Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

From what has been said, Chris Judge was probably the worst culprit.



Yeah, I just wish we had more early stuff

yeah i agree.

[hlndncr]

Party over in the Sam/Jack Ship Day Thread for the next 24 hours!

Come Join Us!!!




by Ikorni

[SaraBahama]

R D A

R&D = Research and Development.

[hlndncr]

We've gotten a little off track with the rewatch schedule. That's partially my fault.

I don't know where Suzi is lately, but I thought I'd get things moving again with a quick review of Urgo.

by Sarai

Summary
An alien device is implanted in the brains of SG1 so they see a guy who looks something like a famous tenor and acts something like Jack hyped up on lots of pie. Through the power of suggestion Jack and the rest of the SG1 then become hyped up on lots of pie. Hijinks ensue. Urgo is eventually returned to his creator and SG1 comes back with no knowledge of what happened to them.

Favorite Scene
SG1 is drawn to the commissary by shared cravings for dessert. (Don't you just hate it when that happens?! )

Favorite Line
Urgo: I want to live; I want to experience the universe; and I want to eat pie.

Who doesn't?

General Analysis
This is just a fun episode and is, in my mind, one of the things that makes SG1 so great. They deal with high concepts and high action, but sometimes they just step back and have a little fun. That's not to say this episode is empty and meaningless. It actually addresses some really interesting ideas like, "What is sentience?" And Urgo's creators are really interesting - advanced and curious, but also paranoid and hesitant.

You can see that this episode was just an effort of joy and love for the cast and crew. AT spoke of her experience on this ep at Shore Leave over the weekend. She talked about how much they just laughed. There wasn't a take where she didn't remember cracking up.

Peter DeLuise, who directed, would leave the camera rolling and just tell his dad to do stuff to make the cast crack up. Even RDA, well known for only having a passing acquaintance with the script himself at times, said that editing down all the footage into an actual story was a nightmare because no one could keep a straight face. This episode ended up with the most footage shot of any episode of the show.

Overall, I just love this episode because it makes me laugh. It's a family favorite and one we often watch together and quote back to one another (especially around the Thanksgiving table as we are waiting for dessert).

Sam & Jack
Allow me to put on my super rosy shipper glasses for the moment. There's far more fun to be had between the lines here than in the actual scenes.

One thing I noticed is that Sam and Jack are in much closer proximity whenever Urgo is on and active. It's like that wireless link between them and the increased acuity in their senses is tugging at them and pulling them closer together.

They are not sitting next to each other in the infirmary at first. After Urgo has made himself known they are on the bed right beside one another and sitting together in the briefing room. Then Sam uses the magnetic pulse to turn him off and they are apart again. But when Urgo comes back they are sitting in the briefing room with Daniel between them. If you watch Sam and Jack start to pull closer together and poor Daniel is sitting back like he's being squeezed between them.

Exhibit A (pre-Urgo):



Exhibit B (Urgo appears):







Exhibit C (Urgo temporarily offline):



Exhibit D (Urgo returns):





The other shippiness is how Jack looks like he got his hand caught in the cookie jar when Urgo mentions little bikinis. So Jack wants to take Sam to Maui - for the fishing I'm sure.



Then of course there is the question of enhanced experiences to motivate them? Hmmm, I'm sure there's some fanfic out there somewhere.

[Sparky She-Demon]

Nice review! I really want to see that episode!

[AmberLM]

Can't green you but fantastic review, Hlndncr!

[picardythirds]

I would have loved to see what the original script was. or the blooper footage.

I always wished that there had been a sequel that explored the "what is sentience" concept further. What happened to Urgo? Who exactly were these Aliens?

But I agree, a fun episode. I especially liked how they cut the "row row row your boat" - those monitors made it really clear.

I also, for some inexplicable reason, really liked the "I can be boring! Oh, what a lovely shade of grey." scene. And of course the dessert scene. It always makes me hungry.


I was at a camp earlier this summer and frequently we would have blue jello in the dessert fridge...in the same sort of cups. But once there was blue jello AND pie at the same time...which made me think of Urgo.

[hlndncr]

I was at a camp earlier this summer and frequently we would have blue jello in the dessert fridge...in the same sort of cups. But once there was blue jello AND pie at the same time...which made me think of Urgo.

