Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[fugiman]

I like that.

Also what if the Templars reburied the gate after Thatus opened it against the wishes of Daniel and the Templars. Thatus claiming he would build an empire in the stars and return. Daniel Jackson seals the gate again and Thatus is never heard from again on earth.

Also I like the idea of Thatus bringing different races out to the galaxy. Maybe we should make a list of a few worlds that Thatus would have spread too.

1. Aschen (maybe romans)
2. Tollan (maybe Athenians)
3. Spartans (Spratans)
4. Langara (English, Quinn is an English Surname)
5. Eurondan (Definitively Germanic)
6. Hebridan (Celtic)
7. Ma'Chello's People (Roman)
8. Martin's people (English?)
9. The race with the Bugs that almost kill Teal'c (who knows?)
10. Killmans world (Thatus, roman)

Also I was thinking that the Goa'uld who ruled these worlds discovered them rather then bring people there. Maybe it was a surprise to the Goa'uld and the reason these wolds went independent was because of their large populations.

[thekillman]

Also what if the Templars reburied the gate after Thatus opened it against the wishes of Daniel and the Templars. Thatus claiming he would build an empire in the stars and return. Daniel Jackson seals the gate again and Thatus is never heard from again on earth.

has to be. in fact, this is likely why it was never known to us: the Templar are shocked by the event, but Thatus has cleverly covered his tracks. the Templar re-bury the gate and increase the security.

1. Aschen (maybe romans)
2. Tollan (maybe Athenians)
3. Spartans (Spratans)
4. Langara (maybe Germanic)
5. Eurondan (Definitively Germanic)
6. Hebridan (Celtic)
7. Ma'Chello's People (Roman)
8. Martin's people (English?)
9. The race with the Bugs that almost kill Teal'c (who knows?)
10. Killmans world (Thatus, roman)

not sure. it's possible a few evolutions of mankind survived Dakara and were never corrupted by the Plague, and thus evolved like Earth did.

i think we should leave it at my world, Aschen, Tollan. maybe Tep knows one.

i doubt every single colony became super significant given our own history, and i doubt all were ruled by goauld.

[fugiman]

i doubt every single colony became super significant given our own history, and i doubt all were ruled by goauld.

Oh I only meant to explain why a few of the worlds have had goa'uld rulers in the past. Not all of them.

Also Langra isn't that important and Eurodan, Ma'Chellos people and Martin's people are gone so they can't offer to much more either

[Princess Awinita]

Not really. It depends on what time gap you want to introduce. For knowledge of using tech to disappear would take a very long time and would require that there be absolutely nobody left with the required knowledge. This is highly unlikely in an advanced civilization which has, like I said, progressed to a certain level of information storage and education. You're talking generations upon generations of time needs to elapse.

Conversely, it does not take generations upon generations for a feudal form of government to set in. After some disaster in which society has broken down, the most simple forms of leadership will reemerge first as people try to protect themselves by rallying together.

You could believably have some sort of feudal structure in the space of one generation, while all the tech and knowledge still persists in isolated pockets. Like I said, it depends on which approach you wanna take. A feudal system long after the collapse of society, with 'backward' tech and 'feral' living (not knocking it, I just don't see the point).

Or you can do feudal system following on shortly after the collapse of society where tech and knowledge still persists, but it is the new commodity. Note this doesn't mean war torn ganglands either, it just means a race struggling for stability in the aftermath.

EDIT: say for example, one of the civilizations that was wiped out by Linara's(?) plagues. A tiny percentage of them perhaps survive due to natural immunity and are struggling to get back on their feet.

Or the fedual system could be just a planet that has been once part of a grater civilisation, but then got isolated and never advanced farther then they got before getting isolated. So who knows, there may still be a planet out there that uses old fashioned swords and sorcery to get the job done. you never know for sure

[immhotep]

I have an idea maybe Thatus was part of the Templars.

However he was tired of being second fiddle to Daniel (if we go with Daniel). Anyway he seizes all the alien technology from the Templars that he can and leads a group of romans through the stargate hoping that he can form a new empire with him as leader.

So maybe this planet has a stash of technology from the Templars, maybe something really adcanced from the Asgard or Ancients. This could give the Lucian Alliance a huge tactical advantage. Maybe they find some of Janus's research or Merlin's research. Possibly numerous goa'uld and ancient technology from across the galaxy.

