Anti-Ship Thread

[starfox]

Something which I have notice in myself is that as soon as a romance is forced onto the viewers within the first two seasons I am completely discusted and refused to be even remotely interested.

e.g. Angel/Buffy
Those two from Alias
Clark and Lana from Smallville
Angel and Kate (first two seasons from Angel)

Just to name a few examples.

I actually didn't really think much about the Angel/Kate thing (I was too busy shipping Doyle and Cordelia), but I had no problems with Sydney/whatever her handler's name was. Angel/Buffy was a little over-angsty for me at times, but I still liked it. In both of the above cases, the ship was well-written and plausible for who the characters were and where they were at that point in their lives/in the plot. I feel like Stargate ship can't be done that way and be in the foreground, just because of the nature of the plot.
Also, with Angel and Buffy and Alias, the viewers were given a good idea of who the characters were and what they were like right off the bat. With Atlantis, we're still working off vague outlines and not a lot of history (with the exception of Rodney). It's really hard to shape a workable, believable ship with characters that aren't fully developed.

Also in movies where the couples hardly knows each other but after one night's stand declare their ever lasting love is just plain stupid. That's not love, just lust in my personal opinion.

Amen to that.

[ShadowMaat]

Couples who go on one date which leads to a night of passionate sex (on a first date?!) and then the declarations of love... spare me.

The worst thing is, I recently wrote a story (original stuff) wherein two of the main characters were dating for a month or so but hadn't had sex and someone in my writer's group told me that it was "unrealistic" and implied that something had to be wrong with one or both of my characters if they weren't having sex.

WTF?

I know I've been out of the dating scene for a while, but do people REALLY have sex that fast? And it is common enough that NOT having sex is unusual? *boggles*

The problem with main character ship is that it's usually done because the main characters are supposed to be shipped together. It doesn't matter if the characters have nothing in common, have no chemistry, and have no earthly reason to be attracted to each other- they wind up together because they're "supposed" to. I hate that.

[Erised]

Couples who go on one date which leads to a night of passionate sex (on a first date?!) and then the declarations of love... spare me.

The worst thing is, I recently wrote a story (original stuff) wherein two of the main characters were dating for a month or so but hadn't had sex and someone in my writer's group told me that it was "unrealistic" and implied that something had to be wrong with one or both of my characters if they weren't having sex.

WTF?

I know I've been out of the dating scene for a while, but do people REALLY have sex that fast? And it is common enough that NOT having sex is unusual? *boggles*

The problem with main character ship is that it's usually done because the main characters are supposed to be shipped together. It doesn't matter if the characters have nothing in common, have no chemistry, and have no earthly reason to be attracted to each other- they wind up together because they're "supposed" to. I hate that.

unrealistic? oh come on! It's normal and no two people don't necessarily have to have sex as soon as they meet *sigh*
I may be a shipper but I prefer good friendship over a badly written ship.. I can fulfill my fantasies with fanfiction thank you very much
and *cough* I'd rather not ship when one of the characters is VERY BADLY written and screwed beyong belief...

[Dani347]

I know I've been out of the dating scene for a while, but do people REALLY have sex that fast? And it is common enough that NOT having sex is unusual? *boggles*

I'm a freak!

Of course, there is the flip side, where a writer drags out two people, teasing the audience, not having them get together and then finally at the end they do. And, that is a problem for two reasons. First of all the people that liked them had to put up with waiting. And, then, the people that didn't also had to put up with it, and it seems the longer a ship gets danced around, the more this feeling that it's some kind of mythical love of the ages thing. So, you have to watch two people who you had no interest in being together and also have to be force fed this idea that the stalling was worth it, because it was such a wonderful thing to wait for.

The problem with main character ship is that it's usually done because the main characters are supposed to be shipped together. It doesn't matter if the characters have nothing in common, have no chemistry, and have no earthly reason to be attracted to each other- they wind up together because they're "supposed" to. I hate that.

