Browder's character should OUTRANK Carter

[binkpmmc]

So if Mitchell keeps command, it's cause TPTB are sexist and pandering to the male demographic, but if Carter gets command back, that's not??

No. I have no idea if TPTB or the suits are themselves, in their personal lives sexist or not, I do not care. IF mitchell stays in charge of the team TPTB and the Suits are pandering to a lowest common denominator demographic and they believe that particular demogrphic that they are pandering to needs to have the big, brawny man as lead, among other things. If mitchell retains command TPTB and the suits are sexist in the context of their decisionmaking for the show.

If Carter gets command back in Beach Head, that will be simply TPTB pandering to a different crowd.

No. THAT will be continuing this character's story arc.

[IncessantBabbler]

Ok then, list off all the non SG-1 characters we;ve seen on the base.
I'll start you off
Hammond
Siler
Chevron Guy.
That's about it. Where exactly did ytou want to see Cam??

Let's just drop this little obscure part of the argument. The only time I want to see Cam is from Avalon on.

Sam is a seasoned pilot. Daniel helped plan and execute a guerilla war.
I think they are both qualified
Sam does have training, but there are LAWS against her serving in an infantry unit. Do you understand that???

No. I don't understand it. I've never understood it. I've never heard of it before, and I don't think I've heard or read of anyone else making these claims. Do you mind citing this information, please? THEN I'd probably understand.

Infantry is what SG-1 do, it's where you run around with the gun in the trenches and shoot the other side.
Combat and infantry are NOT one and the same. A fist fight is combat. So is a dogfight, so is a subamarine battle.
Infantry are ground troops.
Sam may be trained, but she is NOT a seasoned infantry officer.

You understand why I'm confused here right? You say that SG-1's missions DO meet the requirements of YOUR definition of "infantry," but that Sam, someone who has BEEN on SG-1 for eight years, is not a seasoned infantry officer? OK... That makes perfect sense.

The fact is, his combat skills are irrelevant. His knowledge and expertise are needed. That is why he is part of the team. Same with Carter. If she was a civialia (ala Moebius) she'd still be needed. IT's her science skills, not her comabt one, that got her the SG-1 spot.

It's my understanding that her science skills got her leg-up, but that the combination of her Air Force training AND her knowledge of the Stargate got her the job. Her intelligence was important, but her duties to the military exceed everything else.

WHAT???
Her posting is temporary because of promo pics?? when we know she is convinced to rejoin the team in or after 'Beach Head'???
There are so many holes in that.
Just becuase she rejoins does NOIT mean it's a temp posting. Given the team being disbanded, I'd say it's likely that it WASN'T a temp posting.

I'm not gonna get in a full-fledged argument with you over the complete definition of "temporary." However, one would assume that temporary means "not forever" or "not until the end of one's career." If Sam comes back after 6+ weeks of working in Area 51, I'd say that's pretty dang temporary, no matter what the reasons for her return are.

We know that 1)SG-1 is disbanded(and it's hinted it's at their request).
THat's enough to back my side.

Not disputing that.

Well, when you disband your team, chances are you want to leave.
Basically, if Carter wanted to retain command of SG-1, she would have.

I suppose you know for a fact that SAM is the reason for the team disbanding, and that it's simply not an agreement made by all three of them. I also assume that means you've seen Avalon Part I or something.

No they haven't. They simply havne't told us if cam or sam commands.

Yes. Thank you for reiterating my point. Again.

Yes, since, if you've read this thread, you've read that I think sam has more than enough on her plate that adding command to that overloads her and leaves Mitchell with nothing to do on teh team but die.

They had Teal'c on the team with little more than a nod of his head, a cross of his muscular arms, and a solemn, "Indeed." They had him on the show that way for nearly FIVE years and few made a stink about it. So why is it so incredibly important to ensure that Mitchell has some kind of headway on this team?

Why??? Cause we happen to agree sam shouldn't command??
Cause we don't like the character??(I like her, other's mighn't)
Or just cuase we disagree with you? Cause that's what I'm hearing here/
Also, some of us have seen BB in Farscape and thought he did an awesome job.
THat colors things here to a degree.

If BB's Cam leads SG-1 over AT's Sam, I'm sure he'll do a heckuva job. He's obviously leadership material. However this extends to the real life issues of having a strong woman lead over a strong man, as others have already said.

LOL REALLY???
Daniel:Genius, ancient cultures, languages, passable fighter.
O'Niell:FIghter, pilot.
Teal'c:Fighter, intelligence resource
Carter:Genius in several disciplines. Multiple PHD's. Fighter pilot. Advanced hand to hand fighting, marksman(or markswoman).
Hmm, Who has the biggest list. Carter has so many skills they are coming out her backside. And yet, command MUST be added for her to be fulfilled.

Daniel: Genius, studies ancient cultures, archaeologist, speaks various languages - which include the alien ones Goa'uld and Ancient, gun-toter/fighter, diplomat, the Chosen One for all things Ascended and Ancient.

O'Neill: Gun-toter/Fighter, pilot, ultimate leader, at times forced into diplomacy, 2nd most likely to get whumped, one for the "do, or die" missions, and finally the Chosen One who happens to be a gene above everyone else and is adored by the Asgard race.