Well Thatus and Daniel couldnt coexist, and I think the Templars and Thatus are two seperate pieces of a general ancient picture that we can uncover without them having to overlap in such an intricate way.

Also what if the Templars reburied the gate after Thatus opened it against the wishes of Daniel and the Templars. Thatus claiming he would build an empire in the stars and return. Daniel Jackson seals the gate again and Thatus is never heard from again on earth.

I think the Templars, Merlin and Daniel would have been the ones to reseal the gate after thatus certainly. Actually one of my ideas is that Thatus reopening the gate is what allows merlin to conduct his work on Earth. As he needed a planet which the stargate could be accessed but not publically known, so he could have instructed the Templars to cover up both him and Thatus as a method to protect the gates existance in the future and prevent invasion.

Also I like the idea of Thatus bringing different races out to the galaxy. Maybe we should make a list of a few worlds that Thatus would have spread too.

1. Aschen (maybe romans)
2. Tollan (maybe Athenians)
3. Spartans (Spratans)
4. Langara (English, Quinn is an English Surname)
5. Eurondan (Definitively Germanic)
6. Hebridan (Celtic)
7. Ma'Chello's People (Roman)
8. Martin's people (English?)
9. The race with the Bugs that almost kill Teal'c (who knows?)
10. Killmans world (Thatus, roman)

Also I was thinking that the Goa'uld who ruled these worlds discovered them rather then bring people there. Maybe it was a surprise to the Goa'uld and the reason these wolds went independent was because of their large populations.

I agree with these, although Langara, Martings and the bug people dont fit.

not sure. it's possible a few evolutions of mankind survived Dakara and were never corrupted by the Plague, and thus evolved like Earth did.

i think we should leave it at my world, Aschen, Tollan. maybe Tep knows one.

i doubt every single colony became super significant given our own history, and i doubt all were ruled by goauld.

I cant think of ones right now but we have talked about the general feel of the thatian races. But in general i agree that they dont all have to be super. however I will say that any populations of humans which survived dakara would be well over a million years old and most likely be ancient. Its the basis behind my Nox theory, that the nox are the ancients which survived.

[Gormagon]

ts the basis behind my Nox theory, that the nox are the ancients which survived.

Erm, watch the Nox episode again, then torment of Tantalus, they are different species. Nox are not Alterans. They are an ancient race, but not "Ancients".

There written languages are really, really different. Their way of life. Their appearance. The city also did not look Ancienty to me.

Plus I would much rather they be a different species and not Alterans.

[thekillman]

I cant think of ones right now but we have talked about the general feel of the thatian races. But in general i agree that they dont all have to be super. however I will say that any populations of humans which survived dakara would be well over a million years old and most likely be ancient. Its the basis behind my Nox theory, that the nox are the ancients which survived.

Earth survived Dakara and we're not uber.

it's very likely the Ancients, based upon their Human Seeding project in Pegasus, did the same in the Milky Way. Dakara destroyed all of that, aside from earth. the Nox, as they have a stargate, must've survived that too. however, any original human evolution predating Dakara likely is earth-like in development. maybe a bit ahead or behind.

my theory, based upon the Nox nature of using, to paraphrase the Nox and Teal'c, trickery and deceit, is that the Nox are in fact alien-looking, but the appearance they have is the one we imagine them to be.

it reminds me of Klaaru (The day the earth stood still). Klaaru claims that he took human form because his alien form would be "too disturbing". it's possible the Nox in reality are an intelligent mold, but their "projected" form is one that's more convenient in human interaction.


it's also why i think the Nox-Anquieta alliance was the basis for the Great Alliance: the Nox essentially imitated the Ancient form to better interact.

[Gormagon]

The Nox predate the Dakara reseeding though do they not? According to you guys, the alliance was 5-10 million years old, older then the super plague.

[thekillman]

it's the only way it makes sense within SG1's context.


