Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Sparky She-Demon]

Looks like this was your equivalent of me watching "Demons".

[Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse]

Thanks for an excellent review, selene I don't like Daniel in this episode either, he really can be an ass when he wants to - his moral superiority being the worst part of it.

[Samfan13]

Thanks for an excellent review, selene I don't like Daniel in this episode either, he really can be an ass when he wants to - his moral superiority being the worst part of it.

AGREED! To me this is also an episode I'd rather avoid because of Daniel's behaviour... it makes me cringe every time

[hlndncr]

Thanks for the review selene, but it looks like I'm going to have to stand up for Daniel a little bit here.

But let's start at the top. I liked that Daniel was given a quest and a purpose after Sha're died. I never thought they used either of these storylines as effectively as they could have. However, the search for the harsicis child was good for Daniel I think because it gave him purpose and a continuing connection to his wife who he loved so completely. I think it was also a bitter sweet quest for him. While he was keeping a promise to Sha're and still had a piece of her to hold on to, it was also the child of his bitterest enemy, Apophis.

Frankly, I think Daniel's teammates and supposedly closest friends were rather insensitive throughout toward the emotional turmoil this whole mission must have been for Daniel. They were so focused on the military objectives I think they ignored the human aspects here. This wasn't a downed glider they were going to strip for parts. This was a baby with very a personal connection to the team. And they weren't just in a goa'uld pyramid, but a holy place for the Jaffa and others.

But I'm getting ahead of myself because I do want to say that the search for Keb itself never made a lot of sense to me. How did Amonet know where Keb was? And who could have told Apophis about it? In fact, it seems that everyone knew where to find this mysterious world except SG-1. And the boy was sent there months before, but the nursemaid just hid out in the woods by the gate with no supplies until she was captured shortly before SG-1 arrived?

I feel a little sorry for Teal'c. Not only did he not have much to do in this episode, but he had to stand by as Bra'tac, his mentor and father figure, praised his dying apprentice as the bravest Jaffa he had ever known. If it were me I'd be thinking, "Wait a minute! I stood up against a guy revered as a god and began a rebellion to free all our people. What exactly did this other dude do?!"

I think Jack may have started off cranky because Bra'tac was showing him up, but he still showed a real closed mindedness and lack of respect even before they entered the temple. I think he also discounted Daniel's ability to do what he's supposed to do, which is communicate with other cultures. He really didn't listen to Daniel and ultimately he only lowered his weapon because of Bra'tac. His stubborn closed mindedness almost got them all killed. Daniel did try to let Jack know they were in no danger there if Jack would respect Oma and the power she was showing them.

Now Daniel does get carried away and a little irrational when he finds something new and mind-blowing like the road to another plane of existence. Remember he did this before in The Torment of Tantalus with the meaning of life stuff.

I do agree he (or Oma) should not have turned the gun on Jack. I was raised by a hunter and pointing a gun at any person is always an absolute no, no. I don't know if that is a reflection of Daniel's extreme frustration with Jack's hostile attitude or a warning from Oma.

I think it's interesting that Daniel tries to convince Jack that he could learn to do things with his mind and the monk says he can't teach Jack what he already knows Jack rejects the notion, but because of Jack's Ancient gene there are in fact quite a few things he later does just with his mind.

Jack's planning on this mission was pretty poor too. He acknowledged they could get into a fight with Apophis and would need more fire power. But he brough only 4 more people and left them at the gate . . . against Apophis' 2000 troops! Good thing Oma was there and she likes Daniel.

I do see the unity between Jack and Sam, but I think that may have been a bit of a problem. Now it's one thing to follow orders without question, but as selene pointed out this didn't seem like military discipline but personal loyalty. Sam is usually the buffer between Daniel and Jack when they start butting heads. But she sides so fully with Jack and the military mindset she alienates Daniel and does not really add anything to the mission. I think we see this single front again in the Other Side until Sam maybe sees for the first time what Jack is really capable of and it gives her some pause. But I'll save that discussion for my review next season.

