The Host/Symbiote Relationship

[Dave2]

We know more about the quality of the Goa'uld/host relationship than about the Tok'ra/host relationship. The Goa'uld takes total control and pushes the mind of the host to that of a mere suffering observer for who knows how long. However, it isn't clear why the goa'uld just doesn't eliminate the host's mind altogether. On the other hand we see on rare occasions the host returns to control either permanently or temporarily. Under these conditions there would presumably be no room for any kind of inner struggle between the goa'uld and the host because the goa'uld is almost always in control.

On one occasion that I can remember a goa'uld spy sacrificed her life to arrange for the destruction of a naquedah bomb on Jonas's home planet. I believe this was the only case of a goa'uld turning good while still controling the host.

With regard to the Tok'ra, we assume there was never any conflict between the host and the tok'ra because they got along so well. However, there must be a situation where one or the other (neither of which is a perfect being) wants to assert control of the body for some reason, which itself could initiate a dispute even if unintentionally. Yet all we see is the possibility of a tok'ra and its host living in perfect harmony all the time, whereby unlike in the case of the goa'uld, most of the time the host to the tok'ra is in control and apparently the tok'ra is sitting back and watching.

[Starsaber]

With regard to the Tok'ra, we assume there was never any conflict between the host and the tok'ra because they got along so well. However, there must be a situation where one or the other (neither of which is a perfect being) wants to assert control of the body for some reason, which itself could initiate a dispute even if unintentionally. Yet all we see is the possibility of a tok'ra and its host living in perfect harmony all the time, whereby unlike in the case of the goa'uld, most of the time the host to the tok'ra is in control and apparently the tok'ra is sitting back and watching.

I would point to Abyss as an example of a situation where the Tok'ra took control of the host. Also, it seems like with most Tok'ra, the symbiote is dominant most of the time (based on voice). Jacob/Selmak seems to be the exception to the rule.

[fems]

The reason the Goa'uld don't eliminate the mind of their host (if such a thing were possible) is because they're sadistic and probably like to torment their host. Also, as we saw with Amaunet/Sha're if a female host were to get pregnant the symbiote has to "sleep" or a spontaneous abortion will occur, so it wouldn't be very handy to not have a mind left for the host at such a time...

[filter]

Maybe the goa'uld just can't eliminate the host mind entirely. Didn't Kendra (i think that's her name) say how she was able to influence her symbiote. Is it ever explained exactly how a tok'ra and host communicate with each other?

[Dave2]

I am not sure that's true. I seem to recall that the council members of the Tok'ra alternated between the host and the symbiote.
For that matter, we don't really know much about the interaction of the maturing symbiote and the Jaffa host. Does it ever appear that a goa'uld can be "changed" from its evil nature through the interaction with the Jaffa?
Cyr was the name of the host of the goa'uld who changed its personality from evil to help set off the naquadria bomb to save Jonas's planet.

I would point to Abyss as an example of a situation where the Tok'ra took control of the host. Also, it seems like with most Tok'ra, the symbiote is dominant most of the time (based on voice). Jacob/Selmak seems to be the exception to the rule.

[Skydiver]

As to the tok'ra, I think it varies from person to person. Have a meek host then you can have a stronger symbiote. Have a retiring mellow symbiote and the host can speak up.

I think there are also times when the symbiote needs to hide so the host is the 'driver' so to speak.

As to the goa'uld, I think how much they squash the host depends on how much they need to. I think it takes energy to make a host submissive and the goa'uld has to pick its battles. A goa'uld may not always have an unwilling host...for all we know some may have a good alliance of power hungry host and power hungry symbiote.

I think selmac kept quiet simply to help the SGC 'forget' that jacob was a host. the more 'normal' jacob acted, the more he was trusted and the better he could do his job. (I'm not saying jacob was a bad guy just that he and selmac worked together to keep jacob's credibility intact)

[garhkal]

Combine that with the mind of the host may be too strong for the symbiots to override all the time.

