Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[puddlejumperOZ]

Interesting...



Lolz, whats up Killman.



Haha



I agree with the above >>^^<<



Locutes has a very valid point. I think you guys might aught to look at a bit of what he's saying more closely. Maybe combine yall's inputs together concerning the political climate and stability that Earth would be in during the current time frame that this fleet would be taking place in, you know?




Following the US blindly would be foolhardy, which is what I'm going to focus on in my series fyi.




I would have to agree with Mcoy here that starting around 2020 would be a pretty decent time period for this fleet might take place.



I'd say the time frame between 2020-2025 is a reasonable period.





Both David and jackclone1 are correct. Let me explain.
Okay, it would take a while to set up a fully functional colony, however, with a massive globalization effort put forth in an effort to establish an immediate habitat for colonists would not take very long. In fact, if I'm correct, it would only take a year or two to get a rather sizeable colony rolling along decently. Now, concerning the creation of full-fledged cities and large population centers and so and so forth, would actually take a quite a bit of time because you have to factor in the following information:
a.) Resources and supplies to begin working on such a project. Because building cities takes time.
b.) Consumables and payment for workers. Where will we be getting the workers also in the first place? Of course you might have volunteers or actual engineers, construction crews and such, but it’d take an assload of a lot of people to start creating large sections of a cities one piece at a time. Now of course we must consider our advanced technology, but…
c.) What technologies do the workers and such have access to? Will the military be involved in using beaming technology to help transport things and create the city? So on and so forth…
d.) What is the population of the colony?
Need I say more?

Now, onto what jackclone1 said about the mining and shipyard facilities. This is a yes and no. Depending on the situations and such, the construction of these facilities can take very long. However! If Earth is trying to develop as many ships as it possibly can as fast as possible and such, then their going to clearly be put in a lot of effort to get these facilities up and running and producing materials and products. In WW2, when the US Navy was bombed by the Japanese, we lost almost our entire Pacific fleet. We also didn’t have many ships to ferry the millions of troops. So what did we do? We established shipyards quickly and efficiently and we BUILT’DEM ships like crazy all within approximately somewhere around two and half years.

And I also heard about that how Australia created that shipyard in 18 months. That’s pretty sick.
But like I said, you got to factor in the advanced technologies that we possess and what we are able to use to make the construction of products/technologies/materials much quicker and efficiently.




I strongly agree here. Galactic corporations and trade companies should be rather prevalent in my opinion.

Mike, I take it you had some free time Now we're getting somewhere. Lets' say we get the ball rolling, start an intro at around 2015 or so, we'll say what we're doing and why, where we're going and with what. Then as circumstances evolve, we can move the story line up a bit each month until we get to the 2025 era.

At least I thought of all major car companies I knew of, Beijing Motor Works is more miltary based transport, along with buses and the like then normal cars and trucks. my own truck is a Ford make. (last I recall Ford owns Volovo, and when i mentioned Ford I include Volovo automatically )

Good point though, it is possibly that by 2015 in real life that Cryshler doesn't make it

Ford ditched Volvo earlier during the financial crisis, Volvo and Scania are partly owned by the State (Sweden) and a private consortium

[Major Mike David]

Mike, I take it you had some free time Now we're getting somewhere. Lets' say we get the ball rolling, start an intro at around 2015 or so, we'll say what we're doing and why, where we're going and with what. Then as circumstances evolve, we can move the story line up a bit each month until we get to the 2025 era.

Lol, ya. haha.
See, that is all what really needs to be done. Simple steps to getting things done. The thing is is that these tasks take time cause we have to spend time talking and debating about them. Which is necessary if we're going to mold things into shape and functionality.

Your dates are good with me. However, Mcoy provided a good calculation for things and so we should also consider the year 2020. The evolution of the story is vital because it will help the fleet grow and we need to establish what is going on in this universe.