Atlantis left about 7 million years ago, as that's Ayanna's period of Death and she was around when Atlantis left. she was found a distance from the Outpost, suggesting she walked that way to the Gate, perhaps to leave to a different place. this would directly place her death at that period of time, and thus Atlantis left 7 million years ago. note that Jackson gives a figure of 5-10, which fits nicely.

the Plague didn't come fast, as the Ancients had the time to come up with various countermeasures, like the Time Machine in Window Of Opportunity. it failed horribly and it's suggested it was on for quite some time untill it was finally shut down. given that the cycles SG1 were in was already a month, it could've been many years. Dakara had to finish the plague once and for all, otherwise the Ancients could've just let everything die out rather than requiring Dakara to be fired. thus, that planet had to be hit by Dakara.


now i am not certain about the nature of the "reseeding". it's damn well impossible to use such a kind of weapon to fully recreate life, so it likely made the seeds. unless we underestimated Dakara, and it really is a humongous matter converter/transporter esque device. kind of like Asgard transporters.

[Gormagon]

My point being that the Nox are not Alterans. Or should not be, its boring. It is much cooler to have them as an actual alien race.

Erm, watch the Nox episode again, then torment of Tantalus, they are different species. Nox are not Alterans. They are an ancient race, but not "Ancients".

There written languages are really, really different. Their way of life. Their appearance. The city also did not look Ancienty to me.

Plus I would much rather they be a different species and not Alterans.

[blackluster]

not necessarily. first off, an EMP event on earth would likely be something we won't recover from fast. combine it with a more physical catastrophic event, like a meteor impact of sufficient size, and you're done.

That kind of perfect storm of problems is a pointless comparison since nothing survives in that case. Of the number of things that can affect population numbers on a wide scale from meteor strikes to nuclear winters to pathogens, technology will still outlast its organic creators a majority of the time. An EMP just stops things from working, it doesn't fundamentally destroy technology or the ability to reproduce it.

loosing technology is easiest done when:

*it's high-tech, possibly classified (think: military hardware of the highest classes)
*it's production requirements are very high (think: advanced materials and complex production techniques)
*the experts on the area of technology die.

Again, a perfect storm scenario. Not really useful for writing stories.

now there's two distinctions you have to make:

Technology and knowledge. while Rocket Science is unlikely to be forgotten that fast, the technology of the newest rockets are easily lost. it can be -eventually-reproduced, but the actual tech is gone.


while Battery technology won't go away, it's unlikely that in a catastrophic event, we can easily recover and build the high-tech ones from this period. a Prius, for example, won't be duplicated like that, since it also contains a factor called TESTING.

which brings me to a third aspect:

Designs.


sometimes, Design and Technology and Knowledge are the same: like i said, in high-tech applications in relatively new areas.

however, you could loose a design, but not the technology, IE, of some cargo rocket.


thirdly, you might not loose the design, the technology, but you can loose the knowledge. think of a scenario where you still have your Iphone (tech AND design), but you lost the factories making them and the people working there.



a far more painful loss would be loosing the Railgun prototypes we have IRL. it's the three combined. it has a lot of testing, and loosing it means loosing all three aspects. although the concept still exists (you could arguably consider this an aspect), there's a humongous difference between electrifying two rails and producing a military-grade weapon.



if we loose the JSF, we don't loose the tech and knowledge of Jet Fighters. well, some of it. we do loose the design. but we could re-make it.

These examples are kinda specific to how we disseminate information on planet earth which I doubt is a particularly well balanced or widely applicable model. I already mentioned the reliance on surviving expertise, so the starting point for crafting the scenario is that very assumption.

simple fact: as data density increases, so does the chance of error. an EMP would rid the world of quite a few designs in a whim. add a combo of some disaster (doesn't even have to be global), and you loose the Knowledge and production capacity.

think "Ipad". destroy the factory and EMP the harddrives with the design. now it might be on a USB stick somewhere, but that can be lost. then, the tech is gone. well not physically, but you ultimately need knowledge to begin with.



it would be hard to remove Earth's knowledge of hyperdrives, but it would be quite simple to blast our hyperdrive knowledge back to season-7 levels.

Again, the example is specific to how we disseminate data. Currently, we're simply not that good at it, so earth makes for poor analogies in terms of what is possible. I've also noted in engineering, particularly in my field of radar that knowledge tends to reoccur where we all have the fundamentals. Losing specific caches of data only slows development, it doesn't actually do much to halt it. Sure you might lose tech trees but that happens day currently anyway. The barrel manufacturing technology for G6 mobile artillery guns is an example.

