Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[immhotep]

In so few words: it's a load of ********. No offense intended. A huge part of the fleets is world building, and that extends to the doctrinal, industrial and technological fields. Basically, you need to give us a good reason you need all those roles.
Also, you need to provide more detail, what's this neutron cannon, what do gravitic fins do (they're a B% technology, in SG inertia-less drives are quite mundane looking), etc.

Look at the Hidden Empire, check out the Voidfleet, when you submit a ship, you need more than a basic list of specs, you need to show at least a bit of how those specs work and what the ship's role is in general.

WOW

I very rarely agree with tom on matters based around ship design and I think this is the first time we have been on the same level. The bold part is the important bit. But I value ships based upon their historical and prose based design specs. To me a ship design can be as outlandish as you like but if you can justify it with a well written, coherent and valid context then you get my support. A list to specs does not make a ship, and if you can define its purpose then it has no reason to be in the fleets. There are alot of ships that have a very good history but lacking specs that were in the fleets. Mainly because thier role and thier purpose were well described and as such their specs could be modified depending on thier situation, perfect example, my hermes class. A civilian ship that had cargo, transport, personal, drop ship, military and diplomatic functions based upon who used it and in what context. It was our version of the alkesh, a mid range, mid sized all purpose ship used by everyone from standard parts and could be easily modified. I described it in those terms and it appeared in a wide variety of situations without any issue to its designated specs..

[Crazy Tom]

There's a first for you.

[Gormagon]

*Crickets chirping*

"Are you lisenan to da werds thet ah commin outa ma mouth?!??!?!

OLD SPECS! OLD TECH! OVERVIEW!!!! UNDER CONSTRUCTION!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA...........

JEEZ CRIS...
*Panting*
Any way. I will get to work on it.....working on it!!!!!!

Were do I put the NEW ships on the wiki? A new page or the Houjin page? And what should it be called? Arata Houjin'oukoku fleet?

[Davidtourniquet]

As Tep and Tom said (new double act maybe? ), the fleets are more than just here's a ship with some specs now use it, it's about being able to work with the other ships in the fleet. A justification of why we need that ship, you'll never get through on specs alone.

[Einherjar]

I would like to re-introduce the Karn, well a new version. Only a basic history and background, not stats etc.

Spoiler:

The Karn as a race of synthetic humanoids found in a distant dwarf galaxy, the purpose of the Karn is to survive, in order to do this they travel from place to place harvesting everything they deem usable. The Karn were not always this way they started life out as organic humanoids known as the Krakarn who had reached the peak of their society, but as their social and technological evolution began to stagnate a rift began to form between the controlling parties of their governing body. Soon a great war began which devastated their entire race, after a failed yet successful attack on a colony the Krakarn became endangered. A biological attack had drastically reduced the fertility of all, in order to survive the Krakarn began looking for a way to survive.
After years of research and development a small faction of the Krakarn created synthetic bodies to save and unify their broken society. In a full hardy leap they transferred their consciousness into these shells and re-entered into Krakarn society showing what they had become.

This new faction was rejected by the remaining people and in a way united all of the Krakarn socity, they formed together and attacked these creatures as they had become known. The Krakarn forced their old brethren out of their territory and caste them among the stars. Rejected, damaged and angry the out casts renamed themselves the Karn and hid.

For centuries the Karn built their own society, without resources of their own the Karn began attacking planets with the relevant and needed resources. They had fallen so far, from a respected and power race the Karn had become a plague. They stripped and harvested all they came across, using these resources they began to build a large armada. They harvested their home galaxy until all that was left was rock. Unable to expand further the Karn drifted into the dark of space. Launching scouts out amongst the stars the Karn are searching for new worlds to harvest. One such scout ship The Tau drifted for thousands of years until reaching a distant galaxy, sensing the bounty that awaits the ship burst into life.

[immhotep]

I remember the Karn! They were going to replace the wraith as our main enemy in pegasus after 1.0 ended. They were pretty complex though. I may check back with 1.0 for things about them. Did they ever get used? Or was it just a plan?

WB Ein, great to see ya!

[Einherjar]

Thank you for the welcome, I forgot to look back to the previous Karn posts so please ignore my previous post as I am going to look back and change the original to fit in with my new idea.

EDIT:

Looked back over the Karn (they are in 3.0 forum discussed) and they don't really work, so I will be using my new version of them.

[thekillman]

Tom is right *scrabbles it down on a "instances i ever agreed with Tom list" *.

shipbuilding is more than a list of specs. as i've been trying to show you (tom, the baseship is perhaps vulnerable, but there will always be stuff you can't just build on a cruiser. also it can be justified in some way.), design is not what you want but what you need. there are design choices to be made, like the choice between Quality and Quantity, but also the choice between overpowered and underpowered. the first consumes fuel like crazy is and is meant to perform. the latter is not and can last much longer.


in many cases it's not even a choice between, but rather a compromise. the Aggregator was MEANT to be powerful. it's a battle-changing ship because it was meant to be. but if you can hold it off, that sheer power becomes it's weakness.


the Deadalus is a relatively bland warship because it's not a warship. it's Earth's only ship in space and is meant to have a wide variety of roles and purposes. although this somewhat changed in the Fleets to a more combat-oriented role, i'd still consider it a jack of all trades.


Naval analogies work fine to quickly explain something but once you're past the outline stage, drop them.

And the Houjin are still under CONSTRUCTION.

outlines are what makes us quickly determine whether it's useful or not. i continue this debate, in stead of instantly shooting it down, because i recognize things in you that are very useful, like a different perspective, fresh blood and ideas. but there are certain things we have learned. a long list of races per fleet is a negative thing for one.

