Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[puddlejumperOZ]

^^^ That sounds doable.

Now I'm thinking, the planets we colonise, will they specifically be ones that have gates? Would it not be feasable to have planets scouted without gates. We have an excess of unsused ones for Midway station now.

[Princess Awinita]

NOTE this info I have is also taking into account total inner ring size of the basic stargate (which I'm assuming as 7.5-8 meters, or there abouts).

Gunship General Information
Ship Type: Troop transport/hyperspace capible dropship
Length: 12.82 meters
Width 7.62 meters ("wings" folded, 8.82 meters "wings" open)
Hight: 5 meters

Weapons; 50mm machinegun mounts under the cockpit area, along with missle launcher locations located on the undercarrage of the ship. the gunship (currently known as Project 210 (yes i'm numbering my projects!)) has a pair of landing struts and can carry a six person team without worry of danger or over crowding. The ship is equiped with a hyperdrive engine, though small and only usible for short jumps. (seven LY maximum before hyperdrive cooldown)

Dual axis ductfans are used for in planet atmosphere travel, twin ipon engines provide the needed thrust for space useage. with the dual axis duct fan design for the rotors Project 210 can gain up to 108 MPH/KPH in air on average planets with average gravity ratings. however more industrilzed planets require slower speeds. average space speed is more or less driven by the twin ion engines that put forth a thrust speed of 458 MPH/KPH before going tp hyperspace. the rotorsx are powered by standard rotor type motors that propel both duct fan propellers (with two sets of three propeller blades each for a total fo for actual propellers of three blades each). However given the timeframe we're starting in (I'm assuming 2025) the advanced technology of the rotors blades, motors and all, would be advanced beyond now.

[puddlejumperOZ]

Now there is an idea. I remember a Swarzenger movie that had these small Helicopters with folding rotor blades and jet nozzles for forward propulsion, maybe you could improve on that.

[Princess Awinita]

Now there is an idea. I remember a Swarzenger movie that had these small Helicopters with folding rotor blades and jet nozzles for forward propulsion, maybe you could improve on that.

It is kind of what I'm going after yeah, but more similar to the small four/ten man fighter/transport used in Avatar (the ship flown by Trudy), though that is actually just the base appearance. The actual ship I have in mind only looks like a Scorpion Gunship, only project 210 is far different, heck I used it in a game once, was told it looks more like a LAAT/c from starwars! So the actual design is old, by about two years actually.

[puddlejumperOZ]

Avatar, now there is some great tech. How about the armoured suit guys, possible do you think?

[Princess Awinita]

Avatar, now there is some great tech. How about the armoured suit guys, possible do you think?

*camn see a SG team being dubbed "SGsuits" or the like*

But yes, Project 210 looks similar to the Scorpion gunship. Though with many modifications and such, like the added protection of energy systems to hold in air supply when traveling through hyperspace, or space for instance. otherwise only the cockpit would have any type of breathable air. anyhow, I have some revisions ot make qwhat is already posted up, I had the measurements wrong

[colbmista]

i like the asgard body armor

[puddlejumperOZ]

i like the asgard body armor

That's an idea as well, perhaps you could do your own take on it, an SGC version.

[bezza]

seriously. what are we fighting? who? well i tell you. right now, there's some LA factions left, there's some stirring with the jaffa, there are some radicals left, and that's it. everything can be crushed by a few 304's. adding a battleship will allow for more efficient crushing of radicals who acquired some fancy goauld or ori tech. aside from that, a 304 will have many tasks due to it being a formidable craft to be versatile. the new BC will allow better integration of the technology and will probably be more powerful. it'll take on the multi-combat role, while the 304s are on standby for orbital defence, recon, and general law enforcement.


what do destroyers do? what do they fight? they either face a mothership they can't possibly defeat, or they face a ship that the F-302 can already blow out of the sky.

what do cruisers do? what do they fight? they either face a mothership they can't possibly defeat or they commit overkill on fighters.

what do carriers do? carry an extensive fighter fleet? to fight what? death gliders are so pathetic that CIWS combined with a regular wing of F-302's can easily defeat them. besides it does nothing to the fact that whatever ship attacked can blow up the enemy mothership regardless. tel'tak? al'kesh? both still horribly vulnerable to our missiles.