I will admit that I do hold a special place for this episode. Before I watched Stargate as a series I would catch an odd episode here and there in syndication. This was one of them I remember seeing and being moved by Daniel's story. One beautiful moment is when Daniel returns the baby to Oma's care and the baby reaches out and grabs Daniel's shirt like he doesn't want Daniel to go.

I think after this episode Daniel looses his purpose and the character gets a little lost and that makes me a little sad because Daniel was really the character that first attracted me to Stargate and I still love him (at least until they butched him up in season 9-10).

[hedwig]

One thing I've wondered about this Harcesis child is how he could only have aged a few months in the year since he was born in Season 2 "Secrets". He's still a baby apparently not yet walking in this episode when he should be at least 1+ years old, and apparently then grew into a full grown boy by later in Season 4.

[hlndncr]

One thing I've wondered about this Harcesis child is how he could only have aged a few months in the year since he was born in Season 2 "Secrets". He's still a baby apparently not yet walking in this episode when he should be at least 1+ years old, and apparently then grew into a full grown boy by later in Season 4.

I wondered about that too. Then I did some calculations. The child was born in Secrets, which aired about 18 months before Maternal Instinct. We don't know how much time actually passed in canon between these episodes. The babies they used (twin boys) were just a little over a year old and MS said they were about the same age as his child (the one Vaitiare Bandera was carrying when they filmed Secrets); so they were not that far off with the in story age of the child, at most a few months. I know that can make a big difference when you are talking babies because they change and grow so much in the first couple of years, but I'm OK with it as portrayed. It was close enough for me.

In Absolute Power the boy essentially tells Daniel that Oma aged him, and in fact he turns out to be an ascended being, which means he can appear as any age if he chooses because he has no actual physical form any longer.

[AmberLM]

I agree, I can't stand arrogant, cocky Daniel. Then again, stubborn Jack is just as bad.

[IamDKScully]

Admittedly, not a favorite of mine either.

I also cannot stand smug Daniel. He can be extremely harsh and he doesn't even see it

Spoiler:

(I'm thinking the scene in Unending when he verbally attacks Vala -- I cry with her every time)

But like Amber said ^ Jack is just as guilty sometimes. I think we expect it more of his character though and that's why Daniel's attitude bothers us.

Another thing that really bugs me in this episode is the CSI narratives given by Bra'tac and Teal'c. I understand they are way-of-the-universe warrior types but that doesn't give them super forensic powers. That whole bit when they find the dead Jaffa grates on my nerves.

Fun lines from an otherwise not so fun show...

I love Jack's "Son of a *****!" just after the opening sequence.

Bra'tac to Jack as he gets ready to follow Daniel into the temple: "I have dreamed of find this place twice as long as you have been alive. I will accompany you."

This is funny to me just because of the whole battle of who's in charge between those two.

Jack: "If we happen to make it out of here in one piece, remind me to harm Daniel severely."

And finally...the last scene

Jack: Daniel? Shoes. (Not really all that funny but gave me a giggle.)

[Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse]

Admittedly, not a favorite of mine either.

I also cannot stand smug Daniel. He can be extremely harsh and he doesn't even see it

Spoiler:

(I'm thinking the scene in Unending when he verbally attacks Vala -- I cry with her every time)

[...]

Spoiler:

Oh yes, that scene from Unending is just horrible and I don't understand why he treats her like that. I cry too.

[neverendingimagination]

Part 1

Season 3 Episode 21 - Crystal Skull
Aired – March 3, 2000
Directed by – Brad Turner
Teleplay written by - Brad Wright
Story by Michael Greenburg and Jaared Paul.

General Rating : 8/10
Shippiness rating : 7/10

Story:

During an exploratory mission with the M.A.L.P. the SGC discover an enormous pyramid. Daniel is ecstatic to find the pyramid contains a crystal skull upon a stone pedestal. He explains his grandfather Nicholas Ballard found a similar skull in the 70’s. Hammond agrees to let SG1 explore the pyramid.