[Princess Awinita]

Ford ditched Volvo earlier during the financial crisis, Volvo and Scania are partly owned by the State (Sweden) and a private consortium

I recall hearin g that Ford tried to sell Volovo to a Japanese automaker (not Toyota) and the deal fell through, last I heard (about four weeks ago on this subject in particular) was that Ford still had Volovo under its brands listing

[puddlejumperOZ]

I recall hearin g that Ford tried to sell Volovo to a Japanese automaker (not Toyota) and the deal fell through, last I heard (about four weeks ago on this subject in particular) was that Ford still had Volovo under its brands listing

The cars yes, but the trucks are a seperate division, like Scania was from SAAB.

So the deal is what? We start the chronology from 2015 with an intro, and work toward a goal of 2020 or 5?

[thekillman]

Oh, and are we using the Jotunar/Pegasus Asgard to remove the uber-tech so we can keep all the canon, or are we just cutting out Unending and screwing Atlantis?

i'd say remove unending, possibly even the ori.

That was my point. Starting from 2015 makes you create your colonies, gives you a background from which to start, and boring, no way. Do you know how much action is involvled in getting a colony started? I've spent 3 consecutive tours in both Iraq and Afganistan, and re-building those nations is akin to starting afresh, and belive me, we were never short of exitement.

And S9 and S10 of SG1, showed just how far the envelope of creative writing can be. Don't shoot the messenger, you can take a lot of good material from those seasons and SGA.

i never said ignore what happened. we should set guidelines to what roughly happened. but too much details both kills storytelling and it will eventually not make sense anymore. you can never patch all mistakes, nor can you ignore canon and get away with keeping other stuff.
we simply ignore a few bits and we then assume it turned out well in the global lines.

What's wrong with having the main story in 2025 and those who want to write about the formation of the colonies can?

i think the misconception is that the "motion" is in the 15 years and once we start, it's all static.
nope, colonisation is an ongoing process. at the time we start, there will be newborns on the colonies, but there still will be people migrating towards them. there might be other colonies from other people.
the Hebridans might start a new colony. Jaffa will have industralisation. some of their planets will already be big cities, other cities are still growing.
stuff is still happening. it's not like people look at the calender and say "oh it's 2025, lets stop colonising, we did our job"

a mytholodgical type of group that raid other colonies or the like at their whim.

if i look at the numbers for the colonies, then i'd say they would be quite well protected. as in: shield generators to protect the cities, anti-fighter weaponry, surface to orbit missiles, and perhaps some orbital defence system.

After that, you have a small period of upheaval. Not too long; there's no real motivation for all-out war. A year at most. Then you start getting civilian companies establishing off-world contacts (possibly see some Hebridian companies setting up on Earth), and starting non-military space-flight. I imagine the Stargate would stay securely non-public, however.

agreed, i doubt there's gonna be a lot of chaos. i mean, you'd think that after seeing a dozen alternate universes with a revealed programme, they'd know how to do it well.
besides, in the AU's it always was America who revealed it. with the IOA in place, there's gonna be less chaos. also the potential technologies reaching the public will calm them down fast enough.

So 2020 might be a good place to start.

actually i think 5 extra years is better: then you can have people who spent half their youth on earth and the rest of it +mature life on a colony.

I agree with that. I'd like to see how we get to 2025, rather than just say we're there.

that's what flash-backs are for. also, in story arcs, you can always start in the past and build towards it. still, too close to SG1 era is dangerous in terms of continuity and sense-making

Mining facilities and shipyards? Yeah, that'll take a bit longer, but jackclone1 makes a good point about their construction time. But regardless, colonies don't need to have those to be decently sized and self-sufficient. And the Hebridians are our best bet for helping with infrastructure. I see intergalactic corporations as playing a big part in colonization; think GE and Tech Con working together.

yes that takes time, but it depends on the state of the planet. i mean, some planets might never have been touched by intelligent life. by my reckoning, that means that ore veins are still quite close to the surface: stripmining will suffice.

PJ has a decent ship with his BB310, it's close to canon, and can hold a decent cargo/ passenger list.

i'd like to keep ship spots open, please. we can determine those later

I mentuioned a puzzle box type of construction, wherein containers or "Box Pieces" ten meters long, four meters wide and eight meters tall could be used in a varity of needs, from storage, to barracks to medical offices to a house! They'd be cheap to make (just as is with no add ons started at USD 1,200$)

prefab homes are easy to make and look better.

