Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[hlndncr]

Thanks for the review of Chain Reaction Trooper.

I enjoy this episode. I do wish we could have seen more of the team working together on this one, or at least scheming together. I can't believe Jack just went rogue without the rest of the team helping him out as much as they could from their end.

Lawrence Dane, who played General Bauer, was BW and JG's runner-up to play General Hammond.

This is the only episode that really center's around General Hammond and his actions; although it would have been fun to see him get in on the action. As much as I enjoy seeing Jack and Maybourne working together I think Jack and Hammond going after Kinsey would have been a real treat.

I love what DSD had to say about his character in this episode:

"One of the things I admire most about the character is that he knows how to play by the rules, but isn't afraid to question or stand up to them if need be. He is not the type of man to kowtow to anyone just because the rule book says he should. . . . He would not allow himself to become a pawn for a government agency that wanted to take over the SGC for some nefarious purpose . . . ."

When General Bauer first comes through the gateroom the reason RDA did a double take as the general leaves is because the woman following him winked at RDA as she walked by.

I don't think Bauer was a part of the NID conspiracy. I really do believe he was a patsy who just had a very narrow mindset that the bad guys could easily manipulate.

Hammond's house and Kinsey's are actually the same. Hammond's was shot from the back and Kinsey's was shot from the front.

I'm surprised Teal'c even stuck around. His work in the Stargate program is based on personal loyalty to Hammond, Jack and the rest of SG-1. He has a rebellion of his own to fight. I think if he believed Jack couldn't get Hammond back he would go to Bray'tac and they would continue to fight for their cause without the Tau'ri.

MW made Tom McBeath (Maybourne) eat about a dozen hot dogs.

When Sam makes her arguments to Bauer I like how she references several past episodes, like A Matter of Time and A Hundred Days.

The dog "Oscar" is RDA's dog Zoe.

That ending was all TMcB. He just grabbed the woman and started dancing down the beach.

In my dreams, Sam and Jack share a kiss before he goes back to being her CO. Here's a version of this from Rachel500: Chain Reaction

[atlantis_babe34]

Glad to see you back atlantis_babe. Who is the other couple?

Thanks its been a while!... Avid Caskett fan as well .. Loving reading all your thoughts on the discussions! i'll jump in when i finally finish uni!

[Sparky She-Demon]

Thanks its been a while!... Avid Caskett fan as well .. Loving reading all your thoughts on the discussions! i'll jump in when i finally finish uni!

Small OT question for you:

Spoiler:

How can you be a Tesla Trooper and be a Magnitt shipper?

[atlantis_babe34]

Small OT question for you:

Spoiler:

How can you be a Tesla Trooper and be a Magnitt shipper?

OT:

Spoiler:

Just a tesla fan, I started the Tesla page on GW and we started a "movement" But I'm not a Tesla/ magnus shipper... I'm a John/ Magnus shipper

[Sparky She-Demon]

That's a ship I cannot bring myself to like, but to each their own.

[Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse]

[...]
In my dreams, Sam and Jack share a kiss before he goes back to being her CO. Here's a version of this from Rachel500: Chain Reaction

Thanks for the link, I like that story very much

[hlndncr]

I want to thank everyone for always being on time with their reviews and I want to apologize for being so lame that I am always late with mine. I started a new case this week that is on a very short deadline and I haven't gotten much sleep in the last few days. I'm very incoherent right now and I want to do this episode justice because it is one of my all time favorites; so if you will please forgive me, I promise to post my review of 2010 tomorrow night.

[hlndncr]

Oh, while you're waiting for my review of 2010, here are a few goodies to enjoy:

Still the best 2010 fic ever written:

The Wrong Timeline Part 1: On Track
The Wrong Timeline Part 2: Changing Tracks
The Wrong Timeline Part 3: Changing Tracks Continued
The Wrong Timeline Part 4: Derailed
The Wrong Timeline Part 5: Derailed Continued
The Wrong Timeline: Making It Right
Back on Track

This is from Rachel500's excellent Aftershocks series. It's worth reading again and again and again IMHO.

