Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[EvenstarSRV]

Is this the first time we see Jacob and Sam fighting side-by-side? I loved seeing her in action- she did a nice job with the grenade and plugging the Retu! But, this must be one of those instances we were talking about in another thread where we see the regs applied in an inconsistent manner (i.e. they only apply to Jack and Sam). Does anyone remember the Sullivan brothers ? I think they’re not supposed to assign family members to the same unit in case they lose them all at once, not to mention all the other problems of having two people with close personal ties in a combat unit together. Having Jacob taking fire with his “little girl” probably isn’t a good choice- Hammond and Jack should both have known that. But it happens all the time in Stargate, and no one ever mentions it, not even long enough to say why it isn’t a problem. Maybe because it’s so infrequent? At any rate, they never portray it as anything but a benefit to the SGC, instead of a liability; but personally I think a father/daughter relationship would affect the effectiveness of a combat unit almost as much as a couple of people in a romantic relationship.

I'm far from an expert on regs, but perhaps Jacob and Sam's unique positions would override the conventional rules against family serving together? Jacob is the Tau'ri ambassador to the Tok'ra, and because of Jolinar Sam probably became the point person for the SGC when dealing with the Tok'ra, kinda like Jack often was for the Asgard. I think the infrequency of it would be a factor as well, making it more of an ad hoc arrangement rather than a long-term assignment.

[Rachel500]

Show and Tell

A year ago, would he have allowed the little boy to call himself ‘Charlie’? And it’s so sad when Charlie eventually asks to live with Jack and he refuses. I get the feeling that’s less about Jack being gone so much as it is about his insecurities regarding his ability to be a good father. Or maybe there’s still so much going on behind the scenes with him that he feels he’s not up to the task? Or because he knows Charlie is going to die?

It's one of the things that bugs me most about this episode (no pun intended) is that they had the Retu kid ask to be called Charlie. I just find it too much of the writer going *Hey, drawing parallels with Jack losing his son here!!!* in big neon letters and as a sentimental overtone it was just too much for me.

They could have easily have had him called something else and still had the heartstrings pulled over the fact that he was going to die, his close relationship with Jack, the request to live with him.

I do think Jack held himself incredibly responsible for what happened to his son and I think he doubted whether he had been a good father. I get the impression from the flashback in TDYK that Jack was a fairly absentee father - away a lot of the time and there wasn't much time to just play ball with his kid. I'm absolutely certain when Jack was around he was a good father (he does have a natural affinity with kids) but I can see him questioning it with his son's death.

Here, I just don't think he's ready to consider being a father again; taking on that responsibility, nor allowing another child into his heart and risk the pain. The wound has healed but it's still tender, still could rip open again with the merest tug. Retu Charlie kind of sneaks in under his radar and you can see it hurts Jack to just care for him (just excellent acting by RDA).

Is this the first time we see Jacob and Sam fighting side-by-side? <snip> But, this must be one of those instances we were talking about in another thread where we see the regs applied in an inconsistent manner (i.e. they only apply to Jack and Sam). Does anyone remember the Sullivan brothers ? I think they’re not supposed to assign family members to the same unit in case they lose them all at once, not to mention all the other problems of having two people with close personal ties in a combat unit together. Having Jacob taking fire with his “little girl” probably isn’t a good choice- Hammond and Jack should both have known that. But it happens all the time in Stargate, and no one ever mentions it, not even long enough to say why it isn’t a problem. Maybe because it’s so infrequent? At any rate, they never portray it as anything but a benefit to the SGC, instead of a liability; but personally I think a father/daughter relationship would affect the effectiveness of a combat unit almost as much as a couple of people in a romantic relationship.

Interestingly (at least for me!) I've just covered this aspect of Sam & Jacob being allowed to fight together in my last Aftershock (TAG to Descent where Jacob) because it is a huge inconsistency and they shouldn't be assigned to fight together because of their relationship (Sam does run to Jacob in the same way we see her run to Jack when he's hurt, almost heedless of the danger to herself).

They just don't address it at all on the show but I think the Air Force would allow it because of the uniqueness of the situation, their distinctive abilities, and because it is only distinct missions rather than being assigned to the same team all the time - moreover, Jacob - despite his continued rank as a General - is never in charge of the missions - Jack is usually the one holding the decision making authority. There is also the fact that at least on Jacob's side, his instinctive reactions could be tempered to some degree by Selmak.

