Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[immhotep]

Just noticed 3.0 now has 18k post exactly, go there and suggest me something to do and ill edit the 18th k post with something amazing soon!

[Crazy Tom]

*raises hand* I just want to point out that I'm more like that cranky uncle that shows up every once on a while out of the blue.

Especially now that uni. starts tomorrow.

[Gormagon]

I got one of those^. Two actually.

I plan on putting some Houjin tech on the wiki at some point if no one minds. Just the tech that has been agreed apon for now.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

Tollan..Aschen....Furlings....what are you not doing?

The Tollan are more Fugiman's. Whatever you think I'm doing with the Tollan, you will be shown wrong by the end of my story (whenever that comes around ...). Trust nothing I write.

As for the rest, I have fingers in pretty much everything, just 'cause I'm trying to be the one who makes sure all the various story-lines get sewn together into a nice patchwork rather than a ratty old thing that barely hangs together.

[thekillman]

But im coming to realise that what you are creating is actually just a revised, modernised version of fleet 1.0 set in the MW.

again not too familliar with the first fleet. but there's no reason to assume that this is a bad thing. the only real mistakes the previous fleets had were mostly loosing oversight and IMHO pushing a few things too early to create a fleet too easily advanced.

in reality the Goauld tech level is actually a pretty darn high tech level, but it was always treated as the lowest.

So by 2.0 we already had the base of an empire minus the military which returned from pegasus with a significant technological boost from fighting the wraith for 20 years which allowed us to then take on the Aschen which in our absence had a military strength far beyond the Jaffa and the LA alliance, plus a tech base that was more advanced.

i personally plan to add a "new" kind of ending a war to SG: the Truce. the Lucian alliance is not an entity, it's a phenomenon and while it might not always remain as strong, and eventually might become a terrorist shadow of its current self, it's a form of expressing social unrest in the galaxy, using the leftovers of the Goauld.

Point is, not everything from 1.0 and 2.0 should be dismissed because there was alot of great stuff that we created. 3.0 I would steer clear of more, because that was more complicated and more tightly bound up with fleet mythology than show mythology, for the first 2 we were working more within the established universe and not our own.

there are many great ideas in 1.0. but personally i'm more integrating my Godrule into this Fleet. the idea that if we can pull of crazy stuff, why can't our enemy? the Ko'tak is merely one example. the assault on Langara will be another. tactics, and out of the box thinking are the two things Lord Za's faction revolves around.

i personally assume the LA would semi-forcibly thin out the more advanced human worlds to populate offworld mining sites, ship production etc. they'll connect planets, economies and flows of goods, beneficial to those planets and beneficial to the LA. it's not all light and shine, i plan to show more of Omari's faction, and he has a far more tight grip on his Faction than the far more brotherly, friendly and cooperative faction Za controls. and so, each faction uses a basic template, but fill it in on their own. it depends on what type of faction they are and what they want to achieve.

So how do you guys feel about the Arata Houjin'oukoku (Houjin) being a part of the fleets? Over all? As allies/associates of the "good guys".

i personally am not satisfied over their role. first off, their tech level is IMHO too high. i'd rather have them be less advanced, but have them advance completely on their own. a small, semi-realistic space empire with some offworld colonies (but not on pristine perfect worlds. more like the type of world you'd really encounter). it's better if their world is devoid of Nq/Tr/Nm. that encourages space flight and large scale space mining.


furthermore, they would have a superior economy to most other races, including earth. Machayo's faction would rival their productive capacities, but mass-producing hyperadvanced warships is a costly task. if money wasn't an option, Machayo's race would build 25 Aggregators per year in stead of about 5.

I let the crysalix in under this and curse myself so ill just stay neutral on this one.

i know. i don't blame you tho. no hard feelings .

i still find the concept intriguing but it's hard to find a non-uber application for them.

Perfect example of this in the old fleets were fugimans spartans, he took the thatus idea, made a race based on them, a new history and then had an independant storyline between the spartans and the aschen and then later on we mixed the spartans in with other storylines when we wanted really cool soldier types for a land battle or needed some extra firepower. So its about everyone contributing thier own storylines and then collectively patching together which stories go in to timeline at specific points..all based upon a mutually discussed war, date range, galaxy, tech base and context.

there's a place for Spartans in the fleet, not in that form perhaps but i don't see why a group of Jaffa couldn't have a similar, strict formation.