Were do I put the NEW ships on the wiki? A new page or the Houjin page? And what should it be called? Arata Houjin'oukoku fleet?

i think it's better if it's posted here. the role of the wiki is reference, to keep track of what we've done. it's meant to patch one weakness of the previous fleets (i hate the words "old fleets"), namely that at one point even we ourselves lost track of certain things.

Looked back over the Karn (they are in 3.0 forum discussed) and they don't really work, so I will be using my new version of them.

i remember my pitch of a locust-like race (which i named the Locust as a temporary name). they seem a nice idea but definitely need some tweaking. (though i don't need to convince you of this)

[Einherjar]

Going to do some more work on the Karn later on and post up with more information, sort of beef them up and make them easier to explain. I shall also post up the basic specs for the scout ship

[thekillman]

oh and i almost forgot: welcome back .


as to the Karn: i think that the "depleted the resources of their galaxy" line implies WAY too much power. i can totally see them as this scavenger race just drifting the void, rather deprived of natural light cycles, and natural environments. kind of makes me think of the Industrial age, which wasn't exactly filled with luxury desipite the massive advances done.

in fat, it even reminds me of the book Brave New World. really interesting read. in it, essentially Humankind has become kind of communist. humans are bred in controlled environments, and a single "mothercell" is cloned a dozen times over if not more (the lowest caste of humans was cloned into 72 "epsilons" if i remember correctly).

essentially Humankind exists in multiple Castes. Epsilons are the brute work force. not very intelligent, easily satisfied, and "trained" to be happy as an epsilon.

the Deltas are one step above Epsilons, being capable of more complex tasks. if Epsilons are conveyor-belt workers, the Deltas oversee that process.

Gammas are one step above Deltas, and are more intelligent and self-guided. if Deltas oversee processes, Gammas are the bosses of these "workfloor bosses"

Betas are almost like normal humans, intelligent beings with quite a bit of free will, as this is what it's all about. if Gammas are the bosses of factories, the Betas own entire corporations, are the pliticians and basically the highest guided organ.

Alphas are the rarest human by far. they undergo no cloning whatsoever, no persona alteration whatsoever. they are teached the history of humankind and the reason why things are as they are. Alphas are the World Leaders. it's revealed that one Alpha in fact questioned the system but came to see that, while not perfect, it was more perfect than complete free will. everyone is happy as they are. not an artificial kind of enforced happy. people are truly happy as they are as it's the only thing they know and will know.

[immhotep]

I just did a 18k post edit with the final act of the reaper war. I think that it might be useful for anyone who comes along in the future because that post effectively kills the reapers off completely and allows the universe to continue if desired without needing to end the war and involve writers and storylines who are no longer about. That was the actual end game all along btw but there were several battles and events in the process of being wrote that led up to it and never got finished so ive just gone to the end and rounded things up. If a 3.5 ever happens it can do it from a fresher page so to speak.

Tep

[thekillman]

i read it and it's made me cry. really. not in a cartoonesque, overdone sense of way but a tear definitely ran down my face. it's kind of like a full circle, in a story similar to what i consider the most beautiful story ever written

[immhotep]

Wow thank you, that means alot, I really only just wrote it but its been needed for along time, a bit of closure for those fleets and storylines that never got finished. That was more a eulogy to that era of the fleets. Maybe one day they will get another shot. For now its upto you guys here

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

Wow ... so ... yeah ...


I step out for a bit and suddenly y'all are tooth-and-claw.

I simply stick to my original stance: full embargo on new races and factions until we get our current storyline under wraps. Don't propose 'em, don't talk about 'em, don't debate 'em. Thinking about them 's fine, but don't clutter!


It's much better for all of our mental health if we all just work within the established universe for now.



(On the notion of Ha'tak numbers, a break-down may be found HERE, just to get y'all off this particular sticking point. See also THIS POST for ideas about how they are/ought to be used.)

[Gormagon]

As Tep and Tom said (new double act maybe? ), the fleets are more than just here's a ship with some specs now use it, it's about being able to work with the other ships in the fleet. A justification of why we need that ship, you'll never get through on specs alone.

k I get it now. I am working on the ships. Making them more detailed, giving specific roles descriptions e.c.t.

I am not trying to flood anything with new races....I have made races out the wazzoo in the past.


I remember the Karn. A little bit. Reading about them somewhere....

Sorry about my last post guys I was/am having a heck of a week....


Hebi class fighter(Serpent)

The Hebi class fighter was the result of the Houjin defense force requiring a fast, maneuverable space craft to compete with Kaizoku stun fliers. Developed by Yokuzaki armaments its purpose was to be a fighter interceptor, a fast craft good at shooting down missiles and other fighters.

Although suted to these tasks, it lacked when it came to attacking heavier targets with anything more powerful then a intense magnetic shield. To compensate, small fusion bomb launchers were added. These were replaced later with a limited shot fusion cannon. Advantages of the cannon over the bombs was that the fighter had less weight to carry, had slightly more space for other equipment, and the fusion beam could not be shot down like a bomb.

Later it was equipped with stealth technology to allow it to better compete with new Kaizoku fighters, who had been using various forms of stealth tech for years. With stealth technology incorporated into its design, the main advantage of the Kaizoku stun flier was eliminated.

The Hebi fighter still serves as the primary fighter in the Houjin space force.

Hebi fighter specs......

Well? How is that description?