The difference with Sam and Jack is that they serve together all the time and Jack is the CO and would have final say over who lives and dies.

Do we ever see the Retu again? After what Jack said to Charlie, I’m severely disappointed that we don’t ever see him in contact with him again. That would have been a really sweet and appropriate bit of continuity, although I know they almost never show or write lines for anything that isn't relevant to the story at hand- a source of frustration for us shippers, that's for sure!

Implications for Sam and Jack: None, really. Except that insofar as their own separate personal problems go, they’re in a lot better place than they were in the beginning of their stint on SG-1.

I'm also disappointed we never saw the Retu again but I think visually it would have been difficult to have had them around (after all they *are* invisible) or appear again without addressing the visual aspect - it is a TV show and therefore works on the visual mainly. They could have revisited Charlie though but potentially it wouldn't have looked good for the Tok'ra to use a child as a liaison with Earth rather than an adult.

Sam & Jack: I think this again is one where I find the ship almost completely absent yet what I love about this episode is that for me it hints at the beginnings of the friendship and relationship that forms between Jacob and Jack.

[leiasky]

I liked Show and Tell. I thought it was a really nice Jack-centered ep. Here again we see that Jack has a natural affinity with children (he must have been a really good father). It also shows how far Jack has come since the beginning of the show. He was actually able to talk about Charlie, even though you could see it was painful for him.

I thought the Retu were awesome villains. I just wish that they would have brought them back sometime, seeing as they were such a threat and Jacob told them to watch out for them.

I agree, no real Sam and Jack implications here.

Agreed all the way around. I really like this episode a lot and really enjoyed all the Jack angst that went along with Retu Charlie's appearance. RDA's performance in this episode was wonderful and heartbreaking. It was very much a character driven episode but the plot and the action moved at a great pace together. It's one of my favorite episodes.

[Zoser]

I love Show and Tell. RDA was amazing as well as the little boy who played Retu Charlie. I would have liked to see him again and how being a Tok'ra changed him and Jack's reaction to it.

[VSS]

]http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e312/Zzoser/sg1-2x20-792.jpg

I love Show and Tell. RDA was amazing as well as the little boy who played Retu Charlie. I would have liked to see him again and how being a Tok'ra changed him and Jack's reaction to it.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...1_220_0934.jpg

I like the way you illustrate your points with pictures.

[VSS]

1969

Favorite Scene:
In which Major Thornbird is grilling Jack. Not just for the Kirk and Skywalker references but especially when Thornbird says they’ve accomplished nothing- and Jack says that’s what they wanted to do. Nothing. Not only is that funny, and true, it also shows that Jack is a quick learner. (Also, why is this guy named Thornbird? I tried to connect it to the movie/book The Thorn Birds but can't.)

Favorite Quote:
Jack: Captain, where there’s a will, there’s an 'or'.

Thanks, Jumble!

I really like this episode because it’s not only fun, it’s the first time travel ep they do and of course, they’re all as cute as can be in those outfits from the sixties. I have to think the cast had a blast filming it.

I think Sam’s explanation about how time travel could occur is actually true- (If you overlook the fact that wormholes aren’t actually thought to travel through space).

Spoiler:

Theoretically, you could actually travel back in time by accelerating to the speed of light and returning to your point of departure, and there exists the possibility that some particles actually do. I’m not sure you could use the same theory to travel forward, though. I actually haven’t read any theory that addresses how you could travel into your own future. But, except for Moebius, all Stargate time travel has used a theory that actually exists, which is more than you can say for movies like Back to the Future. I like that. It shows someone actually cared enough to read up on it.

So Hammond gives Sam the note after seeing the cut on her hand. I like the cut, it looks crappy just like you’d expect it to look on someone who’s on active duty out in the field. Then Jack gets whacked in the head by the sergeant. Now I know that’s got something to do with a real injury of RDA’s- who knows the story with that? Anyway, Hammond receives the note from the future and I find that extremely interesting. What must he have thought when he first met Jack? Do you think that all those years he resisted looking up who those people were?

