Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[thekillman]

Without getting into the semantics of free will, that's not necessarily the case, the Tka have had the tech for a long time now,

the Tka are kind of different. they've been turned into Legion. so while the individial has no free will, the Entity has. for the Houjin there really is no free will as nobody would notice a beneficial or a harmful change. they'd be programming. not saying it's a bad story point, just saying that it's a sacrifice.

of course people can be happy without free will. A Brave New World is an excellent example.

it's simply a sacrifice you have to make, and it would be foolish not to touch upon the good and bad sides together. but the moment you begin personality alteration, there really is no boundary to what is possible and thus you loose sight of what defines a person, and what defines a personality. plus i don't see why a race would give away their free will to an alien race. plus i kind of totally lost where that alien race came from and when you introduced them.

you have to take in account that it could become a dictatorship (technically more like an olicharchy) very easily as you could simply go on a witch hunt for "corrupt" people, eliminate the opposition through personality alteration and go rule via one party.

personality alteration isn't something that allows utopia. it just becomes a different playing field. plus the monks or whatever themselves are not immune to the human flaw, or whatever race they are. Oma Desala herself proved that not even Ascended are without flaws.


so i urge you to be cautious, and i urge you to not close your eyes for one solution or one way only.

It was originally determined by the alien race, the Kokoro monks, who now have the device, they determine who it is used on.

i am completely lost on the Kokoro. i think District 9 is quite realistic as to what would happen when aliens visit us that don't mean harm.

[Crazy Tom]

the Tka are kind of different. they've been turned into Legion. so while the individial has no free will, the Entity has. for the Houjin there really is no free will as nobody would notice a beneficial or a harmful change. they'd be programming. not saying it's a bad story point, just saying that it's a sacrifice.

of course people can be happy without free will. A Brave New World is an excellent example.

it's simply a sacrifice you have to make, and it would be foolish not to touch upon the good and bad sides together. but the moment you begin personality alteration, there really is no boundary to what is possible and thus you loose sight of what defines a person, and what defines a personality.

I expect that definition would simply shift to accommodate the new norm.

The Tka aren't technically a Legion, they act individually, it's their subconscious processes that make up the supra-entity, so to speak.

[Gormagon]

the Tka are kind of different. they've been turned into Legion. so while the individial has no free will, the Entity has. for the Houjin there really is no free will as nobody would notice a beneficial or a harmful change. they'd be programming. not saying it's a bad story point, just saying that it's a sacrifice.

of course people can be happy without free will. A Brave New World is an excellent example.

it's simply a sacrifice you have to make, and it would be foolish not to touch upon the good and bad sides together. but the moment you begin personality alteration, there really is no boundary to what is possible and thus you loose sight of what defines a person, and what defines a personality. plus i don't see why a race would give away their free will to an alien race. plus i kind of totally lost where that alien race came from and when you introduced them.

you have to take in account that it could become a dictatorship (technically more like an olicharchy) very easily as you could simply go on a witch hunt for "corrupt" people, eliminate the opposition through personality alteration and go rule via one party.

personality alteration isn't something that allows utopia. it just becomes a different playing field. plus the monks or whatever themselves are not immune to the human flaw, or whatever race they are. Oma Desala herself proved that not even Ascended are without flaws.


so i urge you to be cautious, and i urge you to not close your eyes for one solution or one way only.

I am, but the entire race is not programmed,(Nor is it programming.) only those who are the leaders who turn bad are taken to the temple. It is not your typical brainwashing or programming as we think of it ether, it really is not. The common folk are generally content and there is no reason for them not to be. I suppose they could sort of be programmed in the form of indoctrination. But it is good indoctrination.

Except that it is not a dictatorship. Well. How do I put this......it is a good dictatorship? Light side dictatorship? I suppose there is a chance it could start to turn bad, and that could be good for future story lines.

They do not witch hunt.

What I am trying to do is present a race where it does not all go to pots, a 1 in a million chance race, a unique people, one that did not follow the mainstream. They do not follow only their own guidance but the guidance of a race much older and wiser. You keep saying there is a chance of this and a chance of that....I know. We see it all around us. I think it could be interesting to see a race where those chances do not happen.

i am completely lost on the Kokoro. i think District 9 is quite realistic as to what would happen when aliens visit us that don't mean harm.

