Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Nope! I'm good, thanks. I've actually been making good progress on the new installment. So this rewatch is actually helpful, as I've gotten a chance to get things fresh in my head on how I want things to be different.

Now, the question is if I want to make the Tok'ra better, or WORSE. Buh buh BUM!

Thoughts, anyone? It's an AU, so anything goes.

i say your story, your call.

[meredithe5]

Nope! I'm good, thanks. I've actually been making good progress on the new installment. So this rewatch is actually helpful, as I've gotten a chance to get things fresh in my head on how I want things to be different.

Now, the question is if I want to make the Tok'ra better, or WORSE. Buh buh BUM!

Thoughts, anyone? It's an AU, so anything goes.

You could do both Jacob doesn't have to be the only good Tok'ra... but some/most of them will always have ulterior motives heh... or you could do a spin and surprise us. Either way I can't wait to read it!

[Zoser]

I think it is interesting that Jack leaves Sam in a precarious position - the Tok'ra are fleeing and there she is with her not yet healed father and the maybe ally Martouf and in Upgrades (as we learn in Divide and Conquer he refuses to leave even facing certain death. Here in Tok'ra I & II he cares about Sam but in Upgrades he loves her more than life itself.

[selene0789]

I think it is interesting that Jack leaves Sam in a precarious position - the Tok'ra are fleeing and there she is with her not yet healed father and the maybe ally Martouf and in Upgrades (as we learn in Divide and Conquer he refuses to leave even facing certain death. Here in Tok'ra I & II he cares about Sam but in Upgrades he loves her more than life itself.

Aside from the growing depth of their emotions, I think the difference here is that in Tok'ra, Sam doesn't ever believe that she, Jacob, and Martouf will die. I'm sure the possibility crossed her mind, but it was never so certain as it was in D&C. In D&C, they both knew there was no way out for Sam. Sam told him to leave, so that he might live, but he refused to leave her to a certain death. They got lucky when the forceshield went down.

That's how I read it, anywho...

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

you know what i don't understand. with the blending of the tok'ra kanan, you would think it would've mellowed Jack out like Selmak did with Jacob but it didn't it just made me alot more crankier kinda of. did they ever touch on that in later S6 episodes?

[hedwig]

you know what i don't understand. with the blending of the tok'ra kanan, you would think it would've mellowed Jack out like Selmak did with Jacob but it didn't it just made me alot more crankier kinda of. did they ever touch on that in later S6 episodes?

Nothing was said about Jack's time being blended with kanaan. It is theorized that a true blending never took place between the two (in fanfiction), because Jack likely refused to do so other than to let himself be healed.

[selene0789]

Nothing was said about Jack's time being blended with kanaan. It is theorized that a true blending never took place between the two (in fanfiction), because Jack likely refused to do so other than to let himself be healed.

I agree. Though for me, the idea that there was no true blending was in fact confirmed by omission. When nothing was said regarding his temporary stint as host-- Sam never made mention she could sense naquadah in him, he doesn't seem to have any lingering flashbacks or memory surges (except for the lotar he helped rescue), etc-- I always interpreted it as "there's nothing to tell".

He was largely along for the ride only, so to speak. And I think the only reason he remembered the lotar at all was because she was on Kanan's mind when the snake bailed.

[hedwig]

I agree. Though for me, the idea that there was no true blending was in fact confirmed by omission. When nothing was said regarding his temporary stint as host-- Sam never made mention she could sense naquadah in him, he doesn't seem to have any lingering flashbacks or memory surges (except for the lotar he helped rescue), etc-- I always interpreted it as "there's nothing to tell".

He was largely along for the ride only, so to speak. And I think the only reason he remembered the lotar at all was because she was on Kanan's mind when the snake bailed.

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, Jacob said something to Jack in "Allegiance" that it was too bad a "true blending" didn't take place, because if it had then Jack might better understand the Tok'ra a bit better.

[brendini]

I agree. Though for me, the idea that there was no true blending was in fact confirmed by omission. When nothing was said regarding his temporary stint as host-- Sam never made mention she could sense naquadah in him, he doesn't seem to have any lingering flashbacks or memory surges (except for the lotar he helped rescue), etc-- I always interpreted it as "there's nothing to tell".