Shippy Moments:


Sam is the one who goes to see Jack to convince him to help them


His genuine regret when she tells him she can't have children


His jealousy of her husband in the scene at the cabin


He shows up at the SGC anyway


In the briefing room he tells her he’s still considering getting a dog


He agrees when Joe asks Jack to keep Sam out of the plan

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Oh, while you're waiting for my review of 2010, here are a few goodies to enjoy:

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af243/hlndncr/Gateworld%20Rewatch%20Banners/Tormentcopy.jpg

Still the best 2010 fic ever written:

The Wrong Timeline Part 1: On Track
The Wrong Timeline Part 2: Changing Tracks
The Wrong Timeline Part 3: Changing Tracks Continued
The Wrong Timeline Part 4: Derailed
The Wrong Timeline Part 5: Derailed Continued
The Wrong Timeline: Making It Right
Back on Track

This is from Rachel500's excellent Aftershocks series. It's worth reading again and again and again IMHO.

Shippy Moments:

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...PDVD_064-3.jpg
Sam is the one who goes to see Jack to convince him to help them

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...PDVD_055-2.jpg
His genuine regret when she tells him she can't have children

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...PDVD_066-2.jpg
His jealousy of her husband in the scene at the cabin

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...PDVD_072-6.jpg
He shows up at the SGC anyway

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...PDVD_081-3.jpg
In the briefing room he tells her he’s still considering getting a dog

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...PDVD_086-2.jpg
He agrees when Joe asks Jack to keep Sam out of the plan

i agree. her stories regarding the 2010 timeline was extremely detailed.

[hlndncr]

Hi Shipper friends!

So I'm still struggling with my work schedule and DKScully is having computer problems. Therefore, I'm going to adjust the schedule just a tiny bit.

If this doesn't work for anyone, let me know. We'll work something out.

Revised Season 4 schedule:

Friday, October 18: 2010 - hlndncr
Tuesday, October 22: Absolute Power - IamDKScully
Thursday, October 24: The Light - neverendingimagination
Monday, October 28: Prodigy - Sparky She-Demon
Wednesday, October 30: Entity - Starship Trooper
Friday, November 1: Double Jeopardy - Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
Tuesday, November 5: Exodus - hlndncr

[Lucycat]

Sounds good hlndncr! Looking forward to everyone's reviews!

[AmberLM]

Argh! My muse is really starting to bug me. I keep starting writing fics and then it just goes mid-chapter and I can never think how to end them. Then I start to pick them apart and thinking parts are OOC. If someone finds my muse wandering around here somewhere, please post it back to frustrated@sjshipper!

[neverendingimagination]

Just finished a video inspired by the latest discussions. It was quite a challenge as I limited myself to clips up to and including Beneath the Surface. I found a song that was quite appropriate to the early season 4 character arc and have been playing ever since. I'm not sure whether to post it or keep hold of it for a few more weeks and leave it for shipsgiving.

[hlndncr]

This review is long overdue and I apologize. Unfortunately, I still don't have the time to give it the love it deserves as this is one of my all time favorite episodes.

by Blacky Kitten

Summary
The world is slowly overrun by genocidal accountants. SG-1 realizes the trap they've all fallen into but too late. Except Jack had warned them long ago. They decide to take it all back. Doing Galaxy Quest style maneuvers (but Jack doesn't lose his shirt - darn!) and facing down a bunch of deadly laser pointers the team all parish, but the world is still saved because none of this ever happened . . . err, will happen . . . is happening? (I hate tenses and time travel!) Oh, and Walter gets his name.

Favorite Scene
Hands down for me the scene with Jack and Sam at the cabin is the best of many great scenes. I know there were changes from the original script where Jack walks away instead of Sam. Someone around here has posted it before, but I don't think I could find it again. Anyway, as the scene is played it just is oozing with angst, which is the way I like it. There's hurt and jealousy and pain and still this unresolved longing and unassailable attraction even after years of separation all swirling between them like a sharknado.

Favorite Line
"And we're walking!" That bubble headed tour guide just makes me giggle. Seriously, how can SG-1 not be her favorite team?! But she was right about the "embarkation room." If you watch the early first season episodes even Daniel called it that.

Analysis and Observations
For me this is a near perfect episode. It was a unique, interesting and very satisfying story, but there was room for more and I'm happy they revisited all of this again in the next season. One of the problems for me with time travel stories, which I love, is that when things are put right I'm left feeling a little empty like I'm the only one who showed up at my own surprise party because none of our characters actually had these experiences. I'm changed from knowing something about the possibilities but the characters aren't. So it was a nice idea IMHO to re-approach the Aschen in the context of the "true" timeline.