Daniel looks into the eyes of the crystal and a field of energy envelops him. Sam is monitoring lepton radiation when the levels spike. Teal’c zats the skull and Daniel disappears. Sam passes out and Jack carries her to the gate with Teal’c in tow.

Teal’c retrieves the skull whilst Sam and Jack are recovering. Daniel wakes up inside the pyramid and discovers Teal’c can neither hear nor see him. Siler and Daniel’s assistant study the skull and make no headway.

With few other options SG1 decide to talk to Nick. Janet explains Nick’s breakdown and Daniel provides amusing commentary that only he can hear.

SG1 visit Nick and bring him back to the SGC. Nick explains that when he looked into the eyes of the skull a field of energy surrounded him, he found himself in a huge cavern. Giant aliens appeared like spectres in the mist and spoke to him in Mayan, ‘Oo ya waaling waaling wey tayil.’ It translates as ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend’ but they cannot understand its meaning.

Daniel discovers his grandfather can see him and uses him to communicate with Jack and the rest of SG1.

They return to the planet and, after Nick puts the skull back on the pedestal, Daniel looks into its eyes again. The energy builds and Sam, Jack and Nick are transported. Teal’c is not transported and returns to the SGC.

The Giant Alien’s appear and speak the same words ‘Oo ya waaling waaling wey tayil’. Daniel deduces that Teal’c wasn’t transported because he’s Jaffa, the Goa’uld are the alien’s enemies. He shouts that they are enemies of the Goa’uld. He explains that they are explorers and want to exchange culture and knowledge. The alien’s agree to let Nick stay with them as he has met them before. Nick promises to tell Daniel everything he learns. Sam, Jack and Daniel look into the eyes of the skull and return to the SGC.

General Discussion:

The ‘look but don’t touch’ adage fails spectacularly.

Teal’c, as usual, risks his health to save his teammates, his family, but, the effects of the radiation don’t make sense. He, and all of SG1, passed out when the skull was first activated, but not the second time. The radiation spiked in the same way, both times, but their bodies responded differently. I would imagine that the radiation emitted during the phase/dimension shift is absorbed somehow during the transition but, was released into ‘our’ dimension, when the process was prevented from completing.

On the subject of phase shifting or being transported to other dimensions, Teal’c ‘feels’ something when Daniel attempts to communicate, and Sam, feels a chill when Daniel wonders if he is dead. These incidents do not fit with the future presentation of the way multiple dimensions interact with each other. When Sam and Cam are trapped in season 9 no one can sense they are there. The bugs in season 6 were a special case as their genetic make-up allowed them to interact with matter in another space dimension – something we see no other living creature do (excluding the interaction with Merlin’s ‘cloak’ which was designed specifically for that purpose).

I thought it took Daniel too long to realise Nick could see him. It was obvious in the mental health centre when Nick looked straight at him.

I find Daniel’s commentary rather amusing. It’s a new insight into his character; we get to hear his internal thoughts. He has obviously learnt his sarcasm from Jack – something he has perfected by season 9.

As always Daniel has his irritating moments, he is still very naïve and his excitement over the discovery shows tremendously. His desire to explore and discover puts precedence over safety and potential health risks, again. Yet again, Jack has to bring him down to earth – in a way only Jack can. Later, Daniel jumps to the worst possible conclusion, that he’s dead, whines when he realises no one can see him, and plays the injured party over his fall out with his grandfather, when by all accounts he was just as much to blame. Then when his grandfather tries to apologise, he is flippant. Nick has the grace to apologise to Daniel when he finds out he was right about the pyramids, but Daniel fails to reciprocate.

Overall, this isn’t one of the worst Daniel centric episodes. The culture and history, combined with the comedy keep the episode afloat. It could easily have become a ‘woe me’ whine fest. It is well written and structured, with Brad Wright at the helm it’s no wonder. It contains all the essential elements that make up a good Stargate episode, mystery, tension, comedy and in-jokes.