This sounds like an excellent camp.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

i always liked when Jack called him "hugo" and togar "toga"

[Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse]

Thanks for an excellent review - and for reminding me just how great an episode Urgo is

[hlndncr]

Summary
The dumbest kid in the world causes Jack to be stranded off world after a meteor takes out the gate. Said kid’s mom wants to create more genetic mutants, but better looking, so she seduces Jack. Meanwhile back at the SGC Sam works herself to death to get Jack home and Teal’c actually does almost die because mutant mom doesn’t want to let Jack go.

Favorite Scene
Sam and Janet have a heart to heart. (See below.)

Favorite Lines
Janet: You working through the night again?
Yeah. Lot of work to do.
Janet: Look, Sam, there's no doubt you're going to solve this, but you have to accept the fact it's going to take time.
Yeah, well if I think that way, it could take months.
Janet: Daniel says the Tollan could have a ship in the vicinity of Edora sometime around next year.
He shouldn't have to wait that long.
Janet: You miss him.
[Cue Sam/Jack Theme]
Yeah.
Janet: Is this a problem?
No. No, of course not.
Janet: Ok; ’night.
’night.

General Analysis
I’ve been to Edora! It’s a western village set located outside Vancouver. Very cool. They also used it in Beast of Burden.

This is the kind of story they could only tell in the early days of Stargate. It demonstrates how dangerous their work really is because we simply don’t have the technology to travel the galaxy other than with the gate. So if there is a problem with the gate we can’t fix (like it being hit by a meteor) we are in deep trouble. And our allies are less than reliable because frankly they’ve got problems of their own and don’t have the time and resources to run around the galaxy saving our butt when we get in over our heads.

For a long time this was up there as one of my favorite episodes and I still enjoy it quite a bit. First, it’s just a very well written story. It has the BW touch. He wrote the screen play and you can see his care with pacing, characters and drawing out as much emotional resonance as possible. I love the angst and I love that there are several threads left dangling. There’s a lot of room for speculation and discussion with this episode, the characters with their actions and motivations, and the consequences.

I remember first watching this episode, seeing Jack’s face when he realizes the stargate is gone and he can’t go home. His looks absolutely bereft and I felt for him. I thought of how I would feel to be totally lost to everyone and everything I knew and loved. I admit it didn’t even occur to me that he could be rescued and I think at that moment Jack wasn’t thinking of rescue either, he was only considering his loss. It was heartbreaking and terrifying. It reminds us that they are playing with technology that is way beyond us and there is no back-up plan or safety net.

Of course, the one thing Jack does have is SG1. His team would never let this be it. Even though they can’t even say for sure he or anyone else on Edora survived they would never give up until they knew there was no hope. I love how the whole team rallies to try and find a way to save him. Daniel is the one who contacts their allies. Sam builds the particle accelerator and Teal’c risks his life on a chance he can reach Jack. Even Hammond had to have pushed to give SG1 the time and resources they needed to get Jack home. And we saw how Janet tried to support Sam, even with some of her concerns, which I’ll return to later.

Laira
The big elephant in the room is of course Laira. I know there is a lot of controversy over her character. Some people like her and some really hate her. Me, I fall somewhere in the middle. There are a lot of things to admire about her character. She is clearly intelligent, confident and a strong leader. She is determined; seems to know what she wants; and will do what it takes to get it. But I think she also has a strong moral conscience and has had experiences in her life that makes her an empathetic and caring person. On the other hand, I think she can be a little narrow and self-centered in her views and actions and she can come off as abrupt and self-serving.

She has several significant roles to play in this story. She is clearly a person of some influence and stature among her people. She seems to be putting up Sam in her home at first and has the most interaction with SG1, telling her village that she has come to know these strangers. She speaks with Jack about negotiating the treaty; although it’s not clear she has any formal power in those negotiations. When asked to evacuate her words sway many of her people. And after the firestorm (literally) with her house being one of the few to survive intact and with a supply of food her power and stature seems to increase and she is able to use it to protect Jack and fold him incorporate him into village life.

She is also a mother. And at this point I have to fault her. We don’t meet her husband so maybe he was in fact the village idiot and her son’s failings are genetic. But really, that kid is just dumb as rocks and annoying to boot! No wonder she wanted to start over again. I’m not sure she was very good as a parent, but then at least she went looking for her kid when he turned up missing. The girlfriend’s parents appear to have just left without her.