Now that we have actually passed 2010 one can't help but think about what is the same and what is different from this little detour into and alternate timeline. And you have to ask yourself weather SG-1 did the right thing erasing ten years from the existence. After all they didn't just changed their own lives, they transformed the entire history of the galaxy, possibly two galaxies if you consider that Atlantis was likely never discovered in the Aschen timeline.

So what is the same?
Sadly General Hammond (or really DSD) did die of a sudden heart attack.
Jacob also appears to have died in both timelines (although it is not explicitly stated).
Sam did get promoted to Colonel.
The Goa'uld were defeated and the Jaffa freed.

The differences however are huge!
Kinsey became VP not Pres., resigned in disgrace and eventually got snaked.
Janet did not survive *sniffle*.
The Tollan were wiped out.
Teal'c has hair and no symbiote. He does still have the mark of Apophis.
We are still waiting for the stargate program to become public.

So SG-1 saved the human race, still managed to free the galaxy from goa'uld domination, but many of the overall outcome for themselves personally is still a mixed bag. Was it worth it? Well as a shipper of course I'm going to say yes!

So this brings me to the always sticky subject of Sam's other admires. Now Joe Faxon is really in a class by himself because while the timeline was erased we know that there is at least one scenario in which Sam would choose to marry him. And I think, despite everything, she does love him even at the end. That makes him interesting to me. He's the only person I think was ever a real and serious threat to Jack's place at Sam's side. We know the Jack who lived through the Aschen timeline felt it. The scene between them in Sam's lab is just bristling with Alpha male posturing and hostile verile energy.

My opinion of Joe is that he is the anti-Jack. He's smooth and cool. He operates within the system. He's soft spoken and charming. But he's still got the intelligence, charisma and wit to rise above his peers. And honestly for me while he seems all straight laced I can see a bit of a daredevil bad boy lurking in him. He did swipe that GDO off the President's desk without a bit of difficulty. I can see why Sam would go for him. He's real competition.

But is he a good guy? He did after all agree to the secret sterilization of a large portion of the human race. He was double crossed, but still in on it to a certain extent. I'm not saying I give him a pass for that. But as someone who has worked in high levels of Washington politics I can totally see how even a good person who is generally quite savvy could unwittingly find themselves lunging toward the wrong side of ethical in a situation like that.

I have more to say on this topic, but I think it would be better placed in a discussion about 2001 comparing Aschen timeline Joe to our timeline Joe.

At any rate I love Joe. Since Sam doesn't want him (and I can't have Jack) I'd gladly take Joe for myself. No complaints here.

Sam and Jack
The angstiness just oozes out of this episode. So many moments of just palpable regret and longing. Clearly they still love each other very much despite all the bad memories, arguments and regrets. Jack still cares deeply about Sam's happiness even when he is trying to hide it. And Sam can't hide the fact that her own frustration at him is born of a deep need to hold on to their connection.

I really glad they did not end up this way. But a part of me regrets that they didn't go through something like this. I know I'm mean to want them to be tortured by the angst because it gives me a thrill. But it would have been nice if their would have been real, true barriers in the way they had to overcome. I mean they had the regs, but that was just a fear of the unknown and a lack of imagination on their part. A real threat to their relationship from a worthy suitor and an a principled philosophical disagreement that would have created true doubts as to their compatibility is just so much more interesting than what we got. Of course, after overcoming all that I would have been even more annoyed at their relationship not receiving the resolution it deserved; so I really shouldn't complain.

Anyway this ep is a 10/10 in my book and the shippiness is a close 9/10. I'm always wanting more.

[Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse]

Thanks for the excellent review, hlndncr

It's one of my favorite episodes too - not just because of bitter, angry, scruffy hot Jack



It's an interesting story because the Aschen are doing their work so quietly, killing an entire race without firing a single shot. It's bound to be found out too late, very clever work indeed.

I crave angst just like you, hlndncr and this really is an angsty episode, if not the angstiest one?

The sad thing is that none of them will remember the events that took place, it's character growth happening in our heads only - if Sam had known she still needed Jack in her life even after marrying Joe, she might never had dated but had gone straight after the real thing () instead.

Ikorni's In the thirteenth hour is a very good, very angsty (M rated) AU fic that combines the events of the 2001 & 2010 episodes.