Teal'c: All-Around Fighter, the brawn, intelligence resource, good for the "there once was a story I heard as a child" deal, jaffa leader.

Carter: Genius in several disciplines (which includes the Ph., Ds), gun-toter/fighter, pilot (rarely used), advanced hand-to-hand fighting (rarely used), marksman, has the ability to use Goa'uld technology (never used).

I'd say that, with the exception of Teal'c, the lists are pretty equal. They're also equally utilized in the show.

Promo pics?? We know Carter rejoins SG-1. This proves nothing.

Again, you're getting exceptionally good at repeating what I say.

Well, you appear to think she should get it the minute she goes to the SGC, so I don't think it has.

Not necessarily the minute she gets to the SGC. They have a weapon to try out after all.

Again, I wll NOT trust someone I've known for 6 weeks over someone I've known for 8 Years.
IF it came down to it, Danny and Teal'c would back Carter, no question.

So you're agreeing that that's a normal feeling - to trust someone you've known for nearly a decade over someone you've known for six weeks. Good. Now, is this just about the TITLE of CO to you, or what?

If you think it's logically gonna happen anyway, why have Mitchell go through all of those sleepless nights wondering if he'll have control of the guys this next mission without that haughty Carter overstepping her bounds? Why bother? Because it's fair to give someone else a chance at command? Because it's NOT fair for Carter to have it all?

The problem isn't that Carter's too developed for the job; it's that Mitchell's too UNDERdeveloped for the job.

At least for now. We'll see.

[Lightsabre]

No. I don't understand it. I've never understood it. I've never heard of it before, and I don't think I've heard or read of anyone else making these claims. Do you mind citing this information, please? THEN I'd probably understand.

There is an entire thread on it. Women in the military in Stargate.
Others will tell you the same. WOmen, in the US, cannot be part of a frontline infantry unit.
This is a real world fact. IF you still don't get that, I give up

You understand why I'm confused here right? You say that SG-1's missions DO meet the requirements of YOUR definition of "infantry," but that Sam, someone who has BEEN on SG-1 for eight years, is not a seasoned infantry officer? OK... That makes perfect sense.

FOR GODS SAKE. You were talking about WHEN SHE JOINED. When she joined, she was not a seasoned infantry officer. She is now.

It's my understanding that her science skills got her leg-up, but that the combination of her Air Force training AND her knowledge of the Stargate got her the job. Her intelligence was important, but her duties to the military exceed everything else.

Really? Cuase her military stuff always comes way behind the science stuff.
Carter, without the genius, would have been no where near the stargate.

I'm not gonna get in a full-fledged argument with you over the complete definition of "temporary." However, one would assume that temporary means "not forever" or "not until the end of one's career." If Sam comes back after 6+ weeks of working in Area 51, I'd say that's pretty dang temporary, no matter what the reasons for her return are.

Temporary means when she left, she was coming back
SHe wasn't, at least, not from what I get from the spoilers.
So her re-assignment WASN'T temporary.

I suppose you know for a fact that SAM is the reason for the team disbanding, and that it's simply not an agreement made by all three of them. I also assume that means you've seen Avalon Part I or something.

My god. I never said Sam was the reason for the disbanding.
What I said was that if the others decided to go and she didnt' want to, she could have kept command of SG-1. She chose to let it go.

Yes. Thank you for reiterating my point. Again.

I was actually disagreeing with your point, but what the hell.

They had Teal'c on the team with little more than a nod of his head, a cross of his muscular arms, and a solemn, "Indeed." They had him on the show that way for nearly FIVE years and few made a stink about it. So why is it so incredibly important to ensure that Mitchell has some kind of headway on this team?

Teal'c was far more than that. In the early seasons, he was a source of intelligence on the go'auld.
Later, it became about freeing the Jaffa.

If BB's Cam leads SG-1 over AT's Sam, I'm sure he'll do a heckuva job. He's obviously leadership material. However this extends to the real life issues of having a strong woman lead over a strong man, as others have already said.

WHAT???
Like SG-1 woiuld be so much better if a woman led. This is BS.
Please don't push your social reformation ideas here.

Daniel: Genius, studies ancient cultures, archaeologist, speaks various languages - which include the alien ones Goa'uld and Ancient, gun-toter/fighter, diplomat, the Chosen One for all things Ascended and Ancient.

O'Neill: Gun-toter/Fighter, pilot, ultimate leader, at times forced into diplomacy, 2nd most likely to get whumped, one for the "do, or die" missions, and finally the Chosen One who happens to be a gene above everyone else and is adored by the Asgard race.

Teal'c: All-Around Fighter, the brawn, intelligence resource, good for the "there once was a story I heard as a child" deal, jaffa leader.

Carter: Genius in several disciplines (which includes the Ph., Ds), gun-toter/fighter, pilot (rarely used), advanced hand-to-hand fighting (rarely used), marksman, has the ability to use Goa'uld technology (never used).

I'd say that, with the exception of Teal'c, the lists are pretty equal. They're also equally utilized in the show.

Beloved of the Asgard is a skill?? Ultimate leader?? O'Niell is by no means a diplomat, by his own admission, he SUCKS at it.
Most likely to get whumped? that is a skill??
You can't just pad these things out and expect to be taken seriously you know.

Again, you're getting exceptionally good at repeating what I say.