TBC

[hlndncr]

Laira & Jack
Then there is Laira’s very obvious interest in Jack. I can’t blame her for it, especially given the other choices available to her. She is clearly interested in Jack right from the very beginning. She’s very flirty with him. Jack seems at times either oblivious or just a little confused and disconcerted by her attentions. I think he enjoys her company. He likes strong women, but I’m sure the idea of a relationship is miles from his mind.

During the evacuation when Laira’s son is missing she turns to Jack for help and he gives it readily and that leads to him being stranded. Still he tries to be strong and reassuring for them in the caves and Laira clings to him, which I find a little odd because her son is right there and she seems mostly to ignore him.

Laira is being very practical when she insists Jack work in the fields instead of dig for the gate. I don’t think she’s trying to push him into letting go at this point. I think she really is just concerned for the survival of the village. However, she never does seem to give him any help looking for the gate or any leeway when he talks of home. She wants him to move on.

I think her mind set highlights just how little she really knows Jack’s true life. She believes it is hopeless to look back and necessary to rebuild and move forward. She just doesn’t understand Jack’s team and what they would do to get him back. She probably believes it is best for everyone if he would just accept Edora as home.

Jack on the other hand is conflicted. He knows what he would be giving up if he let go of his hope of returning home. But I think he does find a measure of contentment on Edora. So after three months on the planet we find that Jack is still quite solitary. He may be more comfortable with Laira, but she’s still the one driving the relationship. I never sense that he’s really passionate with her. He’s just willing to take the companionship she offers. But I’ll come back to that in a minute.

First, I want to discuss Laira and Jack’s shared experience with loss. Laira tries to help Jack become reconciled to his situation by sharing her experience of losing her husband and coming back into the world again. I think Laira’s grace in accepting and moving forward after her loss was good for him to see. We already know Jack does not handle loss well. Of course, I don’t beleive Laira has any knowledge or clue about Charlie. She probably thinks this is the worst tragedy Jack has ever faced in his life. She wouldn’t know that he’s faced far worse, and that it was the stargate and his team that brought him through it.

I think that is where their relationship is ultimately doomed to fail. Laira only knows a solitary Jack stranded on an alien planet. She doesn’t know the ruthless special ops Jack. She doesn’t know the haunted bereaved father Jack. She doesn’t really know him at all. And she doesn’t want to.

Jack is definitely reluctant and uncomfortable when she arranges for them to be alone after the village hootenanny, and at least a little drunk. It’s really not the ideal time for a relationship discussion.

When she asks for him to give her a child I have to wonder what each of them were thinking. Was this Laira’s way of trying to seal him to her? Was this a deep seeded desire she had for more children going back to before her husband died? Was she thinking of the practical need to repopulate the village? Perhaps all of that went into her calculations.

Jack must have thought at least briefly about Charlie and his own experiences, and perceived failings as a father. I wonder if he also maybe considered Daniel’s experience on Abydos and how his friend’s accidental marriage actually brought him happiness.

So he accepts Laira’s invitation to her bed, but he did so with the caveat that this was not a full and complete relationship. Laira was rather foolish to go forward under those conditions and I think she knew that. After all, the next day she begins to try and erase his connections to the past life. And when she picks up the radio and hears the voices she probably sees the writing on the wall.

I guess if you wanted to be generous to Laira you could say that she didn’t really understand what the voices from the radio meant. She wouldn’t be familiar with the technology so she could have believed they weren’t a live signal. And she couldn’t have known that her hesitation to tell Jack about it would endanger Teal’c’s life.

At any rate, I don’t hate her for her actions; I feel sorry for her. She rolled the dice that she could win Jack over with time and lost. It was a bad choice on her part and probably a mistake by Jack as well. But I don’t think there was any malice or bad intentions on anyone’s part, just poor choices and poor timing (or good timing I suppose if you think Jack needed to be saved from himself and Laira’s machinations).

So in the end Jack tells Laira he’s not happy about going home and I think that’s true. He’s lost and adrift at that point having been caught between two very different lives and now unsure he wants either. He doesn’t seem to contemplate staying on Edora, but he does ask Laira to come home with him. I think Laira senses this is more out of obligation than desire. Their farewell is truly a goodbye. It’s the kind where you promise to keep in touch, but you know you really won’t because it’s just too painful and too complicated. And Laira acknowledges that they are really just good friends, which is what I think is all they were ever meant to be, circumstances just took them on a three month detour to get them back to that point.