Spoiler:

And of course it’s all just a paradox because the note-passing is circular- he received a note from the future, so he must send one to the past. It’s this circular effect that also makes Sam’s warnings potentially confusing, because they’ve “always” been in their own past, affecting their own future- in this way it’s really different from all the other time travel stories. In other words, what if their future hinges on screwing something up royally in 1969? Or just picking soup to eat for dinner as opposed to roasting hot dogs? Boy, I would really drive myself nuts if it had been me!

Anyway, I just love Jenny and Michael. When Sam tells Jack that he has to let Michael make up his own mind about draft-dodging, does she mean that because it will affect the timeline? Or because that’s the right thing for Michael? It seems to me that Sam enjoys being around another woman for once and that she and Jenny bond pretty fast. I wonder if seeing the feminine side of Sam for a week has any bearing on what happens with Jack in the next episode?

I liked how they cleverly concealed the name of the observatory. On the other hand they let Jack’s Roots hat slide (Roots was founded in the 80’s) but I forgive them because he was quite the hottie in this ep. This is the second time they leave him to deal with a giant telescope. Why not Sam? So Sam could go along as Daniel’s girlfriend to listen in on his conversation with Katherine? Was she pretending not to speak English there or pretending to be a dumb blonde? That scene has always seemed off to me, because she doesn’t say a word.

It’s interesting that in the end Sam tells Cassie what she has to do in the future. She wouldn’t normally intervene, but the reason why she tells Cassie to meet them is because she already did, so she knows she has to do it again. Like Hammond, it’s circular, and it’s this paradox that to me makes 1969 totally different from all the other time travel stories.

Spoiler:

They are going to return to a future that will be completely different if they don’t repeat what they already did- it's not just a matter of not interfering. Evidently, they must be close enough that when they return to the proper time, everything appears to be exactly the same as when they left. But I bet that there are going to be a few things not quite right that’ll make them wonder exactly what else in their lives was a little “off”. I’d hate to go through life not knowing whether I just forgot something, or if things were never that way in the first place.

Implications for Sam and Jack: None. This was just a fun and intersting episode. They looked quite nice together in their hippie/biker duds, although I don’t suppose hippies and bikers normally would hang out together much!

I wonder, though, what impact these events had off-screen. Because the next episode gives us a sudden burst of shippyness that had almost seems out of the blue.

[Zoser]

1969

Favorite Scene:
In which Major Thornbird is grilling Jack. Not just for the Kirk and Skywalker references but especially when Thornbird says they’ve accomplished nothing- and Jack says that’s what they wanted to do. Nothing. Not only is that funny, and true, it also shows that Jack is a quick learner. (Also, why is this guy named Thornbird? I tried to connect it to the movie/book The Thorn Birds but can't.)

Favorite Quote:
Jack: Captain, where there’s a will, there’s an 'or'.


I really like this episode because it’s not only fun, it’s the first time travel ep they do and of course, they’re all as cute as can be in those outfits from the sixties. I have to think the cast had a blast filming it.

I think Sam’s explanation about how time travel could occur is actually true- (If you overlook the fact that wormholes aren’t actually thought to travel through space).

Spoiler:

Theoretically, you could actually travel back in time by accelerating to the speed of light and returning to your point of departure, and there exists the possibility that some particles actually do. I’m not sure you could use the same theory to travel forward, though. I actually haven’t read any theory that addresses how you could travel into your own future. But, except for Moebius, all Stargate time travel has used a theory that actually exists, which is more than you can say for movies like Back to the Future. I like that. It shows someone actually cared enough to read up on it.

So Hammond gives Sam the note after seeing the cut on her hand. I like the cut, it looks crappy just like you’d expect it to look on someone who’s on active duty out in the field. Then Jack gets whacked in the head by the sergeant. Now I know that’s got something to do with a real injury of RDA’s- who knows the story with that? Anyway, Hammond receives the note from the future and I find that extremely interesting. What must he have thought when he first met Jack? Do you think that all those years he resisted looking up who those people were?

Spoiler:

And of course it’s all just a paradox because the note-passing is circular- he received a note from the future, so he must send one to the past. It’s this circular effect that also makes Sam’s warnings potentially confusing, because they’ve “always” been in their own past, affecting their own future- in this way it’s really different from all the other time travel stories. In other words, what if their future hinges on screwing something up royally in 1969? Or just picking soup to eat for dinner as opposed to roasting hot dogs? Boy, I would really drive myself nuts if it had been me!