I'm actually doing most of the stuff with the Aschen right now, so any I'd appreciate it if any ideas were shot by me first.

i have my own ideas on them but i think it's slightly premature to go discuss it at lenght.

Houjin
Fighters. I came up with the main fighters they use.
Hebi class fighter.(Serpent)
Crew: 1-2
Armaments: 3 small particle beams. 8 missiles, varying types. 2 shot mini fusion cannon.
Defenses: Advanced magnetic deflector. Houjin armor. e.w systems. Houjin stealth field generator.
Propulsion: Inertialess drive matrix
Power plant: Fusion cells.

what do you mean by a Stealth Field. and what do you mean by "Fusion cells"


Cold Fusion exists, but given the nature of the RL experiments on CF, i'd say it has many, many design limitations. for large-scale and high-power applications it's easily beaten by Hot Fusion.

Machayo's race uses Cold Fusion as an energy-weapon powersource, as well as a power source for small military applications. it uses a platinum-trinium alloy as a catalyst with naquahdah microfibers for energy gathering and conduction. although more limited in use than liquid naquahdah, you're not carrying a potential nuke around.

Hot Fusion is used in large-scale reactors to power their cities Etc. their fighters use a high-pressure naquahdah-enhanced fusion tokamak reactor. micro naquahdah granules would explode under the neutron bombardment from fusion, and create millions of small high-pressure plasma "fronts" within the super-hot fusion environment. this "noise" would ensure you can fuse at greater speeds and lower energies, plus that you get extra energy from Naquahdah. this massively reduces the operational heat, increases the operational pressure and increases efficiency without loss of output or increase of input.

[Gormagon]

The Houjin are advanced yes, but not uber advanced. Just a little ahead of the Goa'uld. (I took out the phase devices.....for now. They would make them very powerful and escalate combat technology to much. But we will need them for the Shrin'yar invasion.) Their weapons are not uber. Their shields are not uber. Their hyper drives are only at Goa'uld level. Their sensors are pretty good. The bio engineering is realistic. Their weapon disabling devices are not really uber. Just clever. And we could make it so that they only currently work on most projectile weapons and some primitive energy weapons. As far as transporters go, the Goa'uld have rings. The Aschen have beaming pads. The Tau'ri have ASGARD beam transporters. The Gadmeer have transporters. Urgo's race had transporters. Their nanites are not uber. Just useful.

The first planets they colonized have been for centuries and have been built into picture perfect worlds. They have about a dozen ruddy colonies,(Comparatively) 4 protectorate races, and have strip mined 2 dead worlds. They do not have a large empire, they like to compleately secure an area before moving on, and the Goa'uld Domain stunted their growth.

Fusion cells, they are mini tritium/deuterium reactors. I can switch to liquid naquadah if you like....but I will need access to plenty of naquadah. The stealth field makes them impossible to see using radar or sonar, and blocks some sensors. Some. Anything of the latest Goa'uld design or higher can pierce it, for now if you like. How does every one feel about cloaks? The Goa'uld have them. The 2 shot fusion cannon means it has enough stored fuel in the weapon tank to fire two very powerful bursts. Basically 2 bombs....

[thekillman]

Their hyper drives are only at Goa'uld level

that's not "only". Asgard tech is exceptionally advanced. the Goauld in fact were quite excptionally advanced. Goauld should not be the norm. because while for current stargate stakes goauld speed is slow, they can still reach Pegasus within a year or so. for space travel, that's darn fast.

earth's tech level is what makes us powerful. that nifty asgard tech. but realistically if the Arata are at goauld level, they'd outproduce everyone in this fleet and dominate through tech and numbers.


the Tollan have tech but not numbers. the Aschen have a bit of both, being advanced but not having the godly Asgard tech. still, the average tech on their ship is of much higher quality than earth's and they can build that cheaper than earth.

