season when Mitchell was asking directions to the Stargate, so, in your scenerio, he might actually be pointing in the wrong direction. LOL.

...And SGC never exists because Mitchell points Daniel away from the Stargate!

[ChillinTheMost]

I know this isn't a thunk thread, but I was just messing around with the photos for making Cover art for A Prophecy and came up with this. Thank my friend with the caption, I'll be posting in the Thunk thread too. Even though I generally avoid it. Have a laugh.

Spoiler:

Time travel + Mitchell = Good SG-1

Thanks for sharing, Cpt. Ritter! Cute.