Lolz, whats up Killman

the ceiling [/dryly]
nah i'm fine. have my math exam in a few hours . i'm gonna die.

At least I thought of all major car companies I knew of, Beijing Motor Works is more miltary based transport, along with buses and the like then normal cars and trucks. my own truck is a Ford make. (last I recall Ford owns Volovo, and when i mentioned Ford I include Volovo automatically )

Good point though, it is possibly that by 2015 in real life that Cryshler doesn't make it

i'm not sure why we would need special offworld trucks.

priorities will be steel, concrete, asphalt(or tarmac or whatever you call it) factories and brick and wood factories.
so we can build roads pretty fast. Ring technology might be useful. not on every street corner, but i can see them being used for longer-range transport.

So the deal is what? We start the chronology from 2015 with an intro, and work toward a goal of 2020 or 5?

2025 is the best. it will give us ample time.

if you want stories of how it is built, do flashback stories, or start the arc in the past. but believe me, if i want to see the construction of some building, i'll watch discovery channel.


also regarding the political climate:

-i think politics will be cooled down, actually. finally there's an area of calmth, the Jaffa Nations are using their extensive fleet to keep tabs on criminals and terrorists, the Aschen are either unseen or aren't using their old tactics and in stead remain neutral.
the Hebridans are buisy selling technology and services to everyone with money, earth's colonies are stable and are growing. the Tok'ra have a growing population for once, and lots of people with some disease, or a sense of wonder, or whatever motivation, head to the tok'ra.
the LA has been beaten back and they're calm now. Langarans are exploring naquahdriah technology and all.

because the asgard are gone and earth has no means of reproducing asgard tech (i doubt we can make asgard tech, should be too advanced. whatever mckay made was often using ancient materials),
we have begun reverse-engineering asgard technologies to the best of our abilities and we're implementing the knowledge into new shield, hyperdrive and weapon designs.


Tok'ra: new ship design.

Hebridans: commensing ship production.

Jaffa Nations: still stuck with a fleet of goauld ships (a vast fleet)

LA: have begun designing their own ships

Earth: the F-302 and BC-304 are becoming outdated. earth's next top-secret projects are a new Battlecruiser, Fighter and Battleship.
also, now that asgard tech is inaccessible *although the already built technology is still operational) we've begun looking at Naquahdriah again. in fact, Rush(actually Eli)'s mathematical proof was how to safely drain energy from naquadriah.
so actually, we could use that to design a range of safe naquahdriah reactors.

Aschen: no idea what they're doing, but whoever likes scheming will probably love them.



also i see no need for PJOZ to write any opening story. what would that be about?

things i will write once the fleet begins:

-write in my own SG team.
-perhaps unsurprisingly they're gonna be the discoverers/explorers of the Locust.
-and i'll establish the locust so everyone "gets" how i think about them. they're mysterious because, well, they're dead. their ships are ghost ships.
-i'll probably write in the Nochta, although i first need time to rethink them.


lastly could our fleet not be too big? i like having an emotional attachement to ships. i mean, if i write that the Deadalus blows up, i would have everyone screaming here.
i like that. feels like we actually lost something.


again as to the fleet:
-we should have plenty of F-302's. for colonial defence and earth defence, as well as for our 304's.
-we should have some 10 BC-304's. i suspect production would've been stopped during revelation and all. also since we shouldn't be able to build asgard stuff, we'd run out of shield generators and all (i suspect the asgard always provided a few at a time, so we wouldn't be forced to cut production if the asgard were out of contact again)

-design for a 305, 306 and 307 should begin around 2019. colonies are established, galaxy is calm, research into shields etc is quite far along, and we have the resources again to commit ourselves to new ships.
-i'd say: 305 is a BC (deadalus-sized, 200m long, an all-round ship), 306 is a battleship (400-500m in length, capital ship killer)



as to technology:

-we got quite a portion of the Atlantis Database, Arctic Outpost Database, the Asgard Database.
-study of this knowledge and study of goauld tech has led to our own shields etc.