Me too. I have shipped for main characters, but not until they gave me a reason beyond it. And, it has to be more than they're nice and attractive.

Right now, I'm anti any ship that tptb actively persue. Leave it to the fans. Jack/Sam was a nightmare. I'm terrified at what will happen if they fully commit to a Daniel/Vala ship (maybe they already have, but I'd like to keep my rose colored glasses on a bit longer).

[NG.1]

Couples who go on one date which leads to a night of passionate sex (on a first date?!) and then the declarations of love... spare me.

The worst thing is, I recently wrote a story (original stuff) wherein two of the main characters were dating for a month or so but hadn't had sex and someone in my writer's group told me that it was "unrealistic" and implied that something had to be wrong with one or both of my characters if they weren't having sex.

WTF?

I know I've been out of the dating scene for a while, but do people REALLY have sex that fast? And it is common enough that NOT having sex is unusual? *boggles*

The problem with main character ship is that it's usually done because the main characters are supposed to be shipped together. It doesn't matter if the characters have nothing in common, have no chemistry, and have no earthly reason to be attracted to each other- they wind up together because they're "supposed" to. I hate that.

You know what is worse...in certain countries and cultures it is still considered the norm not to have sex until you are married or at the very least living with someone. Now to try and explain to people in "civilised" countries that that is not weird or abnormal is like trying to convince someone that the air is purple or something.

Maybe that is why the Aids figure in the world is so high and why one get so many teen pregnancies. A lot of people think they must have sex quickly with a partner or otherwise there is something wrong with them.

Sigh...

I think that is one reason why I am a sucker for old-fashioned romance on TV and movies, namely where there is no bed scenes. It is different that what is popular these days and it sets a better example for impressionable youth.

By the way I'm from South Africa.

[NG.1]

I actually didn't really think much about the Angel/Kate thing (I was too busy shipping Doyle and Cordelia), but I had no problems with Sydney/whatever her handler's name was. Angel/Buffy was a little over-angsty for me at times, but I still liked it. In both of the above cases, the ship was well-written and plausible for who the characters were and where they were at that point in their lives/in the plot. I feel like Stargate ship can't be done that way and be in the foreground, just because of the nature of the plot.
Also, with Angel and Buffy and Alias, the viewers were given a good idea of who the characters were and what they were like right off the bat. With Atlantis, we're still working off vague outlines and not a lot of history (with the exception of Rodney). It's really hard to shape a workable, believable ship with characters that aren't fully developed.


Amen to that.

Hi

My personal opinion regarding ships I don't like (as above) is to ignore it on TV.

I understand that there are people that enjoyed them, so like they say to each their own. Although I don't like them I'll still watch through the scenes and afterwards say, "yeah whatever."

Okay...I realise my post may seem like a hit to this anti-ship thread, but it's not meant to be that way.

You guys have the complete right to be complaining about ship in Stargate and I respect you for that. I was just trying to indicate how I normally behave when faced with ship I don't like.

As for movies...I love romantic stories, but are these days too afraid to go and watch a popular romantic movie. Reason being that it absolutely irritates the hell out of me seeing two virtually stranges jumping into bed together and then have this sudden love for each other afterwards.

And now people ask why marriage don't last sometimes. Part of the reason is that people have an unnatural expectation of marriage and when their expectation is not met they bail out.

Sooner or later the over-the-top passion is going to leave a marriage (the original lust is going to cool down) and then couples suddely realise they have absolutely nothing in common and not knowing how to face this new, unexpected twist they go for the easy option of a divorce.

I believe a couple must be able to still be friends after the original "passion" has left the marriage. This way they can still talk to each other as to what is missing in their marriage and work on it from there on.

