In many SG-1 eps, the NID(later the renegade Trust) can be primary antagonists. They seem to be a sort of criminal version of the SGC sometimes. Later, their position as the main "annoying hate-protagonists, love-interfering" guys are replaced by the more diplomatic IOA whose only NID-like move was in Ark of Truth when they made an idiotic plan to use the Replicators against the Ori. The question stands: who was worse?
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"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care... or why it should be necessary to prove it at all." -
The IOA
The NID were thieves and a pain to deal with, but the insidiousness of the IOA was just annoying. Nothing is more frustrating than jerks in power, that stab you in the back legally and that you really can't fight. -
I disagree.
Firstly we need to seperate the NID from the rogue NID/The Trust. The former IS a legitimate intelligence organisation.
Personally, I would argue that the Trust is 'the worst', because they do not represent state interests, rather they represent personal interests on a profit-making level.
The IOA is, regardless of what many think, an essential organisation. No military arm should be allowed free reign, making decisions with resounding political-strategic consequences. There MUST be some form of political oversight, and when that many countries are involved, the IOA is one of the best options. If anything, they should have have more power, frankly. Granted, not all their ideas were the best, but let's face it, they're new and inexperienced, and perhaps if the SGC didn't make out like they were the enemy, they might have been willing to accept more of the advice passed up from the SGC.
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Yes, agreed.Originally posted by Flyboy View Post
Er.....frankly I hate politics and politicians. Even if one has a good intentions and unselfish goals, he will be swamped by the 10-1 ratio of the selfish backbiting puss faced porkers.The IOA is, regardless of what many think, an essential organisation. No military arm should be allowed free reign, making decisions with resounding political-strategic consequences. There MUST be some form of political oversight, and when that many countries are involved, the IOA is one of the best options. If anything, they should have have more power, frankly. Granted, not all their ideas were the best, but let's face it, they're new and inexperienced, and perhaps if the SGC didn't make out like they were the enemy, they might have been willing to accept more of the advice passed up from the SGC.
More to the point, the IOA, being so inexperienced, should not have tried to reign in the veterans so strongly so quickly. The problem with civilian oversight is that they were not trained in military matters and tactics unlike the military SGC. Never mind the fact that these "blowheart politicians"(to quote Landry) were more concerned with their own careers and penny pinching then actually benefitting earth as was shown in the series. However, the military is on the other end of the spectrum, nether end is balanced.
Which one was worse? NID/trust. At least the IOA never got infiltrated and brainwashed and almost caused the destruction of Atlantas or the infiltration of the entire U.S government with parasitic aliens.sigpicHe who controls the spice controls the universe!(And the kitchen.)
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I hate it when politicians actually simply ignore people for their own stupid careers.
Woolsey was the only good IOA chap unlike some other guys like Marrick(he was the closest to NID). Oh and there was a Major too(he was the best example of good NID we got).
Worst NID guy was probably Simmons(Maybourne really wasn't bad, I think he was just corrupted or sth.)"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care... or why it should be necessary to prove it at all."Comment
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To be fair our first introduction to the NID with Colonel Kennedy and later Maybourne (before going rogue) weren't that positive either. Then the Rogue NID happened, folllowed by the Trust. After those elements were gone the NID was depicted as oh so helpful (Barrett) and suddenly they were very different from even the first glimpses we got of them.Originally posted by Flyboy View PostUnmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
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Strictly speaking, you're confusing politicians with civil-servants. I'm not saying that civil-servants are angels, but they're usually a little less slimey than politicians. The problem is, it's always rare that the political oversight understands what the military goes through, and it's frequent that some form of micro-managing occurs.Originally posted by Gormagon View Post
That the SGC, however, were able to get away with so much without oversight for so long is amazing. Particularly when we consider the fact that Hammond essentially strong-armed the UNSC P5 through intimidation via Thor is unbelievable. The IOA's concerns were entirely founded, and let's face it, Hammond and O'Neill WERE dictating policy and having more power than they should. It's entirely understandable why the IOA made decisions such as wanting to keep Anubis Jr alive. Frankly, if we take a moment to detatch ourselves from our affection for the SG-1 and the SGC, their conduct has been appauling. The unwillingness to accomodate other nations, for example. From the very first moment international oversight was forced on the SGC, they made it very clear that they wanted to carry on working as they saw fit. Which is not always the case, even in the real world, the military has had to be reigned in by political persons. I can give you two examples off the top of my head from America.
Even the NID was treated far too hostiley - whilst it may have been 'the right thing' to allow the Tollan to escape from Maybourne's forces, if that was a legit operation, then what the hell did they think they were doing? Even the illegal offworld ops, were they really illegal? Or just covert...?
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The IOA doesn't really seem to be that much of a problem. Really, they were just bureaucrats who got in the way, something that happens in real life. I loved how they were always a threat to Weir's command during Seasons 2&3, it gave the character some great conflict.
As for the NID, that one was far worse. The IOA is just a group of people who can't make a decision or at worst, make a bad one. The NID was all about "National Intelligence Division/Department" (guessing), but they seemed to hold no moral cold. The NID was all about the ends justify the means. Taking that into the account, I'd rather deal with the IOA. I'll take a desk jockey over a spook any day. hahaComment
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Simmons was even worse than Kennedy and Maybourne. And that Samuels guy from Season 1."I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care... or why it should be necessary to prove it at all."Comment
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Too true.. Though the IOA's backstabbing and political machinations more than likely sounded them out to be not worthy of infiltrating to the Gou'ald, as they were already doing us harmOriginally posted by Gormagon View Post
IIRC Agent barret is FBI not NID.To be fair our first introduction to the NID with Colonel Kennedy and later Maybourne (before going rogue) weren't that positive either. Then the Rogue NID happened, folllowed by the Trust. After those elements were gone the NID was depicted as oh so helpful (Barrett) and suddenly they were very different from even the first glimpses we got of them.Comment
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You recalled incorrectly. Barret is NID.Originally posted by aretood2Comment
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Does any member of the FBI even know that the SGC exists?"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care... or why it should be necessary to prove it at all."Comment
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Still haven't got an answer... so... Which is worse: NID or IOA?"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care... or why it should be necessary to prove it at all."Comment
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Because it's a poorly worded question! What more answers do you want?Originally posted by rushy View Post
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