Hmm, that's weirdm cause, again, disagreeing with ouy.

Not necessarily the minute she gets to the SGC. They have a weapon to try out after all.

SO if ALL she was doing at teh SGC was setting up the weapon, she needs to command SG-1 to do that????

So you're agreeing that that's a normal feeling - to trust someone you've known for nearly a decade over someone you've known for six weeks. Good. Now, is this just about the TITLE of CO to you, or what?

Never said it wasn't.
What's your point.
If Mitchell is commanding, the other HAVE to listen to him. If Carter is, tehy don't and as you pointed you, they won;t.
It's not about the title, tho it seems to be for you.

If you think it's logically gonna happen anyway, why have Mitchell go through all of those sleepless nights wondering if he'll have control of the guys this next mission without that haughty Carter overstepping her bounds? Why bother? Because it's fair to give someone else a chance at command? Because it's NOT fair for Carter to have it all?

Becuase him being in command means he doesn't have to worry. He's in command. No one said it was about denying Carter command. WHat we're saying is it's wrong to demote Mitchell just cuase Carter is back.

The problem isn't that Carter's too developed for the job; it's that Mitchell's too UNDERdeveloped for the job.

At least for now. We'll see.

Love to hear the reasoning behind this one.

[SueS]

I also think that his "backstory" it is all to forced, phony and waay too convenient. IMO it is wholly unbeliveable that a guy who is supposed to be a hero in the SGC program and a "friend" to, or "known to" the members of the real SG1 was never ONCE mentioned in 8 years but he miraculously appears to be the hero, the friend and the new leader because he has sooo much experience in the Stargate program (last time I looked there was only ONE SGC where the Stargate program is based and to have NEVER heard of this guy just makes it another one of TPTB desperate plot devices at the expense of the characters (in this case Carter). I can see the handwriting of a certain someone all over this one.

But, this is not the first time a backstory has been written for a character who has never ONCE been mentioned before and it's not the first time we've been told to assume that someone at the SGC knows a previously unknown (to us) character. It's done all the time. Prior to Crystal Skull, we had no knowledge that Daniel had a grandfather. Prior to The Curse we had no idea that Daniel had a girlfriend named Sarah Gardner. In Forever And A Day, despite having never heard of the man, not only does Robert Rothman take over Daniel's position on SG-1 after he quits, but we also find out through his backstory that he and Daniel are friends. Secrets was the first time we heard about Sam's father Jacob. Don't you think it odd, that in all this time at the SGC, that she never once mentioned her father? And Covenant was the first time I had any idea that Sam Carter was friends with multi-millionaire Alec Coulson.

I said it before and I'll say it again - if there was to be a newly formed SG1 why should we believe that this new guy should get the posting - am I to believe, on top of all the forced and phony backstory for this guy that there was not ONE Major, Lt. Colonel or Colonel from the other SG teams who could have been given command of SG1, if it was necessary?

So, if they had given permanent command to someone like Colonel Edwards (Enemy Mine) or Colonel Dixon (Heroes), and Sam had to be under their command when she returned, you wouldn't have a problem with that? (BTW, prior to these episodes, we had never heard of Edwards or Dixon?)

It may be your opinion that Mitchell's backstory is forced and phony, but the fact is this is the backstory the character has been given, and personally, I have no problem with it.

This all just reeks of we wanted browder cuz he's the name, so we hired him (no audition necessary - sorry unless they show me the audition tape there is absolutely no way in he__ this guy auditioned),

You say this as if it were a bad thing.

Now, I have no idea what the situation was that led to Ben being given the part of Colonel Mitchell, whether he auditioned for the part or whether he was flat out offer the part, but let's for the sake of argument say that there was no audition and tptb just flat out offered him the part. What's wrong with that? I mean, this would not be the first time in the history of film that an actor has been offered role based on his previous work.

But, the fact of the matter is, we don't know the particulars regarding Ben's hiring, so IMO, it is unfair to Ben and everyone else, to go around making assumptions as to how and why he was hired. Suffice it to say that he was hired because tptb believed he could do the job.

oh and BTW he's too big to put in a secondary role to a WOMAN (God forbid) so let's make up a phony story that the lemmings will all buy and love (and if they don't they are unintelligent, useless fans that we don't care about because we don't need them anyway - we have our nice new shiny toy and our nice new Farscape fans).

So, the fans who do buy and love Mitchell's backstory are lemmings? Isn't this another way of saying they are unintelligent? You know, I don't think I've read anything anywhere that suggests that the tptb think the fans are unintelligent because they've chosen to accept Mitchell's backstory or because they've chosen NOT to accept Mitchell's backstory. I have, however, read things that suggest tptb are aware that some fans are not happen with Mitchell and they are hoping that these fans will give Mitchell a chance.

Then let's have a PR blitz that makes it seem like SG1 was a hack show BEFORE browder and black came to pass and ignore the fact that there are 3 main characters returning whose blood and sweat have made the show a hit for Skiffy for 5 years (along with the fans of the PAST 8 years) but God Forbid they acknowledge those 2 points - it's all browder, all the time, at the expense of the other actors (TPTB sacrifice actors as well as characters).

Hey, personally, I'd like to see a lot more PR devoted to Daniel (Michael Shanks), but Ben Browder is the new guy so of course they are going to promote him and I'm not going to deny him his moment in the sun simply because I like Daniel and would like to see a lot more of him.