-our shields should be 4-5x stronger than goauld ones, but not asgard-level
-naquahdriah should power the new ships, the older ones still use asgard tech and naquahdah for power.
-we still used projectile weapons. preferably with an Intar-attachement (or with intar handguns) for non-lethal combat and capture.
-we use better "plasma-proof" vests: allows us to take a staffweapon blast and zats are ineffective on the armor (doesn't create a magical plotshield around you though: arms, legs, head stil vulnerable)
-UAV's and MALP-like vehicles will probably aid the SG-teams.

[bradly08]

well things are certainly moving on very fast since i last checked. some of the idea's sound really good and i'm going to throw in an idea of my own. They are called the Aeron's and they are a branch of humanitiy. Highly militaristic they are some-what of a rouge state and don't fully understand the situation in the galaxy. Here is a short history i made up for them (note: It only goes up to 2002)

Spoiler:

History
Aprox 5 million years ago: With the growing plague infecting even more systems by the day, a group of Ancients rebel and remove a small portion of the gate network (bubble measuring 500Ly across) on the outer age of the Perseus arm, and create there own mini gate network. The plan fails and those rebels are eventually killed by the same plague, leaving there mini-gate network empty.

Aprox 5,000 years ago: After the Sodan rebellion, and several incursions into his territory, the Goa’uld Ishkur retreats into an unexplored part of space. There he accidently discovered the ancient’s mini network. Sensing an opportunity to rise to power again, he captures several Celtic humans and seeds them on a planet called Aeron.

Aprox 3,000 years ago: Almost at the same time, the Humans on both Earth and Aeron rebel. Hit by another set-back he gives up on this planet and rebuilds on another world in the network. The Aeronians bury their gate and but keep some Goa’uld artifacts.

1531 AD: After centuries of advancement, The Aeronians have reached that of the 19th century Earth. With the wave of industrial advancement, a new movement; the popular front is founded. (Similar in ideology to communism).

1621-1651 AD: After years of tension, several of Aerons largest nations go to war. After several years of fighting millions of people are killed and several nations fall; one nation, The Osea principality falls and is swiftly taken over by the P.F. although the royal family remain, there powers are reduced to that of a ceremonial role. When the war ends a new organisation called the Aeron Commonwealth is set up to encourage co-operation.

1690 AD: Ishkur finally gains enough troops to set up an empire in the mini-network. While searching for a new base, Ishkur finds a gate that connects to both the Mini-network and the main network called Dis Pater. Meanwhile on Aeron, Osea invades and occupies several of its neighbour nations, sparking a cold war between Tyrus and Osea.

1713 AD: As the cold war between Osea and Tyrus grows, they engage in a space race. Osea becomes the first to land a man on Aeron’s only moon. It causes great support for the P.F movement.

1759 AD: Ishkur discovers how much the Aerons have advanced and sends his troops and ships to recapture the planet. By this time space exploration of the Aeron system is common. Destroying most space craft, he uses his 3 Ha’taks to bombard cities from space. Landing on the planet, Ishkur quickly destroys any remaining resistance. But an Osea Special Forces team manages to capture an Al’kesh and uses it to board a Ha’tak. While there they plant explosives and manage to board a second ship. Having lost most of his forces he pulls back, giving the Aeron forces a chance to counter-attack. Retreating from the planet, he takes his last Ha’tak and enters orbit around one of the Gas Giants. Using this opportunity, the same S.F team leads a force to capture the Ha’tak. The Ha’tak is destroyed, making the S.F team legends, but a Tel’tak is seen exiting the ship and jumping out of the system, sparking fear that Ishkur survived. The P.F takes advantage of the new political landscape and turns the Aeron Commonwealth into a superstate. But this causes a bitter Civil War, which lasts for 20 years.

1796 AD: After years of securing there power and rebuilding, the new commonwealth sets about colonising the system. Construction of an FTL capable ship (based on a captured Al’kesh) begins, with plans on it reaching the Osiria system.