So my point stands. In a scenario where a civilization has attained a certain level of data storage and education, technology and knowledge is unlikely to disappear. They only have to be moderately more competent at those two aspects of civilization than we currently are, and their culture will persist to some extent.

[immhotep]

Erm, watch the Nox episode again, then torment of Tantalus, they are different species. Nox are not Alterans. They are an ancient race, but not "Ancients".

There written languages are really, really different. Their way of life. Their appearance. The city also did not look Ancienty to me.

Plus I would much rather they be a different species and not Alterans.

The written language of a civilization can change within a matter of decades, so them having a other languages and texts besides the alteran/latin script does not suggest they are no ancient; compare old english and text speak and you would not believe they are derivatives of each but they are. Considering we have seen several variations, dialects and scripts of the ancient (i alone have 5 fonts worth) just their script is not enough to disprove my theorem

Earth survived Dakara and we're not uber.

it's very likely the Ancients, based upon their Human Seeding project in Pegasus, did the same in the Milky Way. Dakara destroyed all of that, aside from earth. the Nox, as they have a stargate, must've survived that too. however, any original human evolution predating Dakara likely is earth-like in development. maybe a bit ahead or behind.

my theory, based upon the Nox nature of using, to paraphrase the Nox and Teal'c, trickery and deceit, is that the Nox are in fact alien-looking, but the appearance they have is the one we imagine them to be.

it reminds me of Klaaru (The day the earth stood still). Klaaru claims that he took human form because his alien form would be "too disturbing". it's possible the Nox in reality are an intelligent mold, but their "projected" form is one that's more convenient in human interaction.


it's also why i think the Nox-Anquieta alliance was the basis for the Great Alliance: the Nox essentially imitated the Ancient form to better interact.

I completely disagee. Sorry. But I have another perfectly viable theory and i have been developing it for quite some time. My belief is that the Nox are Ancients that were immune, or create the plague (depending on whcih variation of my theory we are using) and that they and the Alterans developed Dakara to wipe out the plague. As the only advanced lifeform immune from the great plague the Nox were left as the keepers of the Avalon galaxy and tasked with reseeding life while the remaining alterans (later lantians) left for another galaxy. The nox as an illusion based race is valid and im not saying they may not be that kind of species, however, I think that the Nox are the only remaining native part of the Alterans left in this galalxy. As to their technological level, its it at least, if not superior to the rest of the alliance in several parts and their biological powers (or technology) is far superior to any race in the galaxy. They have the ability to revive the dead, without issue, cloak, shield, disipate weapons fire and suspend time, and have the ability to built stargates and flying cloaked cityships. Now the ability to build a stargate gives them direct links to the ancients, the only other known manufactured stargate is orlin, and that is ascended knowledge. It wasnt even a replica of a stargate, it was a completely new design. Only an ancient or ancient sect could have that kind of knowledge on the stargates. Sure you could build a wormhole based transport device if you were highly advanced, even we know that, but to integrate it directly in to the existing network requires a level of knowledge that only the ancients know. The only person other than an Orlin to show that level of knowledge is Adria. The Nox are Ancient. THeir technology, biology and history fold in perfectly to demonstrate them as the humans left behind by the ancient to reseed life in the galaxy.

now i am not certain about the nature of the "reseeding". it's damn well impossible to use such a kind of weapon to fully recreate life, so it likely made the seeds. unless we underestimated Dakara, and it really is a humongous matter converter/transporter esque device. kind of like Asgard transporters.

I fully explored this in Genesis and came up with my own comprehensive mythology and storyline surrounding Dakara. Essentially Dakra is a matter converter, but one which does so on a galactic scale. I created a ship, the Ark, whoms purpose was to "template" every planet in the galaxy. Map everything on its surface and record and preserve a selection of its lifeforms, fauna and flora. Dakara would destroy the surface of each planet, then recreate the surface based on the template of its address given to it by the Ark. It would first destroy each surface and eradicade the plague so it could not adapt and survive and then over many thousands of years it would reassemble the galaxy as it was. The ancient left for so long, that they forgot the process, but some remained to oversee its completion, these were the Nox. So dedicated were they to recreating life that they dedicated thier entire civilization to preserving life, and in the shaddows they recreated, protected and preserved every life form they were able to.