L.O.L.....

The Kokoro monks are humans and a few members of a protectorate alien race in the kingdom. Those monks are about as pure as it comes. Except for the not having an Oma around, they could ascend.

The alien race that brought them there disappeared a long time ago.

Kokoro is a word, it means mind or soul. Sorry for the confuzzlement.

[thekillman]

The Kokoro monks are humans and a few members of a protectorate alien race in the kingdom. Those monks are about as pure as it comes. Except for the not having an Oma around, they could ascend.

right...

nah still confuzzled.

[Gormagon]

Are you sure that is my fault?

[Crazy Tom]

Gor has a point on the light side dictatorship, a lot of dictatorships start out pretty good, it's usually in the succession that issues arise. If you have an immortal leader...

[Gormagon]

Cloning. Or....

Or a series of leaders that would be like the last ones.


This Terra Nova...I must watch it. I shall see if it is available on instant watch. Just got done with Kyle XY I need something else now. Would not going to the past to live screw up things in the future?

[thekillman]

Would not going to the past to live screw up things in the future?

it's a different timestream. so basically they're parallel time lines.

[fugiman]

Gor can you put up a history that is both brief but also will explain the houjin culture so we know who the monks are and how their government works.

Also when you say the monks can ascend do you mean like Daniel Jackson could ascend because Oma deemed him a worthy person or can they ascend but they choose not to?

[thekillman]

just watched Space battleship Yamato.


kind of have mixed feelings. the main plot is nice, the side plots horrible. quite a bit is predictable and the main hero downright cheesy and a walking cliché.


Yamato performing the atmospheric dive was a nice one. in fact, most of Yamato itself was quite nice, including the battles, BVR engagements et all.


Gor: the Wave Motion Gun is a pure capital ship killer and it's kind of what i'd expect the Houjin to have as the only effective weapon against the Goauld (well efficiently effective). a big gun disguised as a ship. mostly runs off Capacitors, and has the vulnerability of enormous maintenance and the lack of an ability to recharge to full in anything under half a year, which is why it would be rather reliant on planets to recharge.

their vulnerability in combat terms would naturally be anything too small and fast to be hit by the main gun, which is why some backup heavy guns would have use, but mostly it would be the main gun. you'd need escorts to deal with Al'kesh and Tel'tak and DG's.

[Gormagon]

Gor can you put up a history that is both brief but also will explain the houjin culture so we know who the monks are and how their government works.

Also when you say the monks can ascend do you mean like Daniel Jackson could ascend because Oma deemed him a worthy person or can they ascend but they choose not to?

Yes, I can, not tonight though I am too tired. There is some of that already on the wiki if you want to peek.

I mean Oma would let them ascend.


Wave motion gun. It is incorporatable.

[fugiman]

Ok just making sure that they couldn't ascend but I get what you mean.

What is the link to the wiki?

Please and Thank You

[Gormagon]

http://gwvf.wikia.com/wiki/Arata_Houjin'oukoku

I added some more to the page. Adjusted some stuff we chatted about.

Its not done yet by here is what I came up with for the Houjin particle rifle.

Particle rifle.

A deadly multi-purpose weapon. They fire streams or pulses of highly accelerated non charged naquadah atoms, kirons and exotons.

Houjin particle rifles are versatile. They have four settings, the first, single shot, fires a mid level coherence stream of particles used for piercing other soldiers armors and frying them. The second is the auto matic setting, it rapidly fires pulses of particles like highly advanced, very effective bullets. The fourth setting fires a high level coherence stream of particles. This is the sniper setting. A advanced scope is built into the weapon. The last setting sets the stream to minimal coherence and fires a wide angle stream of particles used for at least injuring if not killing tight nit groups of men. Power requirments for each setting vary.

The particle rifle is powered by a L.N cell.

[thekillman]

Wave motion gun. It is incorporatable.

sigh. not literally.

[Gormagon]

*Sigh* I was tired and drooling on my keyboard *Sigh* Have to buy a new one *Sigh*

Something similar to it.