As far as making SG1 seem like a hack show before Browder and Black came along, I haven't seen that. What I have seen is tptb and actors alike expressing excitement over what's ahead in S9, which is really no different than what they did at the beginning of S7 or S8.

Finally, they completley and totally ignore the FACT that Carter was the leader of SG1 in season 8 (regardless of whether it was good or bad or whether it was opportunity wasted by TPTB with the sorry a$$ stories they worte for the character - she was in FACT the leader of SG1)

But we haven't seen S9 yet, so how do you know they are going to completely and totally ignore the FACT that Carter was the leader of SG-1 in S8?

and have the PR machine indicate that browder's mitchell is replacing O'Neill as the leader of the team - what a bunch of hooey - how stupid do TPTB think the fans of the PAST 8 years are?

And here I thought all the hoopla on this thread was because Mitchell was replacing Carter as the leader of SG-1.

BTW, this is what Ben Browder said in the latest Stargate magazine (July/Aug) regarding his replacing RDA.

Although Browder is joining Stargate SG-1 in the same season that Richard Dean Anderson is bowing out as a series regular, he is quick to dismiss the idea that he has been brought in to emulate Anderson's work as Jack O'Neill. "I don't think you can replace someone like him and I certainly haven't taken it upon myself to replace him," he states firmly. "I don't think the producers or the audience want me to replace Richard Dean Anderson. And on a day-to-day basis, Richard was a producer on the show, his name was above the title, - and I'm not doing that."

"I'm stepping into the show as a member of SG-1, not stepping into the show as Richard Dean Anderson, Jr."

Finally, this is more of a curiosity on my part, but is there any reason why you write Ben Browder, Mitchell or (Claudia) Black in lower-case? I notice you don't do it with anyone else's name, so I figure there must be a reason you do it with their names.



SueS

[majorsal]

Sam may not get to lead SG-1. Personally, I hope she doesn't, because I think there's more conflict and drama inherent in that scenario than her taking command. That doesn't necessarily mean I don't like the character, or that I think she's unfit for command. I do like her. Not as much in recent years, but my opinions on characters tend to go up and down as I follow the storyline.

for me, being the HUGE sam fan that i am, i never considered sam getting the chance to lead sg1 on option. it never crossed my mind. then the show made her the team leader. 'then', i was excited to see her in this role. season 8 didn't really give us a good glimpse at what sam would be like as sg1's leader. we got glimpses, but we really didn't get to see her dive in and make the pool her own.

whether sg1 disbanded and everyone went their ways (but still remained friends), and whether mitchell brought sg1 back together, and whether he got command because sam wasn't there to lead it anymore, i STILL want to see sam have sg1.

i understand why browder was hired. i understand why mitchell's commanding sg1 in those first five eps, but that doesn't take away my desire to see sam lead sg1. i'm sure there's behind the scenes things going on (like amanda not wanting to work as much now and such) that have made some of these issues come up, but...

(trying) to be realistic, here's what i hope for. sam gets sg1. she gets the chance to shine in that role, BEFORE the team is given to mitchell. since i don't how much amanda wants to work, and how much longer she even wants to be on the show, i'm willing to contemplate that this might be what amanda wants. but before mitchell 'really' gets this team, i'd love to see sam get a chance to own it, hook, line, and sinker.


sally

[chocdoc]

As far as "proven officer" I assume you meant Carter. So, the question "don't you think that the proven officer would keep his/her command?" seems to imply that Mitchel is taking command away from Carter. However, there is nothing in the spoilers to indicate that this is the case.

While recovering from his injuries, Mitchell is promised a position on SG-1. (JMO, but I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that the reason Jack didn't want to assign a fourth member to the team in S8, was because he had promised Mitchell that assignment.). But, when Mitchell arrives at the SGC he finds out that the team has been disbanded. Daniel is getting ready to go to Atlantis, Teal'c is on Dakara helping to establish the new Free Jaffa Nation, and Sam is looking after Area 51 and helping Cassie deal with her mom's death. Landry hands Mitchell a stack of papers and tells him to put his team together. So, this is not a situation where Mitchell is taking command away from Carter.

Since this is now Mitchell's team, then when Carter returns she will be under his command.




Well, I think the character of Lt. Col. Cameron Mitchell should be given command of SG-1. However, I've never watched Farscape, never heard of Ben Browder until I found out that he had been given a role on Stargate, so I don't think I could be accused of Browder favoritism.

Also, I like Carter, I just don't see her as leadership material. Perhaps this is because I don't have a lot of respect for some her actions or command decisions in S8.


SueS

You don't see her as "leadership material" because the TPTB were too chicken to write Sam as a leader in season 8. They wrote season 8 still around RDA (the star so they say) in his General role, and they thought this was the last season (again), so they tied up loose ends to the series. They seemed to not have any intention of having Sam really lead any off-world adventures. It was very plausible that Sam would lead, based on her experience going through the stargate and her military experience, and alot of fans wanted to see Sam lead---she was the logical choice in season 8. AT wanted to see Sam lead---she mentioned it in a number of interviews. Yet they chose not to go this direction (maybe they don't know how to write female leaders). It was very disappointing to me (and alot of fans). This is the root of my frustration with this whole thing.