a Fighter, preferably Gate Capable, multi-role, carries AA missiles, and can carry 1 anti-capital nuke. dedicated space fighter, unlike the F-302 which is a multi-role planetary fighter.

a Gunship. carries big missile pods filled with multi-role missiles (both ATG and ATA) and can carry up to 4 nuclear missiles. 2-3x as big as a helicopter, carries a short-ranged hyperdrive, advanced sensor pods, and a "Machine INTAR" under it's cockpit for easy surpressing fire. multi-role, from blowing up a wing of deathgliders in one swift move, to nuking a mothership, to short-ranged recon, and SG-team support and extraction. carries both Atmospheric and Space engines, VTOL, has a pilot, copilot and a gunner.

BC-305. (assuming we still go with 304=350m) 400m Battlecruiser. has two hangar bays, carries 2x 10 F-302's and has 2-4 gunships. has energy weapons, powerful shields, only 10 missile silos, and relies more on energy weapons to do damage. railguns are only present in the form of CIWS. an additional reactor onboard powers the energy weapons. made 100% of Generation IV technology

BB-306. advanced, powerful battleship with just 1 purpose: destroy motherships. after the Goauld Defeat, many Ha'tak vessels were left in the void. nowadays many warlords, and planets have at least one. terrorists and extremists have them. the Lucian Alliance have them. and radical Jaffa have them. though the 304 can bring them down, this is often not without an intense battle. the 306 has one purpose: make that battle easy. it has powerful batteries of energy weapons and has fully sacrificed missile silos for more reactors. by far the most expensive ship of the Human Fleet, the BB-306 is worth every penny in combat. it's not allowed anywhere without a BC covering it's tail for it's only real weakness: nuclear-armed fighters. anything else is easily overcome

hey guys
unfortunately this is my 3rd accouynt on gateworld coz the other two cacked themselves. anyway on killmans message its probably too late to do it but i will anyway - killman is right about the ships needed for the new fleet. u dont need to have a fleet that has 30 million different types of ships in it. u only need a couple and he is also right about the fighting going on.

well anyway just thought id drop in

[thekillman]

Killman you are spot on with the specs above and you can use my three (well four if you want to make the F307-F100) ships.
BB310 Dreadnaught Class Battleship approx 800 mtr length, but you can fiddle with that if you like.
CE/CG340 Heroine Class Cruiser Escort/ Cruiser Gunship 135mtr length
AC401 Attack Craft/Drop ship
F307-F100 Improved F302

you can enter them on voting, thank you.

I have said this before only big counties could build big ships in large numbers of destroyers and frigates would be the majority of ships and the most important because they tick all the boxes if you want a frigate could carry 2 small troopships that could do all the jobs of your gunship and a destroyer is meant to do exactly what it is labelled if you are small country what would you have lots of gun ship that would just get obliterated or 4-5 frigates and destroyers that are fast and strong and can fill a number of jobs I no witch I would rather have

our Deadalus is a rowboat compared to some of the stuff out there. also i think some sort of GATO would act on behalf of the People of Earth, not individual nations.

Guppy I think how it will go down is like this:
Even for the larger nations such as the US, Russia, Germany, The UK and China; building large ships or a fleet of any kind would be costly. We are in fact looking at a Earth fleet, financed by all nations, well all that would participate anyway. And as for Frigates and Destroyers, they are perfectly fine in a sea based environment, but honestly they would be a waste of resources for space. We have an alloctaion for a multi-role Cruiser, which would serve all three roles.

1: thank you
2: yes and it's called the Deadalus.

Speaking of ships and teams, i know Team SGA-1 (at least from the looks of things) have their own dropship (a jumper)

All of a sudden I want to make a small dropship/gunship tyoe of craft, BUT i'm thinknig it to be land worthy and also spaceworthy. If you guys can give me some time before class I think I can make such a craft, maybe

considering the current pace it'll take some time before we go launch the actual fleet. before that i want the worms in the can dead and buried.

second, i'm talking a gunship, which can take a few people onboard so it acts as an extraction craft. double handy since it's missiles and machinegun can already provide surpressing fire and it can also blow up a platoon of soldiers in a single blow. so a gunship with dropship capabilities, not the other way around.