Thats my theory of the Nox, that they were the ancients origionally charged with overseeing Dakara's resurrection of the galaxy.

[fugiman]

What about the Tollan Tep? They can make stargates too

[thekillman]

That kind of perfect storm of problems is a pointless comparison since nothing survives in that case. Of the number of things that can affect population numbers on a wide scale from meteor strikes to nuclear winters to pathogens, technology will still outlast its organic creators a majority of the time. An EMP just stops things from working, it doesn't fundamentally destroy technology or the ability to reproduce it.

an EMP fries circuit boards and fine tech. in one single blast every computer on the planet would become useless. but also the robots making the computers.


it doesn't have to be an Extinction Level Event.

and yes, tech often outlasts the creator, yes. but realistically, we would never have found Ancient tech. it ultimately degrades.

What about the Tollan Tep? They can make stargates too

the Nox helped them.

Thats my theory of the Nox, that they were the ancients origionally charged with overseeing Dakara's resurrection of the galaxy.

i understand your point. however i must point out a flaw:

the Stargate by no means has to be the signature of the Ancients. granted, both times the Gates perfectly aligned with the grid. however, it's not possible to rule out that the Nox simply learned this by studying it. we ourselves managed to modify the base program. for the Nox, it would not have to be much more than copying it from their own Gate.

it can not be ruled out that the Asgard can make Stargates. however based upon how they're set up, it would be fairly useless to them. by sacrificing a bit more time, they can get a starship on the scene, and not just a frail asgard through a stargate.

i consider it a shame that the Asgard, as time progressed, less and less got treated like the Great Race they are.


another thing: your "they oversaw Dakara" point stands regardless of whether they're Ancients. "my" Nox could do exactly the same. now i consider Dakara not as the pinnacle Ancient device, but rather something of Alliance making.


thirdly, the Alliance was there for sharing knowledge. thus, the Gate design could've been acquired that way. however, the signature of the Ancients is that they had way too much time on their hands. whereas the Asgard required every piece of tech to fight against the Replicators, the Ancients had some 50 million years (no matter how strongly i disagree with this, especially with Destiny's gate in mind) to develop and build everything they want. Earth is capable of building a gargantuan space-based massdriver capable of blowing up ha'tak in one shot, but we do not have the time nor resources to do it.


i agree that it's some kind of matter converter, as it seems to work more closely to Asgard Transporters than to any form of energy weapon we know. i doubt, however, that (based upon the CGI) the wave is sufficiently stable to create complex things.


i consider it far more likely that (since it seems to absorb life entirely) it unleashes it's energy to create basic life in the form of single-celled organisms who quickly assemble into life and fast-redevelop into plants and animals.

it would explain why the Goauld spread humans: there were none on the Galaxy, only plant and animal life.

As to their technological level, its it at least, if not superior to the rest of the alliance in several parts and their biological powers (or technology) is far superior to any race in the galaxy.

true, but that's exactly why i consider them to be the "ancients" of this galaxy, and why i have the origin story i have:

they're the oldest race of the Local Group. advanced beyond measure. it's highly unlikely any advanced race will form next to another highly advanced race. thus, the "advanced race density" simply can not be that high.


the Ancients came to the Local Group. they went to the Milky Way, settled, and then kind of stubled upon the Nox world. the Nox (in my case as Illusion entities), notice the Ancients. as a natural defense mechanism they make themselves appear in an ancient-like form. it's possible they lived among Ancients for a while, as the Ancients wouldn't have had the powers to see through it.

so the Nox use telepathy defensively to fool the Ancients. not a necessity for my backstory tho.

at some point the Nox decide the Ancients are friendly, and openly contact them. the Ancients are taken a bit aback, but establish friendly contact. this is the basis for the Alliance of Four Great Races.


the Nox openly allow the Ancients to settle in their galaxy as the Nox require little and are a peaceful race, even then. they're far more spiritual minded than the science-minded Ancients. at some point, the Ancient telescopes pick up a signal, and decide to investigate. this leads to the discovery of the Asgard, potentially in a nearby Supercluster (there's one not THAT far away).