Then, lo and behold, they got renewed (again) for season 9. Oh gee, well we can't have a female lead the team on actual real live off-world adventures, (in fact we never really had any real intention of having Sam lead the team off-world for the entire episode in season 8! (even though we had done that in past seasons), so we better add a new male character to lead the team. Oh, and we better give him a good backstory so that everyone can see why he deserves to lead and let's make sure Sam knows him and there is no conflict between them. (and oh good we have an excuse to do this---AT went on maternity leave)


I like BB---I look forward to him in the show---I just want it to be believable about why he gets to lead---I want him to respect Carter (which I think he will)---I want there to be a really plausible reason why she joins the team, yet doesn't lead. I want Daniel and Teal'c to at least question why Mitchell should lead, and not Carter. It is possible that this happens. And like others have said, maybe there is some kind of co-lead situation that makes sense. Time will tell.

[binkpmmc]

But, this is not the first time a backstory has been written for a character who has never ONCE been mentioned before and it's not the first time we've been told to assume that someone at the SGC knows a previously unknown (to us) character. It's done all the time. Prior to Crystal Skull, we had no knowledge that Daniel had a grandfather. Prior to The Curse we had no idea that Daniel had a girlfriend named Sarah Gardner. In Forever And A Day, despite having never heard of the man, not only does Robert Rothman take over Daniel's position on SG-1 after he quits, but we also find out through his backstory that he and Daniel are friends. Secrets was the first time we heard about Sam's father Jacob. Don't you think it odd, that in all this time at the SGC, that she never once mentioned her father? And Covenant was the first time I had any idea that Sam Carter was friends with multi-millionaire Alec Coulson.

My problem, and my opinion, none of these characters has had a major story arc that I was supposed to buy because he or she was joining the show as a full-time main character. It makes no sense to me because they say this guy is such an integral part of the SGC and the story that he becomes leader but we never heard of him. Nick, Jacob, Sarah, Coulson, Rothman etc., all had minimal or recurring roles - not full-time, replacing one character as team leader, hero who saves the day roles.

So, if they had given permanent command to someone like Colonel Edwards (Enemy Mine) or Colonel Dixon (Heroes), and Sam had to be under their command when she returned, you wouldn't have a problem with that? (BTW, prior to these episodes, we had never heard of Edwards or Dixon?)

I would still not like it - my point is once again that I am supposed to believe that this guy, the hero, the new leader can jump right in and no other team leaders or experienced SG team members are available - I do not buy it, it adds to the implausibility of the whole thing, IMO.

It may be your opinion that Mitchell's backstory is forced and phony, but the fact is this is the backstory the character has been given, and personally, I have no problem with it.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I think it's forced and phony and once again a desperate plot device move on the part of TPTB at the expense of other characters so they get their ________ fans.

So, the fans who do buy and love Mitchell's backstory are lemmings? Isn't this another way of saying they are unintelligent? You know, I don't think I've read anything anywhere that suggests that the tptb think the fans are unintelligent because they've chosen to accept Mitchell's backstory or because they've chosen NOT to accept Mitchell's backstory. I have, however, read things that suggest tptb are aware that some fans are not happen with Mitchell and they are hoping that these fans will give Mitchell a chance.

Nope - not what I said. I believe that certain, not all, of TPTB and the suits BELIEVE that the fans are lemmings and should love whatever they throw at us - they give no credence to fans who have opinions that are critical of the show - they dismiss the fans who are critical - a certain PTB jumps to my mind immediately. It has recently been insinuated that I, as one who is skeptical of S9, am unintelligent because I do not embrace the changes or the new season - I would not turn around and do the same.

Hey, personally, I'd like to see a lot more PR devoted to Daniel (Michael Shanks), but Ben Browder is the new guy so of course they are going to promote him and I'm not going to deny him his moment in the sun simply because I like Daniel and would like to see a lot more of him.

Give Browder his time in the sun - but not at the expense of the other actors who have been with the show 7 and 8 years now, the ones who have helped hold the show together with their award-winning performances, the ones who have made the characters endearing and cared about so that the fans of the past 8 years have continued to watch.

As far as making SG1 seem like a hack show before Browder and Black came along, I haven't seen that. What I have seen is tptb and actors alike expressing excitement over what's ahead in S9, which is really no different than what they did at the beginning of S7 or S8.

I have said it before and I will say it again, IMO, TPTB doth try to hard - are they trying to convince me that it's great or themselves. The whole PR campaign focused almost exclusively on Browder and Black for months, my take on it - you have to watch now because look how much better it will be since we have Browder and black!! and oh yeah - we won't mention some of the other actors at all and we will elude to the fact that RDa made it so hard the past few years because of his schedule. I recall a certain cast member making the rather insulting comment to the effect of it was RDA and the three mooks, and we won't say anything nice about him and BTW we have never had sooo much fun, it's the best ever, yadda, yadda, yadda. This is my opinion on what I read and my interpretation of what I read, you are certainly entitled to your opinion on what you have read and your interpretation of the same exact statements.

