Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[hlndncr]

And you know, you could always write your own review regardless of whose turn it is. At least, I think that was the original concept: have one person per episode assigned to keep track of the rewatch and encourage others to share their views of the episode(s). But it usually just ends up with the assigned person writing a complete review and others reacting to that or giving their own input, just not as elaborate.

If you look back at the last rewatch we did you will see that there is lots of discussion and analysis from many different people. The review was never meant to be the last and only word on the episode. It was just a way to open up the discussion. That's why I don't think assigning the review to multiple people is necessary. Absolutely everyone is encouraged to way in. You don't have to have "the assignment" to be able to speak about it. This is supposed to be participatory and interactive.

[hlndncr]

Thanks for the review, Hlndncr! I am glad that I'm not alone in liking this episode. I wouldn't go so far as to say that it is my favorite, but as you pointed out, several rather pivotal things happened in this episode. I think that post-100 days SG1 was much much stronger (once Jack and Sam mended their fences...he did sort of brush her off at the end there) in terms of bonding that pre-100 days.

I agree that I love the team bonding. In addition to Teal'c teasing Jack, you have Danial razzing Teal'c a bit:

A falling star. That's uh, that's what we call fire rain where we come from. In our culture, you're supposed to make a wish.

On Chulak, we call it tal'pak'rye.

Which means, uh…falling star.

Also when Jack talks about his team you can hear the fondness in his voice, for example:

Laira: Many of us fear the fire rain will come again. Do you?

No. If Daniel was right, and he always is, it'd be another hundred and fifty years before that happens again.

The only thing I disagree about is that the kid was stupid - yes, he probably should have stayed with the others, but he did figure out that the cave was where the people stayed in the last meteor attack. I don't recall Daniel saying anything about that, so I thought the kid was clever in putting two and two together.

Actually, it was Daniel and Teal'c who told him:

Look at this. It's a cooking utensil. Which probably means that at some point, a number of people spent time here.

Perhaps this cave provided a means for a small number of Edorans to survive the last meteor bombardment.

GARREN: The ancestors.

Then he and his girlfriend take off to the caves because "Daniel said there's nothing you could do." Only there was something they could do. THEY COULD FLEE! Which is exactly what Daniel, Jack, and his mother all told him.

And why didn't he at least tell the other villagers who didn't want to go through the stargate about the caves? They might have lived. Instead, he just leaves them out in the open to die.

Sorry, but he is still a grade A idiot in my mind!

[fems]

If you look back at the last rewatch we did you will see that there is lots of discussion and analysis from many different people. The review was never meant to be the last and only word on the episode. It was just a way to open up the discussion. That's why I don't think assigning the review to multiple people is necessary. Absolutely everyone is encouraged to way in. You don't have to have "the assignment" to be able to speak about it. This is supposed to be participatory and interactive.

Isn't that what I said?

I was simply saying that my original interpretation of the rewatch was that everyone willing would write a review, but usually it's only the person who had the episode assigned to them that writes an entire review to which others react and give some input of their own. So, it's usually one review and the rest is reactions/interpretations, not multiple elaborate reviews.

[hlndncr]

Yeah, but they could have tried. Laira (and the rest of her remaining people for that matter) just comes across as a quitter: every time something bad happens they just grieve for a hundred days and move on. I'm not saying they should have abandoned the harvest but Jack managed to be digging around the gate site the entire time, so why couldn't the other villagers? Heck, if they'd all pitched in then they wouldn't have had to work there everyday and could have done it in shifts while the rest of them worried over the harvest and rebuilding. Jack would have been able to help out more with both too if his time wasn't 'wasted' on digging around because others helped him out.

Not to mention that it was Laira's son who was responsible for getting Jack stranded there so it wouldn't hurt the boy or even Laira to take some responsibility and offer to help Jack out. If not for Jack to get home then at least in the hopes of getting their friends and families back.

And for all we know the naquadah could have been removed by the villagers. Even if that wouldn't be possible then Jack could have dialed the SGC to let them know he and the other Edorans had survived but that there was some kind of iris over the gate, probably melted naquadah that they needed to remove before he could go through the wormhole.

I get what you're saying and I don't entirely disagree. I think they should have tried harder to find the stargate and get their own people home.

The way you put it makes me wonder if the 100 days of mourning could be a cultural thing.

I may be off on this one, but it seems to me that unburying the gate may have made it harder to be rescued.

Here's how Sam explained it:

Yes, Sir. When he [Sokar] tried to breach the iris by bombarding it with a particle beam. Sub-atomic particles barely small enough to reintegrate produced energy as they decayed.

HAMMOND: Which caused the iris to heat up.

Exactly. Now, if we could do the same thing we could melt the hardened naquada barrier just above the event horizon and create a pocket of superheated gas.

HAMMOND: And then what?

Well, then all we have to do is open the Gate again, Sir. The unstable vortex it normally generates would then be allowed to expand into that pocket and create an even larger cavern. One person might be able to go through, Sir, and dig it out.

So the particle beam would weaken/melt the iris, but the pocket of gas created as a byproduct would clear it away. If the gate were dug up, there would be no pocket of gas to expand and blow out the hardened naquadah. Thus my take on the situation is that the gate actually needed to be buried in order for Sam's plan to work.