the Asgard are considered worthy and the three form an alliance. they exchange knowledge, culture, ideas, etc.


then, after a while, another signal is detected, but in hyperspace. after a while, a massive fleet drops out, and it's the Furlings. they were travelling across the stars when they found the signals of the Ancients, Nox and Asgard, and decided to check it out. the Furlings are deemed worthy and enter the Alliance.


after a while, the Ancients detect a signal. likely unbeknownst to the other races, they send ships to figure it out. once Destiny was on it's way and past pegasus, one Ancient figured out Ascension was possible and the Ancients began to focus on it. it is likely the Ancients spread their knowledge of it to the Nox, Asgard and Furlings. history makes it clear that either they weren't sufficiently interested, considered it impossible, or simply weren't capable of achieving it at the time, as none of them ascended.

then, some more time later, the Plague strikes. i consider it of Ancient invention, possibly a leftover from the genetic branch of their Ascension research. or the byproduct of a Gene Resequencer. anyway, the plague slowly and silently spreads, becoming immune to ancient self-healing. before the Ancients know it, the Plague suddenly mutates to be deadly and wipes out a large deal of ancients at once, and then aggressively spreads. some ancient worlds "lock their doors" to prevent spreading it. the Ancient empire is in ashes, and the few Ancients that remain, decide to use their Terraformer on Dakara to annihilate the Plague in a single, galaxy-wide blast. Earth is left untouched by the Plague, and is locked out from Dakara's program. the weapon activates, every stargate in the galaxy activates, and in a single blast all life ever has ended.

then, -and this doesn't even have to be programmed by the Ancients, maybe by the Nox-
Dakara fires again, but this time World by World. it's energy wave is altered to seed new life throughout the galaxy, and slowly completes this task.




i must say however, Tep, that we use the same points to come up with different ideas. i myself am not a fan of "they turn out to be ancients".

[immhotep]

i understand your point. however i must point out a flaw:

the Stargate by no means has to be the signature of the Ancients. granted, both times the Gates perfectly aligned with the grid. however, it's not possible to rule out that the Nox simply learned this by studying it. we ourselves managed to modify the base program. for the Nox, it would not have to be much more than copying it from their own Gate.

Oh i agree that they could have studied it, but as a race famed by their seemingly basic lifestyle and lack of technology, such detailed and apparently offhand knowledge of the stargates suggest something more complex. They went from no tech besides brief glimpse in Nox to building a gate for the tollan 2 years later.

it can not be ruled out that the Asgard can make Stargates. however based upon how they're set up, it would be fairly useless to them. by sacrificing a bit more time, they can get a starship on the scene, and not just a frail asgard through a stargate.

i consider it a shame that the Asgard, as time progressed, less and less got treated like the Great Race they are.

I agree, on the asgard getting downgraded part, in terms of building stargates, there is just no evidence atall. We know they are aware of the gates but they have never shown a great interest in them atall.

another thing: your "they oversaw Dakara" point stands regardless of whether they're Ancients. "my" Nox could do exactly the same. now i consider Dakara not as the pinnacle Ancient device, but rather something of Alliance making.


thirdly, the Alliance was there for sharing knowledge. thus, the Gate design could've been acquired that way. however, the signature of the Ancients is that they had way too much time on their hands. whereas the Asgard required every piece of tech to fight against the Replicators, the Ancients had some 50 million years (no matter how strongly i disagree with this, especially with Destiny's gate in mind) to develop and build everything they want. Earth is capable of building a gargantuan space-based massdriver capable of blowing up ha'tak in one shot, but we do not have the time nor resources to do it.

i agree that it's some kind of matter converter, as it seems to work more closely to Asgard Transporters than to any form of energy weapon we know. i doubt, however, that (based upon the CGI) the wave is sufficiently stable to create complex things.

I agree of virtually all of those points, especially the part regarding Dakara being an alliance project. However you need to clarify what you mean by Alliance. Because the Asgard could not have been part of the alliance at the time of Dakara, they are at the very least 900,000 years apart. You nox could have done the same, but my nox make sense in that the only life we know about from that long ago are ancients. Without any additional knowledge about the Furlings and nox, to say the alliance and the members of it are old enough to have overseen Dakara is to say they are ancient

i consider it far more likely that (since it seems to absorb life entirely) it unleashes it's energy to create basic life in the form of single-celled organisms who quickly assemble into life and fast-redevelop into plants and animals.

it would explain why the Goauld spread humans: there were none on the Galaxy, only plant and animal life.