Anyway, I just love Jenny and Michael. When Sam tells Jack that he has to let Michael make up his own mind about draft-dodging, does she mean that because it will affect the timeline? Or because that’s the right thing for Michael? It seems to me that Sam enjoys being around another woman for once and that she and Jenny bond pretty fast. I wonder if seeing the feminine side of Sam for a week has any bearing on what happens with Jack in the next episode?

I liked how they cleverly concealed the name of the observatory. On the other hand they let Jack’s Roots hat slide (Roots was founded in the 80’s) but I forgive them because he was quite the hottie in this ep. This is the second time they leave him to deal with a giant telescope. Why not Sam? So Sam could go along as Daniel’s girlfriend to listen in on his conversation with Katherine? Was she pretending not to speak English there or pretending to be a dumb blonde? That scene has always seemed off to me, because she doesn’t say a word.

It’s interesting that in the end Sam tells Cassie what she has to do in the future. She wouldn’t normally intervene, but the reason why she tells Cassie to meet them is because she already did, so she knows she has to do it again. Like Hammond, it’s circular, and it’s this paradox that to me makes 1969 totally different from all the other time travel stories.

Spoiler:

They are going to return to a future that will be completely different if they don’t repeat what they already did- it's not just a matter of not interfering. Evidently, they must be close enough that when they return to the proper time, everything appears to be exactly the same as when they left. But I bet that there are going to be a few things not quite right that’ll make them wonder exactly what else in their lives was a little “off”. I’d hate to go through life not knowing whether I just forgot something, or if things were never that way in the first place.

Implications for Sam and Jack: None. This was just a fun and intersting episode. They looked quite nice together in their hippie/biker duds, although I don’t suppose hippies and bikers normally would hang out together much!

I wonder, though, what impact these events had off-screen. Because the next episode gives us a sudden burst of shippyness that had almost seems out of the blue.

Again - one of my very favorites.
But you do wonder about predetermination - whatever they do haven't they already done it? Do they have a real choice about what will happen - cause it already occurred????
Loved the outfits! And wondered about the time in the bus and camping we didn't see!! I wrote a little story about that but it was one of my first and probably needs to be reedited but I'm too lazy. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2082238/1/Smoke

[VSS]

Again - one of my very favorites.
But you do wonder about predetermination - whatever they do haven't they already done it? Do they have a real choice about what will happen - cause it already occurred????
Loved the outfits! And wondered about the time in the bus and camping we didn't see!! I wrote a little story about that but it was one of my first and probably needs to be reedited but I'm too lazy. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2082238/1/Smoke

Yes, exactly. Predeterminism is something that's hard for modern people to believe in but this kind of time travel story makes one wonder because normal causality goes out the window entirely. But there are lots of theories of time itself and what we perceive is probably only a small part of what's there so I'm not ruling out anything!

Although, the only part of their trip Hammond really had to worry about is the future part. If he was even able to worry about SG-1 that means they did close to the right thing in the past. And if they didn't do the right thing, he'd never know it.

Oh, another little thing I liked was Sam pulling the GDO out of her purse in the end. Cute, and kind of symbolic as far as Sam's life goes.

[starlover]

*hops in*

*waves*

The evil guest reviewer is back for the final episode of the season!!

I hope everyone thinks it's okay

Favorite quote: When Jack opens a door with a wall behind it: "Damn cost cutting."

Favorite scene: Since I love the gutter. The scene where Jack finds Sam and checks her out(twice!!)



How nice is it to start an episode with a half-naked and wet Jack. Yum. And they immediately tell him what happened and where he is. I find this a bit weird coz they don’t check on him first and will tell him later how everything is…but that’s probably just me.

I don’t understand that they start to question him while he is still foggy and half-asleep. Start to business, from what I’ve got the feeling so far in the SGC they’re a bit more emotional(is that the right word) instead of all business.

The new colonel? General? Explains to Jack that the bodies of SG1 are send back but dead. I can’t imagine anyone doing that without a reason…if the bodies would have come back one person would still be alive. I think that story would have been more credible(one member survived but died later on). I mean he can tell a lot since it is 79 years later there.