I have compared the overload of Browder PR to when they play a top 10 song on the radio over and over and over and over again and again and again and again. After a while you just shut it off . . . . I would love to see one article or interview wherein one of TPTB does not mention Browder except to say it is great he is with them - he is great to have. I have heard too my times how super he is and how hard he works and it sounds as if all of TPTB have a crush on the guy, if I was him I'd be scared of them at this point - they are like gushing little school girls who have a new boyfriend - that is the impression TPTB give me with their singularity.

But we haven't seen S9 yet, so how do you know they are going to completely and totally ignore the FACT that Carter was the leader of SG-1 in S8?And here I thought all the hoopla on this thread was because Mitchell was replacing Carter as the leader of SG-1.

BTW, this is what Ben Browder said in the latest Stargate magazine (July/Aug) regarding his replacing RDA.

Although Browder is joining Stargate SG-1 in the same season that Richard Dean Anderson is bowing out as a series regular, he is quick to dismiss the idea that he has been brought in to emulate Anderson's work as Jack O'Neill. "I don't think you can replace someone like him and I certainly haven't taken it upon myself to replace him," he states firmly. "I don't think the producers or the audience want me to replace Richard Dean Anderson. And on a day-to-day basis, Richard was a producer on the show, his name was above the title, - and I'm not doing that."

"I'm stepping into the show as a member of SG-1, not stepping into the show as Richard Dean Anderson, Jr."

I did not say they will ignore it in season 9 (which, now that you mention it, I am sure they will) and I did not say that it was Browder saying he was. The focus of my post is on TPTB and the suits and expresses my opinion and take on how they have handled, very poorly IMO, the PR for S9 and changes that are occuring. It is TPTB and the suits that have totally ignored the FACT that Carter was leader of SG1 last season in their zealous PR campaign. cooper said it, sci-fi's website says it, numerous news stories and articles have said it - Browder was brought in to fill RDa's shoes as team leader, mitchell is replacing O'neill as leader of SG1, etc., etc., etc. That is why I said it is all a PR ploy - replace the old leading MAN with the new leading MAN because, God forbid, we cannot have a leading woman and that it was a neat trick - how RDA played both the leader of SG1 and the leader of SGC at the same time and now we have Browder replacing the SG1 leader and Bridges replacing the SGC leader. It is quite amazing how they need 2 people to fill the 2 roles that 1 person, RDA, was apparently playing.

Finally, this is more of a curiosity on my part, but is there any reason why you write Ben Browder, Mitchell or (Claudia) Black in lower-case? I notice you don't do it with anyone else's name, so I figure there must be a reason you do it with their names.

good catch - nope.

Finally, as I said numerous times in my first post and in this post - all of this is my opinion. The focus of my post, in relation to why carter is not the leader IF htye go that way, is on the decisionmaking by TPTB and the suits and thier PR campaign and their poor handling of the PR and the changes especially when it comes to the fans of the past 8 years, the very same fans who are the reason for the ninth season in the first place - TPTB have said it many times, without the ratings there would be no season 8 and there would be no season 9. There would be no ratings without the fans so the cavalier attitude of some of tptb towards the fans who have kept them afloat for the past 8 years is insulting and annoying. You all may have differing opinions - I will not engage in defending my opinions any further. I will return to post if and when TPTB prove me wrong and as I said - I do not expect to be posting here again anytime soon.

Have a good evening.

[SueS]

[QUOTE=Originally Posted by Lightsabre]Sam is a seasoned pilot. Daniel helped plan and execute a guerilla war. I think they are both qualified Sam does have training, but there are LAWS against her serving in an infantry unit. Do you understand that???

No. I don't understand it. I've never understood it. I've never heard of it before, and I don't think I've heard or read of anyone else making these claims. Do you mind citing this information, please? THEN I'd probably understand.

Army Regulation 600-13 -- Army Policy For The Assignment Of Female Soldiers


AR 600-13


Section III

Policy

1–12. Overall policy for the female soldier

a . The Army's assignment policy for female soliders allows women to serve in any officer or enlisted specialty or position except in those specialties, positions, or units (battalion size or smaller) which are assigned a routine mission to engage in direct combat, or which collocate routinely with units assigned a direct combat mission.


SueS

[Lightsabre]

oh and BTW he's too big to put in a secondary role to a WOMAN (God forbid) so let's make up a phony story that the lemmings will all buy and love (and if they don't they are unintelligent, useless fans that we don't care about because we don't need them anyway - we have our nice new shiny toy and our nice new Farscape fans).

WHy exactly is it that all of your arguments come down to the fact that Carter is a woman?
I think it's really unfair to say BB has a problem being in a secondary role to a woman.
There is absoloutly NOTHING to say that Carter loses command cause she's a woman. You are the only one bringing gender into it.
As to us fans being lemmings, useless or unintelligent, am I to assume it's just those of us who think Mitchell's backstory works, or are you including yourself in that lovely little display??

[chocdoc]

[QUOTE=SueS]

Sam is a seasoned pilot. Daniel helped plan and execute a guerilla war. I think they are both qualified Sam does have training, but there are LAWS against her serving in an infantry unit. Do you understand that???




Army Regulation 600-13 -- Army Policy For The Assignment Of Female Soldiers


AR 600-13


Section III

Policy

1–12. Overall policy for the female soldier

a . The Army's assignment policy for female soliders allows women to serve in any officer or enlisted specialty or position except in those specialties, positions, or units (battalion size or smaller) which are assigned a routine mission to engage in direct combat, or which collocate routinely with units assigned a direct combat mission.


