Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Coela Bellatore]

Long time no see people. Just came in to ask your opinion on stuff. I'm thinking of writing a Fic from an outsiders perspective on the SGC and I was wondering how I should have them interpret the O'Neill/Carter relationship?

How do you think you would interpret the interactions between them if they were strangers to you?

(Please no super squee)

[hedwig]

Long time no see people. Just came in to ask your opinion on stuff. I'm thinking of writing a Fic from an outsiders perspective on the SGC and I was wondering how I should have them interpret the O'Neill/Carter relationship?

How do you think you would interpret the interactions between them if they were strangers to you?

(Please no super squee)

If the outsider is a first time visitor to the SGC, I doubt they would see anything more than a couple of officers behaving professionally, but with a sort of easygoing relaxed friendly attitude toward each other, since they are on the same team. If the outsider has heard no "rumors" about the two of them (and even if they have), there really is no reason to see anything beyond mutual respect and friendliness between them. (My own personal opinion, even though I'm a shipper.)

[Zoser]

Long time no see people. Just came in to ask your opinion on stuff. I'm thinking of writing a Fic from an outsiders perspective on the SGC and I was wondering how I should have them interpret the O'Neill/Carter relationship?

How do you think you would interpret the interactions between them if they were strangers to you?

(Please no super squee)

I have been thinking about you (considering the news from Afghanistan) and it is good to see you post!!


As for Sam and Jack - it depends on what the outsider sees - Jack can be an SOB at times and she a 'science geek' and other times perhaps a little too chummy for their professional positions. If they see bits and pieces of both it could be like an old married couple when the affection is usually reserved for private.

In high school (in the dark ages) my good friend and I always argued politics or religion or whatever at lunch time. An acquaintance stopped by after one of our heated discussions and asked if we hated one another so much why in gods name did we always sit together at lunch. We just looked back and laughed. It is all in perception.

[Rachel500]

Long time no see people. Just came in to ask your opinion on stuff. I'm thinking of writing a Fic from an outsiders perspective on the SGC and I was wondering how I should have them interpret the O'Neill/Carter relationship?

How do you think you would interpret the interactions between them if they were strangers to you?

(Please no super squee)

For me, it would depend on when you set the fic to some extent. If sometime in S4 or around an episode when one of them is missing (Paradise Lost, Grace, etc) an outsider may have wondered if something was going on (along the lines of 'she's/he's a bit more worried than she/he should be, isn't she/he?' or even 'they seem a bit chummy for a CO/junior officer'.

Really, though beyond those specific times, I tend to think any outsider would see a mostly professional relationship (even if it was set post Threads and an assumption is made that O'Neill/Carter are together) - see There But For the Grace of God as an example where *Daniel* never picks up on AU Sam/Jack being engaged until right at the end when they hug and Catherine clues him in.

If you have more than one outsider viewpoint, you may even try taking both points of view. One character arguing something is going on and one character arguing very definitely that nothing is going on between them.

I also think it depends on your outsider character:

Are they going to be male, slightly chauvanistic, very action oriented, and maybe wondering why Carter has advanced so much in her career or is on the flagship team when she's (in their eyes) nothing but a science geek...maybe they would assume something is going on (because how else would Carter progress) even if nothing is.

Or are they going to be more *new man* like Cameron? Respectful of women, full of respect for Carter's achievements, maybe slightly bamboozled why anyone would put her together with a CO who clearly has a thing against scientists and comes across a bit dense sometimes (obviously this character isn't sharp enough to get that Jack pretends he's dense)...

Or are they going to be a female civilian who hates the military and has a rather romantic side and hopes Sam/Jack *are* in love and together?

Really, how your character will see Sam/Jack will depend on the prejudices, assumptions and motivations of your character which will inform how they would interpret Sam/Jack's behaviour towards each other.