He was largely along for the ride only, so to speak. And I think the only reason he remembered the lotar at all was because she was on Kanan's mind when the snake bailed.

I've always thought that because Kanan actually left his body, there wasn't anything left of the symbiote for Sam to detect. My thought anyways.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

i remember the first time i saw the pilot episode after i started watching sg-1 and i saw the snake enter sha're's body (i was like 11, 12 at the time) i had a nightmare of my self being implanted with one and it scared the living....daylights outta me.

[selene0789]

I've always thought that because Kanan actually left his body, there wasn't anything left of the symbiote for Sam to detect. My thought anyways.

Ditto. Some fanon suggests that Sam does feel a bit of a tingle, not as much as Teal'c, but still a bit. I don't agree. All that remains of Kanan in Jack are the memories that Jack remembers Kanan thinking about. Jack probably half-woke up when Kanan hijacked his body, and could see/feel Kanan's emotions for himself. I don't think there was any true deliberate merge of memories like Sam and Jolinar.

If Jack had been left in the same condition as Sam, with all the Tok'ra memories of Kanan, it would have cheapened what both of them went through. Sam was traumatized because she was the first to be infected by the "Goa'uld" and survive, and Jack has his own slew of NEW bad memories as a result of Kanan gallivanting off to Ba'als stronghold. If Jack retained Kanan's memories, it would have simply been a repeat of what had happened to Sam.

I prefer to keep my heroes' woes unique, thanks.

[fems]

you know what i don't understand. with the blending of the tok'ra kanan, you would think it would've mellowed Jack out like Selmak did with Jacob but it didn't it just made me alot more crankier kinda of. did they ever touch on that in later S6 episodes?

Uh, considering what happened once Kanan was implanted I'd say Jack's attitude towards the Tok'ra (pre- and post-Kanan) only makes more sense! Why would he have "mellowed" when the snake hijacked his body and then left him once Ba'al got his hands on Jack? Jack went through endless deaths and revivals just because of Kanan, he didn't know anything himself!

I also agree with the other posters that say a true blending never took place; I know Sam tried to convince him to take a symbiote because of the intel Kanan supposedly had but I don't actually recall them mentioning anything about that later on. Unless of course it was about Ba'al's fortress and in that case it was kinda moot, since Jack already ended up there and they managed to get him out again. The only thing Kanan seems to have done is (partially?) heal him and then take his body for a joy ride.

[SaraBahama]

The only thing Kanan seems to have done is (partially?) heal him and then take his body for a joy ride.

He did heal him from a deadly incurable disease.

Also -remember that it is implied that it is because of JACK's influence that Kaanan returned to Ba'al's fortress for Shallan. Previously he had abandoned her there when he was done with his mission.

I've always thought that in the not-quite-blending that happened, Kaanan was shamed by Jack's 'leave no one behind' convictions and that it was Jack, consciously or unconsciously that drove him to go back and get her...the woman he loves.

I mean...Jack would never leave Sam under the control of a supercilious bast...er...user like that.

ON TOPIC: I think 'Abyss' fleshes out what we learned in 'The Tok'ra' -and that Jack, of all people, helped humanize at least one tok'ra.

I always had a soft spot for Martouf: his soul-mate is dead...he will never see or touch her again; it's very tragic, but here before him is one who knew her intimately -because of the blending. Sam has become a living memorial of Jolinar for him, as well as a fellow mourner, because she has lost Jolinar and grieved her as well. I forgive him for becoming emotionally attached.

Now...I don't blame Jack for being protective -the blending leaves behind messy emotions that are not completely her own and it is easy to become confused over the blurry line of where does Jolinar end and Sam begin.

On a whole other point: Martouf's symbiote, Lantash, can be a real jerk sometimes. I felt sorry for Marty when he would have to apologize for stuff he would blurt out.

[fems]

Yes, I said 'partially' because we were never told whether he healed Jack from the disease or entirely, as in cure his bad knees etc like Selmak did with Jacob.

[SaraBahama]

Ah! I see! Thanks for clarification.