Fair point, but given how the Lantians reacted to our form in before I sleep, they is some evidence that we are a special template of the lantian form, maybe the complex stuff was only used on a handful of worlds.

true, but that's exactly why i consider them to be the "ancients" of this galaxy, and why i have the origin story i have:

they're the oldest race of the Local Group. advanced beyond measure. it's highly unlikely any advanced race will form next to another highly advanced race. thus, the "advanced race density" simply can not be that high.


the Ancients came to the Local Group. they went to the Milky Way, settled, and then kind of stubled upon the Nox world. the Nox (in my case as Illusion entities), notice the Ancients. as a natural defense mechanism they make themselves appear in an ancient-like form. it's possible they lived among Ancients for a while, as the Ancients wouldn't have had the powers to see through it.

so the Nox use telepathy defensively to fool the Ancients. not a necessity for my backstory tho.

at some point the Nox decide the Ancients are friendly, and openly contact them. the Ancients are taken a bit aback, but establish friendly contact. this is the basis for the Alliance of Four Great Races.

Again yours is a great theory, I have nothing concrete to offer as a negative, only that we have two theories and each could be correct, we have seen other races use thiis kind of defence, the reole for example.

the Nox openly allow the Ancients to settle in their galaxy as the Nox require little and are a peaceful race, even then. they're far more spiritual minded than the science-minded Ancients. at some point, the Ancient telescopes pick up a signal, and decide to investigate. this leads to the discovery of the Asgard, potentially in a nearby Supercluster (there's one not THAT far away).

the Asgard are considered worthy and the three form an alliance. they exchange knowledge, culture, ideas, etc.


then, after a while, another signal is detected, but in hyperspace. after a while, a massive fleet drops out, and it's the Furlings. they were travelling across the stars when they found the signals of the Ancients, Nox and Asgard, and decided to check it out. the Furlings are deemed worthy and enter the Alliance.


after a while, the Ancients detect a signal. likely unbeknownst to the other races, they send ships to figure it out. once Destiny was on it's way and past pegasus, one Ancient figured out Ascension was possible and the Ancients began to focus on it. it is likely the Ancients spread their knowledge of it to the Nox, Asgard and Furlings. history makes it clear that either they weren't sufficiently interested, considered it impossible, or simply weren't capable of achieving it at the time, as none of them ascended.

then, some more time later, the Plague strikes. i consider it of Ancient invention, possibly a leftover from the genetic branch of their Ascension research. or the byproduct of a Gene Resequencer. anyway, the plague slowly and silently spreads, becoming immune to ancient self-healing. before the Ancients know it, the Plague suddenly mutates to be deadly and wipes out a large deal of ancients at once, and then aggressively spreads. some ancient worlds "lock their doors" to prevent spreading it. the Ancient empire is in ashes, and the few Ancients that remain, decide to use their Terraformer on Dakara to annihilate the Plague in a single, galaxy-wide blast. Earth is left untouched by the Plague, and is locked out from Dakara's program. the weapon activates, every stargate in the galaxy activates, and in a single blast all life ever has ended.

then, -and this doesn't even have to be programmed by the Ancients, maybe by the Nox-
Dakara fires again, but this time World by World. it's energy wave is altered to seed new life throughout the galaxy, and slowly completes this task.


i must say however, Tep, that we use the same points to come up with different ideas. i myself am not a fan of "they turn out to be ancients".

I really like your history of the alliance, its got similar themes as mine, I spent along time developing mine for Genesis so I have to say its a pretty good one. Like I said before, mutually valid, and I think us coming up with different versions from the same evidence is great. Also the "they turn out to be ancients" isnt a cop out, i know everyone things they are, but there is as much, or should be as much, diversity in the ancient civilization as their is within the human population of this galaxy. Ancients are human after all, so why shouldnt there be hundreds of factions and branches and religions and nations. They lived for millions of years, they werent all the same for that long, I always wanted to show that diversity.