For an example of this in the show: Kinsey picks up on Doctor Lee's report of Sam's protest in Paradise Lost and uses it to further his agenda that the SGC is filled with loose canons, asserting that reading between the lines something inappropriate is going on. Woolsey, who is more stringent about the evidence and takes a more factual approach, is shocked because he was going to assert the opposite (that they were not purporting that the report indicated evidence of an inappropriate relationship).

Hope this helps...I fear I may have confused the question...

[Coela Bellatore]

It would be right around Season 4's episode "Prodigy" (the worst episode ever IMO). I would probably be seen from the perspective of a male, not too chauvinistic but he is still a man. I really like your idea Rachel500, the one about an action oriented man.

[Pol]

It would be right around Season 4's episode "Prodigy" (the worst episode ever IMO). I would probably be seen from the perspective of a male, not too chauvinistic but he is still a man. I really like your idea Rachel500, the one about an action oriented man.

Oh, if it's around Season 4...super shippy season IMHO... Hmm.

I guess (not being a man this is hard to do, but) I think if he watched their "non briefing room" (ie, not in front of Hammond or dealing with direct business), an outsider would see them as close colleagues.

First impression of Carter (before she speaks), assuming the visitor doesn't know her rep at all ('cause he's lived under a rock or just joined the SGC or both) a typical military male reaction would be to wonder (as I think Rachel said) just how Carter got where she was.

It really depnds on the guy. A slimy icky guy will think Carter slept her way up. A good guy will assume she knows her chops and earned her place. Person A gives you good story conflict, Person B is someone I would like to work with.

Person B might also (if he's not in their chain of command) be interested in asking Carter out...which might result in some interesting stuff. Because I get the feeling that T and Daniel would give the guy the impression that she's taken and O'Neill would be slightly more...overt...but not really...about it.

How's that for clear?

I'm looking forward to reading the story!

*Pol pops back out and off to bed*

[Gatetrixer]

Breaking my lurker status to wonder what happened to this thread's discussions? I really enjoyed them.

[VSS]

Breaking my lurker status to wonder what happened to this thread's discussions? I really enjoyed them.

Funny you should ask- a couple of people have so I guess I better answer-

This thread got rejuvenated last spring when a couple of us decided to do a rewatch of the entire series from a shippy point of view. I was organizing it but didn't have good internet access over the summer and had delay it after we finished Season 2, and meant to come back and restart it just about now.

However, in the beginning I mentioned that I was doing it as a precursor to the third SG-1 movie. Unfortunately, that's now in limbo.

So, when/if they get that going again, I'll pick it up at the start of the third season where we left off. Until then, my heart's just not in it.

Which isn't to say that someone else can't do it, just not me.

[Gatetrixer]

Funny you should ask- a couple of people have so I guess I better answer-

This thread got rejuvenated last spring when a couple of us decided to do a rewatch of the entire series from a shippy point of view. I was organizing it but didn't have good internet access over the summer and had delay it after we finished Season 2, and meant to come back and restart it just about now.

However, in the beginning I mentioned that I was doing it as a precursor to the third SG-1 movie. Unfortunately, that's now in limbo.

So, when/if they get that going again, I'll pick it up at the start of the third season where we left off. Until then, my heart's just not in it.

Which isn't to say that someone else can't do it, just not me.

I hope you are still in the mood for writing fanfic! But I can understand being disheartened,--waiting for confirmation is a high- low situation, mainly low, it seems.

[VSS]

I hope you are still in the mood for writing fanfic! But I can understand being disheartened,--waiting for confirmation is a high- low situation, mainly low, it seems.

Geez, no, not doing that either.
I'm kind of at a low point but seeing them in SGU will be nice. I think!

[Calluna]

For an example of this in the show: Kinsey picks up on Doctor Lee's report of Sam's protest in Paradise Lost and uses it to further his agenda that the SGC is filled with loose canons, asserting that reading between the lines something inappropriate is going on. Woolsey, who is more stringent about the evidence and takes a more factual approach, is shocked because he was going to assert the opposite (that they were not purporting that the report indicated evidence of an inappropriate relationship).