Now I'm thinking, the planets we colonise, will they specifically be ones that have gates? Would it not be feasable to have planets scouted without gates. We have an excess of unsused ones for Midway station now.

they will most likely be either Off-the-grid planets ( gateless habitable planets) or ancient adress planets, AKA unknown to the goauld and people who got knowledge from them. preferably never-before-inhabited ones, so there's plenty of resources easily accessible.

Avatar, now there is some great tech. How about the armoured suit guys, possible do you think?

possible, yes. but i think nations prefer cheaper an more expendable and greater numbers

hey guys
unfortunately this is my 3rd accouynt on gateworld coz the other two cacked themselves. anyway on killmans message its probably too late to do it but i will anyway - killman is right about the ships needed for the new fleet. u dont need to have a fleet that has 30 million different types of ships in it. u only need a couple and he is also right about the fighting going on.

well anyway just thought id drop in

thank you.

[Princess Awinita]

considering the current pace it'll take some time before we go launch the actual fleet. before that i want the worms in the can dead and buried.

second, i'm talking a gunship, which can take a few people onboard so it acts as an extraction craft. double handy since it's missiles and machinegun can already provide surpressing fire and it can also blow up a platoon of soldiers in a single blow. so a gunship with dropship capabilities, not the other way around.

possible, yes. but i think nations prefer cheaper an more expendable and greater numbers

1: Don't follow with you on that line, what exactly do you mean by "dead and buried?"
2: We are thinknig along the same lines, however slightly different, my thought of a gunship (for a pure example, the SCorpion Gunship used in Avatar) can be used as you say, sometimes when people mention gunships I think the Clone Wars LAAT/i ot LAAT/c gunships/transports, which can go in space, transport troops and goods, etc.

In my case however the gunship, known to all now as Prject 210, is similar in apeparance to the SCorpion gunship seen in Avatar, but not the exact thing. Sure it looks liek a Scorpion, but it isn't. total troops it can carry varies on its cargo transport during missions. iot has gate support/travel ablity because its "wings" (the dualaxis duct-fan propellers) fold flat allowing transport through a stargate,. they are space capible as well. But in avatar they weren't. Sadly I'm not on my personal machine that I am still borrowing as i'm at my older brothers place on his laptop, so I can't actually access the revised notes on the craft as yet, however I'll be able to later tomrrow.

3: AMP suits sound liek a good idea since they're airtight sealed, possible for space use maybe? just a thought, maybe put magnetic clamps on the feet to attach to enemy ships....

[bradly08]

also the Missile Cruiser i'm suggesting would be able to deploy many GT's of firepower against virtually anything.

GT's of Power? thats way to uber, espicially when we are talking about Ha'tak shields being in the MT range. That is my biggest fear for this new fleet. we make it uber without noticing it until we start writing stories. I want this to be realisitic but enjoyable.

space is not an ocean. also maneuverability is laughable when you look at the ROF of certain ships and the rate of engine failure and systems failure.

I disagree. Maneuverability is an important thing in space. Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. And it doesn't matter how fast your plasma shot or whatever you use travels, if you enemy can avoid it then he has the advantage. A frigate would be smaller (or roughly the same) as a 304 and so it would be a smaller target. combine that with a maneuverable ship and you got a very effective ship. Several of them would be able to take down any rouge Ha'tak.

If you have a member of the LA being attacked by several ships which he can't hit, thats going to a affect him big time and it would be matter of time before he makes a mistake and you then take advantage of it.

once we had very big gallions. then -among others- the dutch used small boats with guns, which the gallions couldn't hit with their oversized cannons. then someone thought "how about smaller ships than our capital ships, designed to take out the even smaller ships that attack us"

however our enemies have a big gap in their ships and roles. if we fill that we go overkill the small ships and underkill the big ones. a frigate would have no use: it's overkill against tel'tak, al'kesh and deathgliders, and underkill against capital ships.

Thats exactlly why we should build smaller. The majority of ships out there are Ha'taks or al'kesh. smaller ships would open up a whole can of worms for the enemy. Yes a single Frigate may not be able to take out a Ha'tak, but in a group it can. Bigger ships are bigger targets and cost far more.