SueS

I'm not sure what you point is? Was Sam not suppose to lead the combat mission in Icon, then?

And if the show were sticking to this completely, then they should have never made her leader of SG-1 in the first place. Bring in another male military officer in season 8 to lead the team, and be very clear that a woman cannot by Air Force policy lead a unit on a combat mission.

[sg-1fanintn]

Well, I am going to respond to all of that in a "did not read that fasion" But will commit in an "in your window."


In my opinion I think that BB character should not et the position he is getting because he as never even stepped through the gate. It should go to the next in line. Like the leader of SG-2,3,4,5,6,7,. Their is alot of people qualified that can take the job if Carter doesn't resume it.

We have never even seen Carter realy command the team. So we can't realy say she can't do it.

Joint command happens allot in real life. The US does military excersies all the time with alot of countries. Are comander doesn't command the other country. They do. But we all work as one. That makes it a joint command.

Exactly. If you haven't been through the gate, how can you be ready? I think he definitely has the potential, given what little we know about him at this point. I just think making him the commander is a little premature now, especially since he tells Jack, "I want to learn from the best."

[binkpmmc]

WHy exactly is it that all of your arguments come down to the fact that Carter is a woman?
I think it's really unfair to say BB has a problem being in a secondary role to a woman.
There is absoloutly NOTHING to say that Carter loses command cause she's a woman. You are the only one bringing gender into it.
As to us fans being lemmings, useless or unintelligent, am I to assume it's just those of us who think Mitchell's backstory works, or are you including yourself in that lovely little display??

Okay last time posting here because I feel this needs rebuttal.

First of all - all of my opinions do not come to down to Carter being a woman - read all of my posts and do not make generalities please.

Read my post - I never said BB has a problem being a secondary role to a woman - I said TPTB and the suits will not allow a woman to be the lead of the show God forbid - they have to have the big, brawny man in charge - I never said anything of the sort about BB - do not put words in my mouth.

As to my being the only one to bring gender into - I can probably go back and find many posts where people mention Carter being a woman and many where you yourself take on many of those posters for deigning to mention the fact that Carter is a female and your interpreting those posts as arguments based solely on gender - IMO, that is not the case with most of the posts you make that argument against. My post does express my opinion that, in the context of TPTB and the suits decisionmaking process, they do not want a woman as the lead ergo they have a PR campaign focused on the new leading MAN and misinforming people that Mitchell is replacing the old leading MAN as the leader of the team. This is outright false - but they are playing up the male lead aspect of it at the expense of the female lead. My interpretation of the PR campaign and the decisons the suits and TPTB have made to make Browder the leading man and team leader (if they do leave him as team leader) is that it is gender based, unfortunately it has nothing to do with whether Carter is fit to commad or capable of command because the decison to bring in a MALE lead is purely based on the suits and TPTB irrational fear of leaving a woman in the leader role, IMO.)

As to the lemmings comment - read my answer to SueS and yes, I am including myself in the useless and unintelligent group because that is how I interpret the comments by many of TPTB and their disdain towards those fans who have criticisms (valid criticisms) of the show and their dismissal of fans who will not embrace and love all things Stargate, including the changes for S9. The lemmings comment is responded to in my post to SueS.

Before attacking my opinions please read my posts and do not be combative - I am tired of your antagonizing approach to this.

[Sum1]

Exactly. If you haven't been through the gate, how can you be ready? I think he definitely has the potential, given what little we know about him at this point. I just think making him the commander is a little premature now, especially since he tells Jack, "I want to learn from the best."

Is Ferretti still around, because it seems to me like he should be next in line for the flagship team - he's been going through the gate longer than anyone except Jack and Daniel.

[Lightsabre]

Okay last time posting here because I feel this needs rebuttal.

First of all - all of my opinions do not come to down to Carter being a woman - read all of my posts and do not make generalities please.

REad mine. I said arguments, not opinions

Read my post - I never said BB has a problem being a secondary role to a woman - I said TPTB and the suits will not allow a woman to be the lead of the show God forbid - they have to have the big, brawny man in charge - I never said anything of the sort about BB - do not put words in my mouth.

I may have misunderstood, but it seemed to me you were implying BB wouldn't/couldn't play second fiddle to a woman.

As to my being the only one to bring gender into - I can probably go back and find many posts where people mention Carter being a woman and many where you yourself take on many of those posters for deigning to mention the fact that Carter is a female and your interpreting those posts as arguments based solely on gender - IMO, that is not the case with most of the posts you make that argument against.

You are the only one consistently mentioning that fact currently.
Others have mentioned it, but it's a 38+ page thread.
I'm sorry, but the last of what you have written doesn't make sense to me.

My post does express my opinion that, in the context of TPTB and the suits decisionmaking process, they do not want a woman as the lead ergo they have a PR campaign focused on the new leading MAN and misinforming people that Mitchell is replacing the old leading MAN as the leader of the team. This is outright false - but they are playing up the male lead aspect of it at the expense of the female lead.

Yeah, that's it. It's not like they want to promote this new lead actor they've hired, they are just making sure everyone knows a guy is in charge again.