I do get the feeling though that Jack, from the start, doesn’t totally trust it. He has this…look…on his face….but he goes along with it anyways.

Why would someone in the SGC ask what advanced alien race could help them? I mean SG1 would have written reports on that and the SGC should know about this all and didn’t feel the need to ask Jack about it. Certainly not 79 years later. Though I must say I do like it to see the Nox again! The little kid from it is cute! And after that the Asgard, awww. Makes me miss Thor! The Asgard are one of the best alien races IMHO, I’m always happy to see them in an episode!(As long as Thor isn’t flirting with Sam or Jack )

Oohhh…and we suddenly see someone else coming out of a box…Apparently Jack wasn’t the only one(but it could still be 79 years later). Did I already mention that Daniel without clothes looks good!(while I’m not a Daniel thunker or so). And last but not least, we see Sam, she wakes up differently from the rest from what I see. I also find her reaction a bit better coz she immediately asks about her team and questions the woman…but I also find it in here weird that Sam doesn’t finds it strange that these questions are asked while they normally would be in a mission report.

I do think that after this moment we get to see a loooooot of flashbacks, but I don’t really have a problem with it. I do know that many people don’t like this sort of episodes.

And we see the SGC, now we know that everything what is happening with SG1 is wrong and what they’re telling them isn’t true. I like it in these early seasons how angry Teal’c looks. *giggles*…but also his loyalty to find his teammates is very big…this already says something about SG1 being too close IMHO. I do think a team that close, even when operating thisgood, shouldn’t be together for that long because of personal feelings for the teammates. And I’m not even starting with the whole S/J thing then…just the friendship. General Hammond does point it out in the scene with Teal’c(when he wants to leave the team) but still lets him go in the end.

Backity back to Jack and he’s holding his line so the gooey stuff doesn’t go to him(has he probably already suspected something??)..then he hears Goa’uld stuff and tries to make a run for it...GO Jack!
I do find it funny though that he puts the other, white, clothes on and when in the “SGC” stills tries to hide…why then the other clothes?(except for looking better in those)

Jack gets another flashback and it hurts a lot…it’s funny to see that because it was different when he was still hooked up to the gooey stuff.(you know the line with the purple/blue fluids)

He finds Sam. Squee! And he checks her out while deleting the line from her! She touches Jacks arm and there is no tension whatsoever, like its normal! Awwww…minute later still touching!

She sits up and he checks her out again, she doesn’t say anything about it. I’m curious how the whole thing went when she was putting clothes on*snort*. I can’t imagine Jack not watching…

And the whole cuddle in the corridor! Awwww…cute cute. No idea what they said during the scene, but it’s cute to see them together so close and comfortable! (I mean he touches her…erm…breasts almost) and she puts her hand over his!

After it they find Daniel and all the S/J only together stuff is over*pouts*
Hathor comes in at the end and Jack jokes his normal sarcastic stuff!How awesome! I love sarcastic!Jack

On a personal note,

Spoiler:

I started to watch this episode alone but as it continued my family came home and they all remembered it (while my parents don’t even watch SG1)
I think I've been watching SG a little bit too much

Implications for S/J: To be honest, I don't think that there are any for them. Even though we get some cute scenes in the end, there isn't really any progress for them. Perhaps subconsciously we see that they care for each other and feel…comfy…when touching one another! He he….but overall none really. If Jack or Sam would have specifically talked about one or the other for the information there could have been implications that said how much they cared, but there aren't any that we see. It's just cute shipping...I don't even think they are doing it conciously at that moment...well...except for maybe the oggling that Jack does

[Petra]

1969

So Hammond gives Sam the note after seeing the cut on her hand. I like the cut, it looks crappy just like you’d expect it to look on someone who’s on active duty out in the field. Then Jack gets whacked in the head by the sergeant. Now I know that’s got something to do with a real injury of RDA’s- who knows the story with that? Anyway, Hammond receives the note from the future and I find that extremely interesting. What must he have thought when he first met Jack? Do you think that all those years he resisted looking up who those people were?

This episode - I'm not original, it's also one of my favourites - made me really feel for Hammond. Boy, I can't imagine what he felt having to be so hard on Jack (he threw him to the brig!), so curt with Daniel in CotG, making things so difficult for Teal'c in The Enemy Within..all the time knowing these people will become his friends and will be essential to his future/past.