[Dani347]

You know, sometimes I can ignore a ship. Especially when I'm not aware of it. I have no problems with people speculating about a Sam/Mitchell ship, because I don't see it, and more importantly, I don't see the writers trying to make me see it. Daniel/Sam ship doesn't bother me, because it doesn't exist in any form on my tv. But, once tptb actually say they want to pursue a ship, it's hard to escape (for me at least) even if I don't believe it.

[AdrianneP]

You know, sometimes I can ignore a ship. Especially when I'm not aware of it. I have no problems with people speculating about a Sam/Mitchell ship, because I don't see it, and more importantly, I don't see the writers trying to make me see it. Daniel/Sam ship doesn't bother me, because it doesn't exist in any form on my tv. But, once tptb actually say they want to pursue a ship, it's hard to escape (for me at least) even if I don't believe it.

I'm with you. I can ignore ship when it's not being shoved down my throat or it doesn't ruin an episode or scene for being so badly written and shoved so deeply down my throat as if the screen/writers are screaming in my face, "HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THE PASSION THESE TWO HAVE FOR ONE ANOTHER!?" Then I can ignore a ship ...

It's when it's being forced down my throat, then things get ugly.

NG.1, I like your thinking. Maybe I'll move to South Africa. I've had it suggested that I'm gay because of my thinking on sex and relationships.

Adrianne

[maxbo]

The first time I saw this thread I didn't believe it applied to me because I consider myself more of a non-ship supporter than an anti-shipper, but now I'm coming out of the closet, so to speak, to admit that I don't ever want to see ship directly addressed in the Stargate community, period. For ship to be even somewhat interesting, long-term, TPTB has to have a commitment to developing the characters first, and I don't see that in SGA, especially.

When I read AT's con report about the Sam/Jack thing, I cringed because I didn't even realize that people shipped Sam and Jack until I started visiting the SG boards late last year. In fact, I was so clueless about this ship that on another board I said that this ship was the perfect ship because TPTB had provided just enough to keep the shippers happy, but not so much that they alienated non-shippers. Boy, was I shown the error of my ways. That was my first SG lesson in how TPTB managed to piss everybody off when they tried to address ship and I fear the same will happen to SGA. Fortunately, because I hadn't seen much of season 6 and none of seasons 7 and 8, I missed the gory details.

So, no, no, no, to realized ship in the Stargate community. I have no problem with people seeing the shippiness in certain scenes, in fact, I enjoy reading the different interpretations, but I don't ever want to see any ship realized on SGA or SG-1. I think those who want their ships canonized should be careful of what they wish for because under this writing team, the results will probably be disastrous.

[ShadowMaat]

As far as Stargate is concerned, I say leave the shippyness up to the fans. At least THEY have half a clue about it and that way it won't destroy the show for everyone else.

[AdrianneP]

When I read AT's con report about the Sam/Jack thing, I cringed because I didn't even realize that people shipped Sam and Jack until I started visiting the SG boards late last year. In fact, I was so clueless about this ship that on another board I said that this ship was the perfect ship because TPTB had provided just enough to keep the shippers happy, but not so much that they alienated non-shippers. Boy, was I shown the error of my ways. That was my first SG lesson in how TPTB managed to piss everybody off when they tried to address ship and I fear the same will happen to SGA. Fortunately, because I hadn't seen much of season 6 and none of seasons 7 and 8, I missed the gory details.

I had the same thing. Thankfully, I read a little before I opened my mouth so I didn't find out the hard way ... and I asked someone nice for a clue as well and he didn't tear my head off in answering.

But I totally don't see the Sam & Jack ship. I'm watching the 2nd season now. I haven't seen the 6th, 7th, or 8th season yet ... But I just *do not* see the Ship. At all. In order for me to see it, Sam has GOT to stop calling Jack "Sir" ... Because to me it just sounds like she's whining and I want to whack her upside the head.