I agree with this and I think it is a nice way to differentiate between types of characters. Kinsey is out to get SGC with whatever weapon he can and if Sam/Jack is a way to get that, he'll be happy to alleged inappropriateness and think "the worst" whereas Woolsey really does want to be an "honest beaurocrat" and do what he sees as the the unbiased thing. I liked that debate because it was accknowlegding a long running piece of fandom/writer teasing with moving along a greater storyline about SGC and the people making the decisions.

In some ways its like the shippers who want to read between the lines of some eps and those who really don't, not that one side is right or wrong in this case.

Although I have to say, I like Sam/Jack and even I wouldn't exactly be convinced fron that clip alone that there was something inappropriate going on. This is a team that has been together almost 24/7 for years by that time and we'd seen similar stuff with team members who certainly weren't rumoured to be having an affair many times before and since, and again in SGA. It's a pretty weak argument he had, even from a shipper perpective.


But then again, especially for the sake of fanfic, we might be able to assume that there were rumours, and mostly ignorant of the facts, gossip circulating by this point that Kinsey felt could be exploited.

[Rachel500]

I agree with this and I think it is a nice way to differentiate between types of characters. Kinsey is out to get SGC with whatever weapon he can and if Sam/Jack is a way to get that, he'll be happy to alleged inappropriateness and think "the worst" whereas Woolsey really does want to be an "honest beaurocrat" and do what he sees as the the unbiased thing. I liked that debate because it was accknowlegding a long running piece of fandom/writer teasing with moving along a greater storyline about SGC and the people making the decisions.

In some ways its like the shippers who want to read between the lines of some eps and those who really don't, not that one side is right or wrong in this case.

Although I have to say, I like Sam/Jack and even I wouldn't exactly be convinced fron that clip alone that there was something inappropriate going on. This is a team that has been together almost 24/7 for years by that time and we'd seen similar stuff with team members who certainly weren't rumoured to be having an affair many times before and since, and again in SGA. It's a pretty weak argument he had, even from a shipper perpective.


But then again, especially for the sake of fanfic, we might be able to assume that there were rumours, and mostly ignorant of the facts, gossip circulating by this point that Kinsey felt could be exploited.

Hi!

Yes,I'm always fascinated that essentially Sam/Jack does get discussed with the President! I always felt it was the writers way of highlighting the Sam/Jack thread on one hand, and highlighting the complete ambiguity of it on the other within the same scene.

Kinsey is a shipper but only for his own nefarious purposes! Which is why he often gets used as the bad guy in fanfic (the one bringing the court martials, etc)

And truthfully, someone can view that scene between Sam and Dr Lee and see nothing than one really upset team-mate, who blamed herself (because Maybourne grabbed her gun and zatted her) for the disappearance of Jack, who was still grieving for the loss of another team-mate, and reacting to the idea of stopping the search.

As a shipper though I view that scene with the knowledge that Sam has admitted caring about Jack more than she should, that there is a history of feeling feelings so that adds something to her character motivations above and beyond those that are given within the context of the rest of the episode, and creates this whole extra dimension to her angst.

[Calluna]

As a shipper though I view that scene with the knowledge that Sam has admitted caring about Jack more than she should, that there is a history of feeling feelings so that adds something to her character motivations above and beyond those that are given within the context of the rest of the episode, and creates this whole extra dimension to her angst.

Clearly. I agree that it was supposed to be a part of the fact that the show has shown they had feelings for each other, but from that particular clip Kinsey used you'd never have known it. The team has been outwardly emotional when Teal'c has been in trouble somehow, but no one was accusing Jack or anyone else of being involved with him. I know it was also partly to highlight the fact that a lot of it is ambiguity but that's why it was one of Kinsey's lamest attempts ever.

Now if he had brought up that from various mission reports it would seem that in almost every alternate reality they are together, then his gossip mongering might have had a little more juice with the president.

[VSS]

Resumes tomorrow with Season 3
Into the Fire

[KatG]

WooHoo! Can't wait.