As a side-note: what "real injury of RDA"? I haven't heard anything..

Anyway, I just love Jenny and Michael. When Sam tells Jack that he has to let Michael make up his own mind about draft-dodging, does she mean that because it will affect the timeline? Or because that’s the right thing for Michael?

I think both. I got the impression that Jack really wanted to give Michael piece of advice and Sam thought it would be wrong time-travel-wise but also unfair to Michael, since SG-1 (except Teal'c ) already knew what would happen in Vietnam and their knowledge would influence their judgement.

It seems to me that Sam enjoys being around another woman for once and that she and Jenny bond pretty fast. I wonder if seeing the feminine side of Sam for a week has any bearing on what happens with Jack in the next episode?

Hm, interesting perspective, I haven't thought of that in this way. But it makes sense.

This is the second time they leave him to deal with a giant telescope. Why not Sam? So Sam could go along as Daniel’s girlfriend to listen in on his conversation with Katherine? Was she pretending not to speak English there or pretending to be a dumb blonde? That scene has always seemed off to me, because she doesn’t say a word.

Firstly, at this point Jack's established as experienced astronom, while Sam's theoretical astrophysist

I very much doubt Sam was pretending not to speak English. My take on the scene was that Daniel was doing the talking because he, as a linguist, could handle talking English with German accent - Sam probably couldn't do it, but as a person who knew Catherine well and was involved in the project the longest out of SG-1 she might have been needed to provide some information.

OUT OF MIND

Why would someone in the SGC ask what advanced alien race could help them? I mean SG1 would have written reports on that and the SGC should know about this all and didn’t feel the need to ask Jack about it.

I agree someone from SG-1 should have asked about the reports, but explaining it is pretty easy. It's been 79 years, a lot can happen in such a long time. The files could have been destroyed when SGC was attacked for instance, or the Pentagon could have lost them, like they did with "whole countrys" etc. It's not an issue for me.

Jack gets another flashback and it hurts a lot…it’s funny to see that because it was different when he was still hooked up to the gooey stuff.(you know the line with the purple/blue fluids)

Yep, I think it's pretty obvious that Jack didn't trust General Trofsky and decided to do some snooping around on his own. He's SF, it's part of his nature and training.
As for the liquid I assumed it was some mild sedative or something like that. Some painkiller andin larger doses something that would make them sleep/knock unconscious to avoid what Jack did anyway.

All in all, I quite like this one; it's the best clip show the series ever had, IMO.

I also love S/J ogling scene but for me it indicates only their ever-present physical attraction, which, probably due to the drugs/adrenaline/sheer relief that they are alive, they didn't manage to hide. It's the sort of thing good friends who find each other attractive would do. But personally I don't read it as a sign of deeper feelings. Not yet.

[VSS]

Implications for S/J: To be honest, I don't think that there are any for them. Even though we get some cute scenes in the end, there isn't really any progress for them. Perhaps subconsciously we see that they care for each other and feel…comfy…when touching one another! He he….but overall none really. If Jack or Sam would have specifically talked about one or the other for the information there could have been implications that said how much they cared, but there aren't any that we see. It's just cute shipping...I don't even think they are doing it conciously at that moment...well...except for maybe the oggling that Jack does

After watching all these eps in order, the thing that I find interesting is how very little ship there is in the second season after ItLoD and then bang! we get those seriously intense couple of moments. Another thing is that there are no lines here like they wrote for them in season 1, is just the acting and the chemistry which make it work.

As a side-note: what "real injury of RDA"? I haven't heard anything..

I thought it was a hockey injury, but I don't know if it was new or old and they just got tired of covering it up?

I think both. I got the impression that Jack really wanted to give Michael piece of advice and Sam thought it would be wrong time-travel-wise but also unfair to Michael, since SG-1 (except Teal'c ) already knew what would happen in Vietnam and their knowledge would influence their judgement.

Oh, I hadn't thought of that, but definitely if Michael knew we lost it could influence his decision.

My take on it was that Jack was about to launch into a lecture about serving one's country (since he did- though we don't really know if he was drafted I kind of think he wasn't) and Sam wanted him to let Michael make up his own mind, not only to preserve the timeline but because he needed to follow his own conscience.