I have to wonder what would have happened if it was Jack that got transported. Obviously, Nick wouldn’t have had the same motivation to help but it still could have proved interesting. I wonder what Jack would have got up to? There could definitely been more comedy moments with Jack seeing or hearing things he shouldn’t, and the potential for him to collect a plethora of material to use against Daniel.

History/Cultural background:

I found the crystal skull myth fascinating and decided to do some research into some of the concepts mentioned in the episode.

‘It was created from a single piece of crystal, against the grain, with the tools of the time”

‘If one were to look into the eyes of the skull they would be teleported to see Aliens.”

The energy field emitted by the ‘glowing’ skull.

Mayan myths suggest there 13 ‘crystal’ skulls located across the Mayan empire. Each was believed to posses supernatural powers, including healing, be hubs of energy and hold he ability to predict the future. Others believe they are bad luck. There are many of these skulls around the world, including the British Crystal Skull, made from a misty quartz, the Paris Crystal Skull, an Amethyst skull from Guatemala and a Central American Skull nicknamed ‘ET’ because of its elongated head shape and overbite.

The most famous Crystal Skull is the Mitchell-Hedges Skull; found in 1926 by Anna Le Guillon Mitchell-Hedges in Lubaantun/Lubaantum ruins in Southern Belize. There are many stories and theories surrounding it’s discovery including a suggestion that F.A. Mitchell-Hedges found the skull and hid it in the ruins for his daughter to find.

There are facts however, that are undisputable. It is anatomically correct, and was created with great attention to detail, without the globular prominence or superciliary ridges, which are characteristics of a female. It 5” by 7” by 5”, and has a removable mandible cut from the same piece of crystal. Just like the crystal skull in Stargate, it was carved against the grain and there were no discernable tool marks. The common theory is that the skull was roughly carved using diamond, then polished and shaped with solutions of water and silicon crystal sand. Other suggestions are ruby, sapphire, corundum or cardorundum powders.

Getting back to Stargate, this is the part I find fascinating. The zygomatic arches (the bone arch at the sides of the cranium) are separate from the main skull and act as light pipes, reflecting light from the base of the skull to the light sockets. The eye sockets are concave, acting like miniature lenses that transfer light into the upper cranium. Inside the skull is a ribbon prism and tiny light tunnels that brighten and magnify any object held underneath it.

This feat of creation means that if a light source is placed underneath, light reflects around the cranium and the eyes appear to glow.

The mandible fits perfectly into two sockets and there are two tiny holes in the base of the cranium that supports the skull. A light breeze causes the skull to nod and the mandible moves up and down giving the impression the skull is talking or articulating.

There is still much suspicion over what purpose the skulls actually served.

Many people claim that they have seen the skull change colour, heard ringing noises or experiences sensations of heat or cold. Others have seen strange shapes in the eye sockets or claim to have had visions of the future.

Frank Dorland studied the skull in 1970. He is of the opinion that because both the crystal and the brain emit electric like radio waves the two interact. Looking at the crystal stimulates the magnetism collected in the cerebellum; this increases the energy entering the brain and affects the poles, leading to the psychic phenomena.

The creators of this episode obviously put a lot of time and effort into creating this episode plot. It follows the same pattern of a rich cultural and historical background, which makes the Goa’uld so believable. It uses all the information we know of the crystal skulls and weaves the threads to form a rich tapestry to back up the idea.

This in-depth research also makes the episode a greater waste. There was a potential goldmine of possibilities to explore with these aliens or even just the crystal skulls themselves as teleportation devices. The aliens could have used the spectre like creations to hide their real identities, or they could really look like that. I can understand that Jan Rube?s may have only wanted to do one episode but there are so many ways to get around that. Nick dying whilst he was with the aliens and his final request being that Daniel was allowed to retrieve his body, Anti-aging technology, the possibilities are endless.

The Team:

This episode shows how close the team has become. Teal’c teasing Jack, Jack and Sam sharing looks, the way Jack believes Daniel is in the room straight away when Nick says ‘Jack don’t be such an ass.’ He doesn’t even question it. They know each other so well.