Finally, the baby – is Laira pregnant? Logical answer – No. Yes, it’s possible she could be, but I don’t think Jack would just walk away from a child of his even in these messy circumstances. Since earth is sure to stay in contact with Edora I can’t see how he wouldn’t know, but we never hear anything more so I have to assume no baby.

RDA did suggest revisiting the Edora plot where Jack discovers he does have a daughter. I think this was probably an outgrowth of his own experiences as a new father of a little girl. BW wisely said no to that idea.

Sam & Jack
This is mainly Sam’s story because Jack is off having a dalliance with another woman. But at the beginning when Sam and Jack are together on the planet briefly we do see a fondness and trust between them as they talk. Jack tells her not to suck the fun out watching the meteor shower and she takes it for the teasing that it is. Then he turns to her for answers when it looks like everything is about to go awry. I’m sure Laira didn’t notice the closeness between them because most people who didn’t know them really well probably wouldn’t. I think only Daniel and Teal’c see it at this point. Even Sam and Jack are rather oblivious to it.

I don’t think Sam is overly concerned about Laira’s flirting with Jack either. She’s comfortable in her relationship with Jack and she has a far more interesting astronomical puzzle to occupy her mind. I think at this point Sam sees Jack as a good CO and a friend. Someone she likes and admires, enjoys his company and his sense of humor. Jack has equally friendly feelings toward her; although I think he is a little more aware of the attraction or spark between them because he’s already experienced some close calls with losing her. Now it’s her turn.

When Jack goes after Garen in the caves and orders Sam to leave she looks like she’s ready to follow him. But she stays behind and does her duty. In fact, I think her suggestion to Teal’c that they do leave and her insisting that they can’t go back right away is not because she isn’t just as concerned for Jack, but that she is being the leader he expects her to be and thinking of the safety of the whole team first.

You can see the relief in Sam’s face when they are able to reconnect to Edora after the meteor strike and how it turns to devastation when they can’t go through and the rescue mission is scrubbed. Although she’s worried she doesn’t stop thinking and she’s willing to grasp at any chance to bring Jack home even suggesting a plan to build something they didn’t even know could exist just a few months before.

As Sam is working herself to exhaustion I think she is not really dwelling on her motivations. She wants to bring him back as soon as possible and she’s so focused on that goal she doesn’t even realize how much she might be revealing herself.

Janet notices I think for the first time that there may be something more between Sam and Jack than just professional friendship. Sam brushes off the concern, but the conversation may have forced her to stop and think about why she is so invested in this.

I love the point where Janet notices that Sam misses Jack and Sam just says, “Yeah,” like it is the most natural thing in the world. He had become integral to her life. He was always there supporting her, making her laugh, giving her grief. But it’s not just a selfish I want him back; she doesn’t want him to have to wait and wonder if he will get home.

Sam has a pretty big smile on her face when she does see him again, at least until he walks away from her. At first she’s concerned for him, asking Daniel if he’s alright. Then the discomfort sets in. She sees him with Laira and wonders if she’s lost the plot with him and whether she should have missed him so much. Her look at that moment reminds me of when she watches Jack kissing Alt!Sam in POV. I don’t know which is worse for Sam, watching Jack kissing someone who looks just like her (who in a certain sense is her) or watching him walk into the arms of a woman who is most definitely not her at all.

So where does this leave Sam and Jack? Well, I think that’s a discussion for the next episode.

[hlndncr]

Season 3 Rewatch Schedule
May 19 - Into The Fire - SGSuzi
May 24 – Seth - RamonathePest
May 29 - Fair Game - hlndncr
June 3- Legacy – neverendingimagination
June 8 - Learning Curve – meredithe5
June 13 - Point of View – Selene0789
June 18 - Deadman Switch - SaraBahama
June 23 – Demons – Sparky She-Demon
June 28 - Rules of Engagement - LCJS
July 3 - Forever in a Day - selene0789
July 8 - Past and Present - Ikorni
July 13 - Jolinar’s Memories / The Devil You Know – Sparky She-Demon
July 18 – Foothold - LCJS
July 23 – Pretense – meredithe5
July 28 – Urgo - SGSuzi
August 2- A Hundred Days - hlndncr
August 7- Shades of Grey - selene0789
August 12 – New Ground - LCJS
August 17 – Maternal Instinct – Selene0789
August 22 – Crystal Skull - neverendingimagination
August 27 – Nemesis - ikorni

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

did you folks know that a hundred days was originally suppose to be a two-part episode?

[Sparky She-Demon]

Nice review, hlndncr!