1797 AD: As the ship reaches the Osiria system, to everyone’s surprise a habitable planet in orbit. There they discover a stargate. A base is set up there to study it and the planet. The DHD is damaged so the gate cannot be dialled.

1799 AD: They finally manage to activate the gate and discover several other planets. They also find Iskur’s now abandoned base and various technologies. One of them, A Goa’uld UV shield enables the planet Silus in the Aeron system to be colonised, leading to 3 planets in the Aeron system with humans on it.

1921 AD: After centuries of unrivalled scientific advancement, the Aeron people begin to move beyond their home system and start colonising others. Having re-found there own stargate on Aeron, they begin to properly explore the network, but fear over a return of Ishkur causes this exploration to go slowly.
After years of research, scientists conclude that the network is roughly a sphere, 500Ly across, and contains over 300 systems. It is Unknown how many of those contain stargate, but 117 so far have been successfully dialled. Colonisation of those closest to Aeron (so to allow FTL capable ships to reach them) begins. Several people turn towards piracy and so a Navy is created to combat this. They discover Dis Pater and also realise it has a unique gate compared to others. A small outpost is build and they begun to explore the other gates it can dial.

1950 AD: Discovering that the galaxy is filled with many more like Ishkur, The Commonwealth government decide not to tell the public this, but instead tell them that research is on going. A fleet of ships is permanently stationed in orbit.

1991 AD: With 20 systems colonised, the Aeronians are at the height of power. But several gate activations on Dis Pater alarm the government. They abandon the small outpost and bombard the planet until it is uninhabitable, but a distress signal is sent out. Weeks later several Goa’uld ships under the command of Camulus arrive. They destroy the old fleet (16 ships) in orbit and begin to set up a base from which they can explore. This couldn’t be hid from the public and so the government sent a task force to recapture the planet. 42 ships left for the Dis Pater system, but only 17 survived, leaving the fleet with only 62 ships and severely under powered. They managed to hold of a counter-attack but again take heavy casualties (Due to inexperience in fighting Goa’uld in over 300 years). Many pirates take advantage of this situation by raiding several planets, once protected by the fleet. The most infamous is the Raid on Setti IV, in which 65% of the crops were either stolen or destroyed.

2002 AD: The battle over Dis Pater rages on, with the Goa’uld attacking several times a year. With only the minor Goa’uld aware of the smaller network, the fleets that attack Dis Pater only have 3 or 4 Ha’taks, but they are still able to deal out massive damage. As it is the only planet known to dial both networks it becomes highly prized, and some Goa’uld have risked there own empires to gain a foothold. The Dis Pater system has become a minefield of destroyed ships and rubble. Rumours spread Aeron of Ishkur’s return from the outer worlds. Also the wave of piracy has increased, this has lead to the Militia (Police) having to take over from the fleet.

Like i said this is only a brief history, I have alot more info on their military strenghts, economy, layout of the commonwealth ect.

[thekillman]

i've seen that story before....



anyway what is their purpose?

[locutes]

I think we should start as late as possible, but still stay in a universe we know.

Also as to the politics, I think earth politics should be as hectic as possible for at least 5 years, after that it should stabilize, BUT it should stay hectic and the old nations of power should have 'fallen', should have lost their power like what has happened after WW2 to the old powers of the world. These should include but not stay limited to the UK, US, Russia and CHina

[thekillman]

i don't see why it still would be hectic. i'm more in for a peripeteia: the situation is calm, as the entire galaxy has calmed down largely. then series of events including the Locust and buba's guys cause the stir up and make stuff hectic again

[locutes]

why would it not be hectic?! Have you forgotten of Earth cultures? Christianity, Islam, and many more talk about the devil and would lots of humans not do that what we have done before only so many times in our own history. Earth politics would only feed of that, the Jaffa will see we are not what we seemed to be, while yet we are still also. Other races will take advantage, the Aschen slowly expanding, slowly understanding the gate system more.