Adrianne

[Dani347]

You know, I don't think they really were trying to show ship in the early seasons. Or, I don't think they were actively pursuing it. IMO, AU's don't count. And, neither does The Broca Divide. Somehow, the image of Sam attacking Jack while under an alien influence doesn't bring violins and roses into my head. Like I said, I have no problem thinking that Jack and Sam might find each other attractive, but to me that's not ship. So, for the first three seasons, they were just going along, having a platonic relationship. Anything else was artificially constructed (I mean, it was written to be artificial, not artificial like the actual "ship" might be described). It really wasn't until season 7 (maybe 6, but I didn't see that) that they really started pushing the ship. Throwing hints, having people suggest things, having Sam act all lovesick over someone who didn't seem to show any interest. Season 8 actually started pretty well, but it went downhill later on.

Daniel and Vala are two different people and don't have the same problems that Jack and Sam did, but I think if they pursue this ship, there will be a completely new set of problems that will make me hate it. And, one thing I'm afraid this pairing would share is pushing ship over friendship.

[maxbo]

I had the same thing. Thankfully, I read a little before I opened my mouth so I didn't find out the hard way ... and I asked someone nice for a clue as well and he didn't tear my head off in answering.

But I totally don't see the Sam & Jack ship. I'm watching the 2nd season now. I haven't seen the 6th, 7th, or 8th season yet ... But I just *do not* see the Ship. At all. In order for me to see it, Sam has GOT to stop calling Jack "Sir" ... Because to me it just sounds like she's whining and I want to whack her upside the head.

Adrianne

Thankfully, I was fortunate enough to put my big foot in my mouth on a board where the posters were more curious about why I thought Sam/Jack worked for shippers and non-shippers than they were in attacking me, so it turned out to be a interesting experience where I got to hear how disappointed each group was.

The first question I was asked was if I had seen seasons 7 and 8 and when I admitted that I hadn't is when I was firmly, but gently, educated about how TPTB had managed to piss both groups off.

Dani347, when I saw the Broca Divide, I got more of a Daniel/Sam vibe than a Sam/Jack vibe and even the Daniel/Sam thing was too fleeting to be taken as shippy, IMO. I put this episode down as the same type of one-shot episode as that Star Trek Next Generation episode where several regular characters hooked up while under the influence.

[AdrianneP]

Dani347, when I saw the Broca Divide, I got more of a Daniel/Sam vibe than a Sam/Jack vibe and even the Daniel/Sam thing was too fleeting to be taken as shippy, IMO. I put this episode down as the same type of one-shot episode as that Star Trek Next Generation episode where several regular characters hooked up while under the influence.

See now in Season 1 and 2 I picked up many cute Sam/Daniel ship vibes ... And let them go because I so hate ship ... but cute and seeable. Now I'm seeing all this Daniel/Jack, Daniel/Any-male, he's-so-gay Ships and I'm just Huh? When did that happen!?

A lot of these pairs are "Mary Sues" (think that's the term), right? "I'm most like X and I really want Y so I like this 'Ship'."?

Adrianne

[Starfalcon]

You know, sometimes I can ignore a ship. Especially when I'm not aware of it. I have no problems with people speculating about a Sam/Mitchell ship, because I don't see it, and more importantly, I don't see the writers trying to make me see it. Daniel/Sam ship doesn't bother me, because it doesn't exist in any form on my tv. But, once tptb actually say they want to pursue a ship, it's hard to escape (for me at least) even if I don't believe it.

Before I start. I have nothing against ship. I think it´s nothing bad to have some romance in a TV show. But what I hate is when it get´s to much room in a show. I have read the spoilers for season 10 and always when I read

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

Daniels name it´s in connection with Vala and now as Jack is returning (what makes me very happy) all what I have heard it´s that most of it´s return is devoted to Sam/Jack ship.

I don´t mind some ship.
But too much is too much. And when the only thing what the script writers can think about how bring we another ship or sex scene in the script than they should maybe better work for O.C. or Desperate Housewifes.
I hope it´s will not be so bad as it looks now and I find enough things I like but I begin to doubt it.