Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[hedwig]

[Sparky She-Demon]

Nice pictures, hedwig!

[hedwig]

Nice pictures, hedwig!

Thanks. Though I goofed. I thought I was putting them in the appreciation thread.

[Sparky She-Demon]

Don't worry about it, hedwig.

[IamDKScully]

Besides...we do appreciate them

[Sparky She-Demon]

Besides...we do appreciate them

Of course we do!

[hlndncr]

I'm going to bring this back to the rewatch discussion and try to catch up with the episodes I haven't commented on yet.

So I'm going all the way back to Upgrades.

First of all I think the whole episode was a brilliant idea. Giving our heroes super powers for a day was just super fun. And each on of them had powers that enhanced their natural tendencies and personalities. Daniel is excited because he can read really fast. Sam is focused and precise, writing a book and plays great pool. Jack is manic and breaks a lot of things.

Teal'c needs no super power.

The episode idea was BW and he had a great time with it. The original script had so many effects they had to pull back because there was no way they could afford to film it. But BW insisted that the bar fight stay in. He really wanted the team to get into a bar fight.

The bar scene was fun. We got to see the team letting loose and misbehaving. It is AT who did the trick shot in the scene. They brought in an expert, but MW bet her $100 she couldn't make the shot herself. So she did. Then he bet her double or nothing she couldn't do it again. She did it again. Then he bet her she couldn't do it a third time. Not wanting to tempt fate she didn't take that action. She should have. She sunk the shot three times in a row and they never used the expert. Yes, AT is just that cool!

Now we come to Anise/Freya. Blech! Vanessa Angel was supposed to be Stargate's answer to Seven of Nine. It was the network who asked for a sexy female alien. This is mocked later in Wormhole X-Treme. It was also quickly dumped because what Seven's costume destroyed for all but a few viewers with more hormones than brain cells Jeri Ryan and a deep and complex character was able to save for the rest of the audience. VO as A/F was no Seven of Nine.

One thing I will say for A/F is that she was really the only Tok'ra we got to see as two distinct personalities. I liked that, but I think it raises other questions for me in Upgrade's companion episode, D&C. More on that later.

Right from the beginning we see that Jack doesn't trust Anise, mainly because she's a Tok'ra. Sam, for reasons that baffle me given the violent physical and mental violation she suffered by a Tok'ra, has always been more accepting of them. Then again, if she had realized Freya would go after her man maybe she would have been less trusting.

We learn here that Freya likes "the tactile sensation of writing." What we learn from her later about her society added to her choice of clothing (or lack thereof) makes me wonder if she comes from a more primitive culture - you know with the lusty buxom wenches who can't control their primal urges. But I may be getting ahead of myself.

You can probably tell I'm not a fan and I'm glad she didn't stick around long. Three episodes was three too many for me.

Let's switch to the armbands. I thought they looked pretty cool. Apparently, they were a real pain because they wouldn't stay on and they cost a lot of money too.

As for how they work, according to plot! I don't have a problem with different reactions and timing from each one. A virus and the antibody released to combat the virus would effect each person differently. In fact, it's probably a good thing SG1 couldn't take the armbands off when General Hammond ordered them to because without going through the entire cycle the antibody wouldn't have been released and it could have killed them.

What it did do was lower their inhibitions. So Sam and Jack get snippy with one another, which I thought was cute. Even just in the way they looked at one another (and this is before the force field scene) I thought there was a lot more openness than we usually see between them.

Speaking of the force field scene. I thought this was just brilliant. The first time I watched it was intense but it also seemed a bit abrupt, but I couldn't put my finger on it. I had no idea they were setting me up for more later. We saw Daniel and Teal'c's point of view and then later in D&C we learn what was going on with Jack and Sam. I loved how these two episodes were inter connected (and both filmed at the same time) but the stories were independent.

Fun fact, the force field is a giant piece of plastic wrap stretched across the hall. You can see RDA's face smoosh as he runs up against it.

[hlndncr]

Shippy moments from Upgrades:

She suggests O’Malley's and he agrees


She orders a diet Coke, which he finds amusing


The argument in front of Hammond, “Carter wanted a stake” “Actually it was your idea”


He checks on her when she starts to get hot


Jack going back for her when her armband fails


She worries about him when she wakes up and finds him passed out


Jack trying to get her out from behind the force-shield and her pleading with him to leave her especially when they hear the Jaffa

[hlndncr]

Moving on to Crossroads.