[SF_and_Coffee]

I've always speculated that among the Tok'ra, whenever it is possible for a symbiote to actually have a choice of hosts, the symbiote selects the host whose personality and attitudes are most compatible with its own. In a mutually-compatible pairing, I doubt there's much friction over who "drives" most of the time -- host and symbiote would likely take turns depending on the situation. Witness Selmak and Jacob, as has been suggested, or even Lantash and Martouf. And I would guess that Selmak probably had a fairly equitable relationship with Saroosh, Jacob's predecessor as host.

After all, by the Tok'ra's own philosophy, symbiote/host relationships should always be a matter of partnership and true symbiosis, never one of parasitism and domination.

[Dave2]

Has anyone ever attempted to clearly describe the experience of the host/symbiote interaction, either in technical writing or using visual technology. What does it "feel like" to be a host when the symbiote runs the body, either in a goa'uld or in a tok'ra?
Also, how do we understand the selfless attitude of the goa'uld Cyr when planting the bomb to save Kelowna? And is it possible that some goa'uld really are not as evil as they seem, i.e. Baal or Cronus.
Don't anyone mention Anubis , because I found I didn't like that character's role in SG1 at all.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Well, plenty of fanfic writers have described their take on the host/symbiote experience. I do it myself in All That We Leave Behind which has significant supporting (original) characters who are Tok'ra and in Sabar's Tale which features an original Tok'ra character as its protagonist.

[Dave2]

Sounds interesting, I am not familiar with that writing at all.......I guess writers have interesting takes on it, but on the big or small screen would be especially interesting.....

Well, plenty of fanfic writers have described their take on the host/symbiote experience. I do it myself in All That We Leave Behind which has significant supporting (original) characters who are Tok'ra and in Sabar's Tale which features an original Tok'ra character as its protagonist.

[Starsaber]

One of the SG-1 Big Finish audio dramas (Series 3, Episode 2 IIRC) has a Ba'al clone where the symbiote personality was only able to maintain control part of the time, so there's a bit of the host POV there too.

[tlw]

I am not sure that's true. I seem to recall that the council members of the Tok'ra alternated between the host and the symbiote.
For that matter, we don't really know much about the interaction of the maturing symbiote and the Jaffa host. Does it ever appear that a goa'uld can be "changed" from its evil nature through the interaction with the Jaffa?
Cyr was the name of the host of the goa'uld who changed its personality from evil to help set off the naquadria bomb to save Jonas's planet.

In the episode Crossroads, Sho'nac was tricked into believing by Tanith that she had coverted him. But it was just a way for him to infiltrate the Tok'ra.

This leads me to another question, did Tanith's host Hebron know what Tanith was really like and could simply do nothing about it? Or was Tanith hiding his true nature from Hebron? In other words, when Hebron spoke and said he was quite himself, was it really him speaking or Tanith pretending to be him. Remember they did not really have to do the weird voice when the symbiote was in control, that was just part of the "image".

[Dave2]

I thought all goa'uld spoke in the non-human voice to distinguish it from the host. How many cases were there of a goa'uld who spoke in normal human voice masquerading as the host??

In the episode Crossroads, Sho'nac was tricked into believing by Tanith that she had coverted him. But it was just a way for him to infiltrate the Tok'ra.

This leads me to another question, did Tanith's host Hebron know what Tanith was really like and could simply do nothing about it? Or was Tanith hiding his true nature from Hebron? In other words, when Hebron spoke and said he was quite himself, was it really him speaking or Tanith pretending to be him. Remember they did not really have to do the weird voice when the symbiote was in control, that was just part of the "image".

[Starsaber]

I thought all goa'uld spoke in the non-human voice to distinguish it from the host. How many cases were there of a goa'uld who spoke in normal human voice masquerading as the host??

Nightalkers (the bar scene for example) and the Goa'uld who took over The Trust off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure Ba'al has a few times too.

And yes, I agree that it was Tanith pretending to be the host after his implantation.

EDIT: Oh, and Imhotep when he was pretending to be a Jaffa. The only time he used the Goa'uld voice was when he was about to kill Teal'c.