We also see how deeply Hammond cares for his flagship team; the phone call to his granddaughter is a key moment. It reminds us that everyone involved has a vested interest in each other. They are all emotionally attached and it makes the tough decisions in following seasons all the more touching and heartbreaking.

[neverendingimagination]

Part 2

Shippy moments:

There are several shippy moments in this episode, four of which are in the following graphic.

The closeness between Sam and Jack does stand out at this point; they put slightly less effort into finding Daniel than they have for each other. Daniel’s line ‘What? No working through the night? I’d do it for you.’ says it all. I think this is the first glimpse we have that they both feel more for each other than they should. Previous comments and actions could have been interpreted as flirting but this moment, to me, defines their relationship as being more than friends.

This is the start of the story arc in which they admit to themselves how they feel about the other. Obviously, they have confronted the possibility before, the alternate versions of themselves giving them food for thought, but I don’t think their subconscious actions have set off the shippy radar before now. Also, things are very relaxed between them, they sit close together, share ‘in’ jokes and Sam still openly smiles when he makes her laugh. Their relationship is fresh, warm and light. They know each other well and the elephant is still well outside the room.


Favourite Quotes:

Sam - Sir these are leptons!
Jack – Get out!

Daniel - There has to be some sort of radiation suit or-
Jack - Hey. If you’d been listening, you’d know that nintendos pass through everything.
Daniel - I heard.
Sam hides a grin.
Jack - Everything.

Jack – Help me up.
Teal’c – Dr Fraiser does not believe you are well enough to undertake such a mission.
Jack flops out of bed onto the floor
Teal’c – Dr Fraiser is usually correct in such matters.
Teal’c tosses Jack back onto the bed.
Jack (muffled) - Thank you
Teal’c – You are welcome O’Neill

Sam: I can’t believe I’m gonna suggest this, but what about Daniel’s grandfather?
Daniel and Jack (in unison): Nick?
Carter: Well, he claimed that the skull teleported him somewhere. He may be the only person who actually knows where Daniel is.
Fraiser: I’m not so sure, Major. I’ve already taken the liberty of looking him up.
Daniel (cringing): Oh you didn’t.
Fraiser: His current address is a psychiatric institution in Oregon.
Jack: Psychiatric?
Fraiser: Apparently his failure to prove the crystal skull was more than just a curiosity caused a severe mental breakdown from which he’s never been able to fully recover. Nick checked himself in.
Carter: Why wouldn’t Daniel have told us that?
Daniel: Oh, yes, by the way he’s insane.
Fraiser: Daniel was a regular visitor there up until four years ago, right before he joined the Stargate program.
Daniel: Oh please, he kicked me out. We had a huge fight.
Fraiser: Apparently, Nick still talks about him all the time.
Daniel: He doesn’t want anything to do with me.
Fraiser: The doctor I spoke to says any friends of Dr Jackson’s are welcome.
Daniel (surprised): What?

Trivia

This is the first episode where the alien planet is entirely CGS.

The cast had trouble keeping a straight face during some of Michael’s commentary lines. Their characters weren’t supposed to be able to see him but they couldn’t help but react.

[hedwig]

Excellent review.

One thing I've always been curious about is why Nick was in the asylum for so many years without (apparently) any "improvement".

[Sparky She-Demon]

Good review, nei!

[neverendingimagination]

I'm sure Janet said he checked himself in. In that case could he stay there indefinitely? I mean if he's paying his medical bills and not being a problem, would he be asked to leave if he thought he still had problems?

[hedwig]

I'm sure Janet said he checked himself in. In that case could he stay there indefinitely? I mean if he's paying his medical bills and not being a problem, would he be asked to leave if he thought he still had problems?

Good question. But even though he checked himself in, I thought they said he'd been there for 20 years. He must have had a whole lot of money to be able to stay there. I would have thought that at some point the staff would say they couldn't do anything more for him and since he was no threat to anyone, he could certainly take care of himself.