This one is not really a favorite. I do find many of the Jaffa episodes boring and repetitive. However, I do think this adds an interesting layer to Teal'c's character. He has a lost love.

In my view T and Shon'ac were childhood sweethearts, but she chose to be a temple priestess and that broke his heart. He never completely got over her. His disappointment would have been compounded knowing of her devotion to those he would later come to realize were false gods.

My understanding of T's family status at this time is that he and Drey'ac were not married. She had their marriage dissolved and married T's friend Fro'tac. I don't see anything in cannon that says he and Drey'ac remarried. They still loved one another, but T accepted the loss of his family as a necessary sacrifice to fight for the freedom of his people.

I also think that T did not show any weakness with Shon'ac nor did he jump to follow her. He did show strong emotion when he was around her (in an understated Teal'cy sort of way), but he certainly wasn't under her spell or at her beck and call. At first he did not believe her and was incredibly harsh in pronouncing his skepticism. It took a lot of convincing to get him to trust her word and accept what she was telling him could be possible.

I love that Bray'tac considers Jack T's apprentice. I don't think that's a joke or a mistake. To Bray'tac Jack is young and headstrong and would require training from a seasoned warrior like T. In Bray'tac's eyes Jack absolutely is the apprentice. This hurts Jack's ego a bit I think. But he does have some fun with it, which T ignores because T ignores a lot of Jack's childishness as T is in fact older, wiser and more experienced.

I also like that Jack picks up on the romance between T and Shon'ac. Daniel is incredulous, but Jack understands forbidden love (he's looking at Sam when talking about T and Shon'ac's "history" and "sparkage") and he knows it when he sees it.

I thought Tanith was a great idea for a villain (I feel sorry for Hebron) and Peter Wingfield is brilliant. Unfortunately, I think they needed a less well known guest star to get full usage out of that character. Wingfield was difficult to schedule so they couldn't bring him back as much as the PTB would have liked and eventually he asked for too much money so they offed him most unceremoniously, which was also a huge shame.

We get A/F back again. Ick! And it's clear that even her skimpy outfits aren't enough to overcome Jack's disgust with her. Of course Freya is more human and conciliatory so Jack prefers to work through her. This I think gives Freya the wrong impression.

The greeting from Jacob is shippy IMHO because he specifically mentions Jack. Now this could be a courtesy because Jack is Sam's CO. And while I don't think Jacob really thinks there is anything going on between them I think Jacob likes Jack and if he weren't Sam's CO Jacob be OK with him having a relationship with Sam.

[hlndncr]

I don't have time to get to D&C, WoO and Watergate tonight.

I'll just spam you with some art and shippy pics from these eps and come back to discuss tomorrow.

Divide and Conquer:

Window of Opportunity:

Watergate:

[hlndncr]

Divide and Conquer:

He’s got his arm around her as they come down the ramp, right in front of Hammond


Their first discussion on being za'tarc's


Him pushing Anise away and not answering the question of whether there is someone else


His deciding to sacrifice his brain for her


The look as she tries to stop him as he's walking past in the corridor


Her realization of what they were hiding


Her discussion with him on why they were not telling the whole truth


Jack's confession about his feelings for Sam 'I would rather die myself than lose Carter'




The moment at the force-shield


Hers (off screen) and their agreement to 'leave it in the room'

[hlndncr]

Window of Opportunity:

Her coming to him in the commissary and asking him what she’s going to say next, him teasing her back that he knew she was going to say that




The kiss


The look in the briefing room the next loop


The look of pain on her face when he says how much it hurt to lose his son


His look when Daniel asked him if he took advantage of there never being any consequences

[hlndncr]

Watergate:

Cute look between them when the gate won’t engage and Jack sends Sam off to fix it.


Marchov's and Sam's discussion re Jack 'is he always like this?' 'actually this is quite charming'


Look between Jack and Sam when Marchov talks about losing the people she works with and knew well


Jack tells Sam good luck as they go through the gate and Sam responds with “Thank you.”

[brendini]

Thanks! Yeah I thought it might have been a bit far North to be Cowboy Country since it borders Canada! Still, Calgary has cowboys (being honest, I just wanna see Jack in his tight black tshirt, plaid shirt, a Stetson and a pair of skintight Levi's! )

I'd rather see him in Wranglers than Levis > lol

[Wild Flower]

Great reviews and pics Hlndncr! Thanks for posting them.