Firstly, at this point Jack's established as experienced astronom, while Sam's theoretical astrophysist

I don't think he's all that experienced- he uses a hobbyist's telescope and peers at the neighbors from his roof! Certainly, it's better than nothing but not as good as Sam. As part of her physics degree Sam would have taken quite a bit of astronomy as an undergrad. Astrophysics is primarily a graduate degree, and I don't think she'd wait until then to start learning about the stars.

Spoiler:

The reason why I know this is because my eldest kid wants to major in physics and I'm spending the next four months trekking all over the country looking at programs. And the little shipper for years has been obsessed with astrophysics so I imagine I'll be doing it all over again in six years. But actually, I'm having a blast. Today we're going to Berkeley so I need to wrap this up.

After all, she's the one who warned him about the filter when he went in.

Although it does disappoint me that Jack pretends to be an idiot about it later on in the series (I forget the name of the ep). I never could figure out why they wrote it that way.

I very much doubt Sam was pretending not to speak English. My take on the scene was that Daniel was doing the talking because he, as a linguist, could handle talking English with German accent - Sam probably couldn't do it, but as a person who knew Catherine well and was involved in the project the longest out of SG-1 she might have been needed to provide some information.

Okay, that makes sense. But why didn't she say anything? Not even 'hello how are you?' It was just strange.

As for the liquid I assumed it was some mild sedative or something like that. Some painkiller andin larger doses something that would make them sleep/knock unconscious to avoid what Jack did anyway.

Yes, there are a lot of drugs that'll so that.

And starlover mentioned Sam being a little more alert initially- Maybe Sam woke up faster because of her experience with the symbiote, I think they reference that in Foothold.

All in all, I quite like this one; it's the best clip show the series ever had, IMO.

Me, too. There's enough going on that I don't even think of it as a clip show.

I also love S/J ogling scene but for me it indicates only their ever-present physical attraction, which, probably due to the drugs/adrenaline/sheer relief that they are alive, they didn't manage to hide. It's the sort of thing good friends who find each other attractive would do. But personally I don't read it as a sign of deeper feelings. Not yet.

I agree. I think the situation brought it out, but it's good to know that attraction is still there. I wonder what people thought who were around watching the eps as they aired.

Also, the seating arrangement did end up nonrandom this season, that is they sat together 4 times and apart 11 times, which is statistically significant (by my calculations, anyway). That's the opposite of last season. So I'd imagine that those little Sam/Jack moments came as quite a surprise to the viewing audience at the time.

And made them want to tune in next season.

[hedwig]

I don't think he's all that experienced- he uses a hobbyist's telescope and peers at the neighbors from his roof! Certainly, it's better than nothing but not as good as Sam. As part of her physics degree Sam would have taken quite a bit of astronomy as an undergrad. Astrophysics is primarily a graduate degree, and I don't think she'd wait until then to start learning about the stars.

Spoiler:

The reason why I know this is because my eldest kid wants to major in physics and I'm spending the next four months trekking all over the country looking at programs. And the little shipper for years has been obsessed with astrophysics so I imagine I'll be doing it all over again in six years. But actually, I'm having a blast. Today we're going to Berkeley so I need to wrap this up.

After all, she's the one who warned him about the filter when he went in.

I've always thought that Jack perhaps became interested in astronomy after returning from Abydos (and so his experience was fairly new by the time SG1 was formed), because of everything that happened there and the stargate and so forth. It certainly would have raised my interest level after an experience like that.

Okay, that makes sense. But why didn't she say anything? Not even 'hello how are you?' It was just strange.

I've often wondered if Catherine remembered Sam and Daniel as she got older. I would think she would have thought Sam looked very familiar when they met years later when they both worked on the Stargate program, since it was clear in The Torment of Tantalus that she and Sam knew each other. 30 years after 1969 is a long time, but it seems to me she would have wondered where she had met Sam before (and maybe Daniel, too), since she didn't look much different in 1997 than she did in 1969 - in spite of the clothing difference.

While I haven't seen the original Stargate movie in a long time, I wonder if maybe the meeting in 1969 was why Catherine went looking for Daniel in the movie (I don't remember what her reason was for that).