What we need to do is think smarter and think of ways to deal with the enemy while reducing costs. The Galaxy has been used to the same tactics for thousands of years, this is somthing we should be taking advantage of. One example would be to attack a ship(s) over vast distances instead of right up in their face. Bigger ships would be needed to deal with fleets and other threats but the galaxy is in a more peacefull state now. the biggest threat arn't fleets but rouge ships that can easly be dealt with smaller ships, while bigger ships, in your own words; is over kill.

this is space. shields prevent smaller weapons from significant damage, and something like a ha'tak will always hit the enemy regardless of speed and vector. it simply fires too many bolts too fast

yes shields mean that weak spots are harder to hit, but it doesnt matter how fast your enemies ROF is, If they can't hit you then they are in a real difficult situation. The problem with the Stargate series is that the portrayed battles over planets, were it should be taking over vast distances. This again is one of the old tactics used by the enemy which we can take advantage of.

you would need to waste immense amounts of energy on quick enough maneuvering. energy used to strenghten your shields

that only works if your fighting close up to the enemy. If your fighting over vast distances then your not going to get hit by the enemy as much. If you can Avoid those hits then your shields dont need to be as strong is you were close up.

In conclusion, The main thing we need to do when coming up with ships is not to think bigger, but smarter. If you can create ships that are harder to hit then you have the advantage in a fight. While yes we will still need Battleships and all those ships, we shouldn't concentrate on that. Im not talking about the massive amounts of different ships we see today in Navies, but some variarity can be very usefull thing.

[thekillman]

1: Don't follow with you on that line, what exactly do you mean by "dead and buried?"

the problems should be solved and sorted.

GT's of Power? thats way to uber, espicially when we are talking about Ha'tak shields being in the MT range. That is my biggest fear for this new fleet. we make it uber without noticing it until we start writing stories. I want this to be realisitic but enjoyable.

the only differrence is, is that the Missile Cruiser carries god knows how many nukes. powerful ones. also, once those missiles are expended, it would have to fall back to ordinary energy guns. which translates to: it'll flee.

it can bring GT's to bear on the enemy in minutes. but a ha'tak can unleash that too, simply over a much longer timeframe. the purpose of the Missile Cruiser is simply to cheat weaponsfire rules by using nukes. even though half it's firepower is wasted due to low nuke efficiency. it can do what the Deadalus did in No Mans land, except -according to my estimates- only twice, but the missile barrage would be significantly bigger.

also when firing so many nukes, the problem arises that you start damaging the other missiles. so the effective firepower is much lower than that.


still even in 3.0 i calculated firepower two ways: firepower/second of the guns and the single-use firepower of nukes. in this case, the Missile Cruiser has an insanely high single-use firepower, and a very low DPS on the guns.

I disagree. Maneuverability is an important thing in space. Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. And it doesn't matter how fast your plasma shot or whatever you use travels, if you enemy can avoid it then he has the advantage.

except in stargate, long-range evasive battles won't work because neither side will ever hit the enemy. the weapons are not fast enough.

why do you think the goauld show up next to eachoter and exchange bolts? the other way would take WEEKS to fight a battle, because should you hit your enemy, by the time the next shot hits, the enemy shields are already recharged.

stargate warfare doesn't work on long range. longer ranges, yes, but considering the size of the ships we're talking, a lot of power is needed for maneuvering, power that can be used for guns.

[thekillman]

A frigate would be smaller (or roughly the same) as a 304 and so it would be a smaller target. combine that with a maneuverable ship and you got a very effective ship. Several of them would be able to take down any rouge Ha'tak.

well your last sentence sums up my problem: a single 304 can take on a single ha'tak. it is comparatively small, but due to naquahdriah power, it's also strong. a frigate would require relatively more crew, more resources and use up more energy while having less firepower and less shield power. and the 304 is already damn maneuverable... if the one piloting actually maneuvers, that is.

If you have a member of the LA being attacked by several ships which he can't hit, thats going to a affect him big time and it would be matter of time before he makes a mistake and you then take advantage of it.

and the guy sits back and relaxes, or worse, simply kicks in the hyperdrive, as those ships can barely hurt him. also ha'tak can maneuver fast as well, if the pilot actually moves the ship.