[hlndncr]

Isn't that what I said?

I was simply saying that my original interpretation of the rewatch was that everyone willing would write a review, but usually it's only the person who had the episode assigned to them that writes an entire review to which others react and give some input of their own. So, it's usually one review and the rest is reactions/interpretations, not multiple elaborate reviews.

I was elaborating based on my previous experience. It wasn't a criticism of what you said. It was an endorsement from a different point of view.

The same sort of thing we would like to encourage in the discussion of the episodes. If someone wants to make a similar point in different words that is totally welcomed.

[fems]

I get what you're saying and I don't entirely disagree. I think they should have tried harder to find the stargate and get their own people home.

The way you put it makes me wonder if the 100 days of mourning could be a cultural thing.

I may be off on this one, but it seems to me that unburying the gate may have made it harder to be rescued.

Here's how Sam explained it:

Yes, Sir. When he [Sokar] tried to breach the iris by bombarding it with a particle beam. Sub-atomic particles barely small enough to reintegrate produced energy as they decayed.

HAMMOND: Which caused the iris to heat up.

Exactly. Now, if we could do the same thing we could melt the hardened naquada barrier just above the event horizon and create a pocket of superheated gas.

HAMMOND: And then what?

Well, then all we have to do is open the Gate again, Sir. The unstable vortex it normally generates would then be allowed to expand into that pocket and create an even larger cavern. One person might be able to go through, Sir, and dig it out.

So the particle beam would weaken/melt the iris, but the pocket of gas created as a byproduct would clear it away. If the gate were dug up, there would be no pocket of gas to expand and blow out the hardened naquadah. Thus my take on the situation is that the gate actually needed to be buried in order for Sam's plan to work.

I'm not sure I agree with your theory: all they would need to do is make a tiny opening in the naquadah and then the kawoosh would do the work for them. It might take longer (depending on how similar her device is to Sokar's, since the iris held up pretty good against his) than with a buried gate but there are no guarantees for that. Plus, Jack and Laira etc couldn't have known this and digging up the gate and pulling it upright would at least not endanger Teal'c's life... but I guess we'll never know. This was the scenario the writers came up with and thus they wrote that solution.

You know, the idea about the hundred days being cultural was something I interpreted from Laira's explanation about her husband's death and never really wondered if it was just something she did or not, but it does make me wonder what the life expectancy on Edora is if you're expected to move on from the death of your spouse/child/friends or whatever kind of trauma in a hundred days...

I wonder if that means Edorans all have their emotions bottled up inside (because they're expected to move on in a hundred days) or if that simply really works for them (which could imply they're rather heartless). Would be an interesting study for the SGC scientists! Jack could send MacKenzie there to do a psychological study on the methods of grieving after an emotionally traumatic experience if he gets enough of the man's prying!

[hlndncr]

You know, the idea about the hundred days being cultural was something I interpreted from Laira's explanation about her husband's death and never really wondered if it was just something she did or not, but it does make me wonder what the life expectancy on Edora is if you're expected to move on from the death of your spouse/child/friends or whatever kind of trauma in a hundred days...

Well we do know they had a very small population and it was basically one of just subsistence living. (The likely inbreeding may explain Garren, and Laira's enthusiasm for new genetic material.) And in societies like the early pioneers of the American west mourning was short and remarriage frequent. Most simply didn't have the luxury of waiting a long time, going it alone, or holding out for the right one. You combined resources, and families to survive. And you had babies to keep the community going. It was a both an individual and community imperative. I imagine Edora was much the same.

[fems]

Gee, can you imagine what would have happened if all of SG-1 had been trapped there? Lots of new material for the gene pool. They never would have been allowed to leave again!

[hlndncr]

Gee, can you imagine what would have happened if all of SG-1 had been trapped there? Lots of new material for the gene pool. They never would have been allowed to leave again!

Poor Daniel and Teal'c (because Sam and Jack are taken - with each other )!

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

the one scene i always remember is when jack is trying to dig teal'c out and he's like "Teal'c you are one stubborn son of a *****".

[Ikorni]

Gee, can you imagine what would have happened if all of SG-1 had been trapped there? Lots of new material for the gene pool. They never would have been allowed to leave again!

*covers eyes* I can't imagine! Maybe Daniel would be the first to hook up with a villager.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

out of the core four (Jack, Sam, Daniel, Teal'c) who has had the most romantic interests?

[Sparky She-Demon]

I think it's a tie between Sam and Jack, especially when you take all the aliens into account.

[neverendingimagination]

out of the core four (Jack, Sam, Daniel, Teal'c) who has had the most romantic interests?

Sam.

Teal'c has had 3 (if you count Shau'nac')
Daniel has had 4 I believe
Jack has had 4
Sam has had, Jonas, Narim, Orlin, Eek, the guy who died in 2001, Jack, the guy from emancipation. (I'm including one sided attraction here). I'm sure I've missed some too. Could add fifth I suppose.

It's definitely Sam.

[Sparky She-Demon]

You forgot Martouf/Lantash.