Then we have simple Earth based politics... It will create hectic times if they slowly get power elsewhere

[thekillman]

what's your idea of hectic?

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

Political maneuvering will never really end, but it won't be life-threatening stuff like one nation trying to take over the world; just your everyday arrogant politicians trying to pull strings in their favor.

And what could cause the major nations to lose power? Au contraire, there is now even more reason for the Stargate Treaty nations to gain power.

Oh, and there's really no religious motivation for upheaval either. Not even from Islam. Now, Iran (for example) might be mad that we hid all the technology, but -- quite frankly -- tough. What could they do about it?

[locutes]

I think the IOA nations will fall, if only because of public opinion. In the end IOA nations their way in keeping such things secret for so long and LYING to the public of the gate and all other things for so long, I think nations will not like that.


Also as with hectic I meant politically hectic, nations at each other's throats but not at war. The MW galaxy in peace? I think not, the free jaffa in fighting again, the Aschen advance, planets die because of those foragers, Terrans expanding on all fronts bringing with them the arrogance like in the ages of expansion and exploration on earth.

[Princess Awinita]

. . .

I'll list my answers in list for to understand you better and also be better orgonised

• I thought the Ori too overpowered ot begin with, not having them in 4.0 is a good idea, and I agree, Unending made no sense to me so that can go too and not be included
• You forget my mention of "everyones out to get you" style of gothic writing; basically that would be where the attacks get through, for example, the group targets a small base of mining area that is well protected, but some of their own are already hired there and working. They let them in, the site is taken over, etc.
• The only time I can see chaos happening is when the stargate is reavealed or major battels begin between countries over who gets what of downed craft. I can see that the exsitance of the stargate itself being kept secret though.
• Personally I like the idea of starting with a timneline as suggested that begins in 2015, then goes until 2025-30, this would fgive time to create and set up a colony or more, then allow the places to grow and mature rightly.
• I like the idea of flashbacks, they're fun to write. Would also give insight to the splinter groups and other groups and the like
• Stripmining mention here brings upo my recent run in with a bumper sticker saying "EARTH FIRST!! We'll stripmine the rest of the galaxy later" (not related to anything said here, just got reminded of it )
• Ship creation is fun, and I agree we can work on those later
• True, prefab homes and buildings do look nicer yes, but I've been thinking of the cost to create such items, using a container/Box Piece system would make it easier, plus the containers can be slave rigged to transport to a location, land, then be set up as needed.
  • I mention the trucks for offworld use as a means to et around, not everyone will want to walk everywhere, in some cities, mostly where peopel are living, you'll want some kind of transport for everyone, even carpools wil work.
• What about dark matter or antimatter reactors? I ask this because a friend of mine (who comes to gateworld all the time) has created his own fleet, but has kept them on the edge of the milky way, along with a small garrison in Pegasus and such; I've helped him with soldiers and the like and also some new ship designs. Though they are all of anicent make/design.
• Admiral puddlejumperOZ is an exclent writer, I should know, I have him as a writer in my Rogue Trader thread; his pieces are really worth the read.
• Aschen; I could take them into anything pretty easy, spy network anyone? Nevermind spy network, we'd already have a gothic race with them, so to speak. I'm not esxactly sure if I can take them into the fold though as I'm in far too many games and wroting groups as it is (nearing twenty in total)
• I like the idea for a smaller fleet, so if a ship gets destoryed we can feel the backlash, of both loss of life, and also cost of building a new craft. There would be lotrs of anger here I would think, and trust between groups and colonies couyld be stretched thin perhap?

[thekillman]

untill the public learns that keeping it a secret is the reason we still exist in the first place

the free jaffa in fighting again

who?

, the Aschen advance,

they're more subtle than that. besides they barely have the ability to travel galactically.

planets die because of those foragers,

that's GOING to happen

Terrans expanding on all fronts bringing with them the arrogance like in the ages of expansion and exploration on earth.

people would wanna leave because of what happened and because of the chances. also, what do you mean arrogance? they'll go live on planets that weren't inhabited. it's not like they go murder natives