Thats exactlly why we should build smaller. The majority of ships out there are Ha'taks or al'kesh. smaller ships would open up a whole can of worms for the enemy. Yes a single Frigate may not be able to take out a Ha'tak, but in a group it can. Bigger ships are bigger targets and cost far more.

for us, you mean. because hey, those bolts can hurt smaller ships far more than they can hurt the deadalus.

What we need to do is think smarter and think of ways to deal with the enemy while reducing costs. The Galaxy has been used to the same tactics for thousands of years, this is somthing we should be taking advantage of.

except that the LA of SGU -according to our lovely Mckoy that's canon- have grown brains, and don't use such tactics. in fact, i think that after some 25 years pretty much the entire galaxy has seen the light.

One example would be to attack a ship(s) over vast distances instead of right up in their face

and then the enemy moves just a little bit to the side and evades the weaponsfire.

Bigger ships would be needed to deal with fleets and other threats but the galaxy is in a more peacefull state now. the biggest threat arn't fleets but rouge ships that can easly be dealt with smaller ships, while bigger ships, in your own words; is over kill.

how much bigger do you think i want my ships? a 304 is IMO the lower limit of what we can use. it's peashooters couldn't even hurt a ha'tak before. energy guns perhaps, but i doubt we can build such technology that fast, considering that in all those years of stargate, energy guns were the hardest to reverse engineer.

a frigate simply can not produce the power required to kill a ha'tak.

yes shields mean that weak spots are harder to hit, but it doesnt matter how fast your enemies ROF is, If they can't hit you then they are in a real difficult situation. The problem with the Stargate series is that the portrayed battles over planets, were it should be taking over vast distances. This again is one of the old tactics used by the enemy which we can take advantage of.

except that the enemy with high ROF can aim in multiple directions, forcing you to evade even more, ****ing up your accuracy and forcing you to be flawless in maneuvering otherwise a bolt slams into the shields.

a ha'tak has the ROF to capture your ship in a field of plasma bolts.

The problem with the Stargate series is that the portrayed battles over planets, were it should be taking over vast distances. This again is one of the old tactics used by the enemy which we can take advantage of.

your tactics won't work because the speed of the energy bolts isn't high enough.

that only works if your fighting close up to the enemy. If your fighting over vast distances then your not going to get hit by the enemy as much. If you can Avoid those hits then your shields dont need to be as strong is you were close up.

then half the crew falls asleep as the battle would take days. then someone becomes smart, opens a hyperspace window behind you and the reinforcements drop out and **** your ship.

In conclusion, The main thing we need to do when coming up with ships is not to think bigger, but smarter. If you can create ships that are harder to hit then you have the advantage in a fight.

maneuvering reduces accuracy.

While yes we will still need Battleships and all those ships, we shouldn't concentrate on that.

with a battleship we can end a fight within a few minutes. with the frigates we need a shedule and a personal assistant to plan our battes. "conquer that planet. there's a 10 ha'tak fleet. we need monday... tuesday, and reserve wednesday and thursday for if reinforcements show up. friday is the deadline"

[Crazy Tom]

I think there's some confusion over what the gunship actually is. First, the issue of endurance. Traditionally, this one's big in the navy, but in SG, where the galaxy is lined together by a vastly unsecured SG network, and hyperdrives can cross it in weeks, you can easily take a half an hour out of your patrol to stop at the nearest stargate and receive supplies and equipment and ammunition.

Thus, a ship can be relatively unconstrained by the requirement for on-board reloads, allowing more space to be devoted to enhancing capabilities without sacrificing endurance.

On the issue of maneuverability, a ship's maneuverability seems to be defined more by the ratio of it's drive drive power to inertial dampener power. A ship that can mount bigger inertial dampeners, for only a small increase in mass, can outmaneuver something like a fighter, or at least keep it close enough in terms of specific impulse to make the bigger, longer ranged weapons that it carrier more effective than the fighter's.

Now, range is not as important in SG as in other space settings, since you cant' stop the enemy from jumping in closer to you to bring their weapons to bear, it seems more prudent to invest in making your weapons more powerful, unless you can somehow stop the enemy jumping, or deter him.
But if we're being realistic, your right on the frigate now that I think about it. those gunships cant do everything, so yeas, a frigate should be, in fact, they should be supporting each other, the gunships soften up the enemy before the frigate closes for the kill.