My interpretation of the PR campaign and the decisons the suits and TPTB have made to make Browder the leading man and team leader (if they do leave him as team leader) is that it is gender based, unfortunately it has nothing to do with whether Carter is fit to commad or capable of command because the decison to bring in a MALE lead is purely based on the suits and TPTB irrational fear of leaving a woman in the leader role, IMO.)

Hmm, now they are scared of having a woman leader.
[sarcasm] Good thing too, or those uppirty women folk will want the vote next.[/sarcasm].
I highly , highly doubt TPTB are afraid of showing compentent women.

As to the lemmings comment - read my answer to SueS and yes, I am including myself in the useless and unintelligent group because that is how I interpret the comments by many of TPTB and their disdain towards those fans who have criticisms (valid criticisms) of the show and their dismissal of fans who will not embrace and love all things Stargate, including the changes for S9. The lemmings comment is responded to in my post to SueS.

Yup read it.

Before attacking my opinions please read my posts and do not be combative - I am tired of your antagonizing approach to this.

Whereas calling us all stupid, uninformed lemmings was sweetness and light.
I did not attack your opijnions, I attacked your arguments. I am not trying to fight with anyone, but I give as good as I get, if you think I am attacking you, maybe you should read your own stuff and see where I might be feeling attacked and responding???
Cuase quite frankly, I'm tired of the blanket sexist label you throw over everyone who doesn't agree with you.
Carter isn't leading the team, so the men are afraid of a woman.
IT couldn't possibly have anything to do with RDA's leaving, or AT's new baby. Nope, it's cause she's a woman.
If it was Claudia Black taking over instead of Ben Browder, would you be arguing this?? or even care??

[the dancer of spaz]

I'm not sure what you point is? Was Sam not suppose to lead the combat mission in Icon, then?

And if the show were sticking to this completely, then they should have never made her leader of SG-1 in the first place. Bring in another male military officer in season 8 to lead the team, and be very clear that a woman cannot by Air Force policy lead a unit on a combat mission.

Exactly. Actually, this should have been nipped in the bud in season one. What SG-1 does is infantry work, is it not? So why bother having a WOMAN in the MILITARY doing INFANTRY work? I'd say SG-1 pretty "routinely" engaged armed jaffa and aliens.

I say this because Lightsabre seems to question the continuous mentioning of "women," but here's the problem:

Before the series started, when they were developing the series, they knew that they needed a certain... how should I say it? Ah yes, variety of people. That's why, since Jack and Daniel were already established in the movie, they had to come up with the nuclear combination that consisted of ONE racial minority and ONE woman.

We all know WHY they did this: So they could show ALL kinds of lovely people working together towards a common goal. In other words, they did this so women, racial minorities, and of course members of both (like yours truly) would be able to watch the show without wondering why a "brotha" or a "strong, competent woman" was nowhere to be found. This is basic, Media 101. I'm not teaching you anything new, I'm sure.

Where was I going with this? Ah yes. So, in an effort to create a diversity of characters, TPTB (apparently) willingly went against these regs Sue posted. I'd imagine that at that time, characters like Scully and Buffy were kicking butt and taking names, and the boys (and girls) at MGM figured that they needed to keep up with the times. Enter Sam Carter. Though in REAL LIFE, she wouldn't be on this team (according to the posted regulations), they put her there anyway.

Then, as if that's not bad enough, they promote her. Twice. Once back in S3 was good enough right? At least she wasn't the leader! She was still holding a position that involved the assignment of "a routine mission to engage in direct combat," but at least she wasn't the leader. However, in S8 the unthinkable and unforeseen occurred: Sam was given the opportunity to become leader of this unit.

If I'm not being blunt enough, here it is: Sam was created for the market of WOMEN. Sam was created for the market of MINORITIES of all different kinds. Sam evolved into something more as characters are apt to do, and as these regulations state, this fictitious character was apparently created with the real life knowledge that a woman wouldn't be given the opportunity to do what Sam did and does. But they created her anyway. They knew that the viewers wouldn't understand why a woman wasn't an integral part of the show. The viewers wouldn't understand why they didn't show at least ONE woman in the military. They knew that viewers would be turned off by this obvious and blatant display of "male chauvinism."

Perhaps the Air Force consultants even let such an evident biggie slide because they would like nothing more than for a popular, cult hit like Stargate to paint them in a good - albeit fantastically unrealistic - light. If they had taken their hand out of THIS particular cookie jar, the Air Force could have been painted anyway TPTB liked, and it might not have been pretty.

By the end of S8 it was clear that what could have been an interesting dismissal of the current real life regulations turned out to be a build up for a female character - a tease, if you will, for uneducated viewers - only for the potential of a true leadership role to never fully come into fruition.

Lightsabre, there will always be issues with gender. Not necessarily because of your particular opinion, not necessarily because of Ben Browder's involvement in this series or TPTB decisions, but because of the world (and, let's face it, the country) in which we live. Tough. We deal with it. We move on. But please don't assume that our concerns regarding this subject are half-a**ed in any respect. As my dad once told me, every nanosecond of air time is broadcast for a reason, used at the discretion and complete disposal of the producers, the owners and presidents, and the shareholders of that network.

No decision - especially one as socially touchy as a female-male command structure - is ever, or WILL ever be, made lightly. Nothing's that clear cut or black and white.