[VSS]

While I haven't seen the original Stargate movie in a long time, I wonder if maybe the meeting in 1969 was why Catherine went looking for Daniel in the movie (I don't remember what her reason was for that).

She didn't give a reason in the movie, I think he was just the one archeologist whose theories seem to fit with what the stargate might have been about.

I think you're right about the meeting in 1969 being the impetus for her research. Daniel referred to that in 1969. I'm guessing their visit got her interested in the stargate again and led to the program being resurrected in the 90's. That was one of the things Sam and Daniel wondered about- whether contacting her would be the right move to make the future play out properly. It was one of those instances where intervening would preserve the desired timeline as opposed to keeping a low profile like they did in every other time travel story. They had to guess whether or not the 1999 versions of themselves had really visited Katherine in 1969, and thanks to Daniel, they made the right choice.

Well, moving along to Season 3, tomorrow I'm going to be away from decent internet access for awhile again. I was struggling to keep up with it before when I went off the grid, so unless someone else would like to run this for a while I'll just start it up again in late August or September.

[Rachel500]

1969

I have to admit this makes my top ten list for favourite episodes. It's just a brilliantly funny, warm romp with huge amounts of teamy goodness.

And I love the time travel - as those who know me well will know already!

The idea of predestination is hinted at here. SG1 travel back to the past and affect their own timeline, perhaps even trigger the Air Force and Catherine to both start relooking into the Stargate. How much of an influence did seeing the team together in 1969 alter Hammond's actions in how he dealt with Jack, with Teal'c and Daniel? And did Catherine recognise Sam and Daniel? Surely she would. It's a fascinating idea.

I love the role Hammond plays both in having the courage to send them to the past; his younger self helping them out and his belief that they'll get home.

Equally, I just love Cassie turning up in the future to help them make the final leg of the journey in a self-fulfilling prophecy (Sam having told her she would).

It just all works.

There's not a great deal of Sam/Jack but I love the faith Jack has in Sam finding a way home for them (and love that Hammond effectively got to her to unknowingly find the solution back when she was exploring alternative uses for the Stargate), his not wanting to screw up and ruin proving her theory at the astronomy lab and there's just some nice beats between them (him passing her the mug of coffee, the exchange when he wants to respond to Michael).

My Aftershocks TAG to 1969 -

Can't Argue with Destiny

EDIT: On the why Jack at the astronomy lab...from a character point of view, Daniel was required to visit Catherine (knowledge of the Stargate history and archaeology background, relationship with Catherine, languages disguise), so the question of who would go with him. Teal'c was out (too hard to disguise) so he was definitely going to the astronomy lab either way. The choice would have been between Sam and Jack, and I can see one of the team suggesting that seeing Jack and Daniel together might be too obvious and would mean Catherine would recognise them later in the timeline potentially causing her to say something. Whereas, Sam and Daniel were never together in front of Catherine (in our universe) until The Torment of Tantalus and therefore maybe she wouldn't be so quick to put two and two together. Moreover, perhaps it was felt having a female go with Daniel would make the visit less threatening, make Catherine more at ease and likely to say something whereas two men may have been suspicious. So if Jack was ruled out of the visit to Catherine and Sam ruled in, it left Jack with the job at the astronomy lab which he could handle as an amateur astronomer (although I always felt it was well played that he was a little nervous about it).

[Rachel500]

Out of Mind

This is a relatively good clip show because it does have a story around it. I like the clips they show too which helps.

I love that Jack is suspicious. He just won't accept the story he's been given. And I love that he's so pleased to find Carter (love that the Message in a bottle stuff flashes up when Sam says she thought he was dead). They do touch without thinking or restraint. I do believe they know at this point individually that they care about the other more than they should but both are completely oblivious to the other's feelings and more are assured the other doesn't know about their own so there is no tension in simply touching (or looking).

It's nice that Hathor is back and that effectively she has come back to haunt them.

I love the scenes back at the base with Teal'c, Hammond and Janet; and yes, it really does show that even without Sam/Jack, the team has become closer than they really should.

In terms of shippiness, I don't think you can really review OOM without reviewing Into the Fire at the same time because they are a continuation of a story. On its own OOM is not that shippy but put together with Into the Fire (where Sam argues to rescue Jack, does go back for him, the hug, her running to him when he's shot at) the whole is shippy.