I'm not trying to sell the gunship, as a answer to all our problems, but it's a small, modular platforms that can be used for many roles and thus mass produced. They would handle the SG team extraction, they would scout systems, soften up the enemy with nuke salvos before the main force engages, etc. In short, they would likely be the most visible signature of Earth's presence in the galaxy.

Forking out on smaller vessels that cannot have any effect in anything smaller than a fleet is a waste of resources particularly where there is no wide-scale engagement across the galaxy. The frigate offers you anti capitol ship, proper fleet support, combat persistence, independent deep striking and surveillance for long periods, patrol ability, planetary bombardment, anti-fighter specialization, ground force deployment and support, high speed response with a strong weapon platform over very long distances, peacekeeping ability, hit run attacks, hunter-killer missions, escort (military and dignitary) etc. etc. Why commit a larger expensive 304 to such tasks when you have a faster, cheaper ship that can do it with a smaller crew over virtually any timescale. You simply can't do these things with a gunship. Omitting the frigate class from a fleet makes no sense to me, since virtually no one has been foolish enough to do that in over 100 years of our history, and tactics have only gotten better.

Point very well made.

I don't take a variant to be a one off platform, but rather a platform that keeps getting parts updated, with the intention that all parts upgrade are to fulfill a particular fleet role, hence defining the ship's designation. Considering how small the variation is in these classes, if you were looking at economic motivation, variants are far cheaper than specialized designs.

So modularity? And an easily modified design? I sense a place for kiron legos here...

the aschen are *from the looks of it* a more scientifically and rationally minded people. they turned their allies to farm worlds because they can, it gave them plenty of land for plenty of food. besides seeing their level of advancement, they probably are more like our "dark side". need space? cut down a forest. except for them it's more of a "need space? conquer a planet "

Your right, we probably just never saw their colonized planets.

nothing can compete with the cost efficiency of a stargate. also gravity can easily be used to dump immense amounts of supplies through. i doubt we are going to need a cargo ship. maybe it's gonna be a company design. the military seems to use 304's for transport as well. given their humongous fighter bays, that's not a bad move.

Good points, but some equipment is simply too large to be shipped through a Stargate.

NOTE this info I have is also taking into account total inner ring size of the basic stargate (which I'm assuming as 7.5-8 meters, or there abouts).

Gunship General Information
Ship Type: Troop transport/hyperspace capible dropship
Length: 12.82 meters
Width 7.62 meters ("wings" folded, 8.82 meters "wings" open)
Hight: 5 meters

Weapons; 50mm machinegun mounts under the cockpit area, along with missle launcher locations located on the undercarrage of the ship. the gunship (currently known as Project 210 (yes i'm numbering my projects!)) has a pair of landing struts and can carry a six person team without worry of danger or over crowding. The ship is equiped with a hyperdrive engine, though small and only usible for short jumps. (seven LY maximum before hyperdrive cooldown)

Dual axis ductfans are used for in planet atmosphere travel, twin ipon engines provide the needed thrust for space useage. with the dual axis duct fan design for the rotors Project 210 can gain up to 108 MPH/KPH in air on average planets with average gravity ratings. however more industrilzed planets require slower speeds. average space speed is more or less driven by the twin ion engines that put forth a thrust speed of 458 MPH/KPH before going tp hyperspace. the rotorsx are powered by standard rotor type motors that propel both duct fan propellers (with two sets of three propeller blades each for a total fo for actual propellers of three blades each). However given the timeframe we're starting in (I'm assuming 2025) the advanced technology of the rotors blades, motors and all, would be advanced beyond now.

I think your taking too many cues from Avatar. If you already have engines that can get you into pace, why add another set of weaker ones, that need more maintenance, for atmospheric travel?

Idea of the Day: Stellevator

Stellevators are force-field tether constructs, thousands of kilometers long, extended into the upper surface of a star’s surface. At the top housing the counterweight and large heat dispersion mechanism (radiators, subspace hat sinks, etc.), and a the other end a “float” containing power harnessing equipment and powerful shielding.
Protected from radiation and heat by shielding, powered by the star themselves, and mounted on a flexible force field tether that may elongate or contract to accommodate for sudden shifts in gravity, stellevators may be used to harness the titanic amounts of energy of star itself.