[Gormagon]

that's not "only". Asgard tech is exceptionally advanced. the Goauld in fact were quite excptionally advanced. Goauld should not be the norm. because while for current stargate stakes goauld speed is slow, they can still reach Pegasus within a year or so. for space travel, that's darn fast.

earth's tech level is what makes us powerful. that nifty asgard tech. but realistically if the Arata are at goauld level, they'd outproduce everyone in this fleet and dominate through tech and numbers.


the Tollan have tech but not numbers. the Aschen have a bit of both, being advanced but not having the godly Asgard tech. still, the average tech on their ship is of much higher quality than earth's and they can build that cheaper than earth.

Mhm k. I always thought Goa'uld was the norm is the Stargate universe because most space fairing races seen had just as good or better tech then them.

But even so, the Goa'uld, well not united, had a massive production level and a huge empire. The Houjin have a excellent production level for the size of their nation, but they could not compete with the Goa'uld. That is why they were still building up their forces into this century.

Oh, I put more info about their society and some technology info on the wiki if anyone wants to look.
And what was up with Gate world forum yesterday?

[thekillman]

Mhm k. I always thought Goa'uld was the norm is the Stargate universe because most space fairing races seen had just as good or better tech then them.

it's because otherwise they would never have survived. the Tollan only exist because their weapons are so powerful. the Aschen have advanced unhindered for god knows how long. they might predate Dakara. same for the Tollan. and many other advanced races stole their tech.


if you were to put all of earth's history on a one-meter long pole, current earth would occupy about 1 micrometer of that length. so if you take any random micron on that pole, there's a million to one chance you get Earth's tech level. this is the "apes or angels" principle, or the idea that statistically, it's most likely we either encounter very, very primitive races or very, very advanced races. given the MAD principle, where an all-out nuclear war is most beneficial for any spacefaring race against a potential opponent, it's a matter of Natural Selection out there. oh and we still have the goauld and mass-eradication.

so that's why we have seen mostly superadvanced or non-advanced races: either they fell under Goauld rule or they were strong enough to survive on their own.


now there is one card rarely played and that's the Protected Planets Treaty card. it would allow a race to advance to any point inbetween Apes and Angels because the aforemention situation is not the case. there's no need for survival. we see this in the Galarans, for example.


although we know the Serrakin defeated the Goauld and freed the human population to become the Hebridans, i'm not sure to what extent "defeated" is a measure of strength as we did it plenty of times. we know from cases like " It's good to be king" that the Goauld sometimes wouldn't visit planets for thousands of years. it's likely the Serrakin executed a quick backstab on the local Goauld overseeing some quiet, backwater planet.

But even so, the Goa'uld, well not united, had a massive production level

are you serious? they had SLAVES make their ships. simple farmers. i have no clue how they did it but there's no real mention of actual shipyards.


oh and the medieval period is not some sort of black hole in our history. there was a lot of advancement, simply not on the scientific part. to my knowledge, quite a lot of myths and stories arose around these periods. actually, there also was development on the engineering part. to my knowledge, Longbows, crossbows and gunpowder were all invented in those periods.

although the Church blocked a great deal of scientific advancement and burned many science books, it also spread unity, spread literacy, and other good aspects among the people. it's just that it also was the period of the Black Death, and that's where our medieval view as a period of death and destruction comes from. besides, the Illumination was the period in which they invented the name "Dark ages".


i'm not sure if science can eternally advance without cultural advance. every day the scientist's opinion on what's good and what's wrong for you changes. even today i see a lot of abuse and misuse of knowledge. lots of people know lots of stuff, but they don't UNDERSTAND it.

i read this article about a concerned mother talking about how E-numbers were bad for you. well, the E-numbers (chemicals approved of by the EU to be used as aiding chemicals, like stabilizers, artificial flavor, etc) were invented to ensure that you WOULDN'T get crap in your food. they're chemicals proven to be safe for as far as it CAN be proven. if they're not safe, they defeat their own purpose.

the only thing a long list of E-numbers tells you is that whatever you're eating is extremely artificial. but for certain foods, certain E-numbers are a necessity.


it's a good example of science abuse, and i think it's a sign that Culture is once again getting behind on Science. i think it's also the reason that Sci Fi is getting less popular. there's enough Sci Fi in real life.

[Gormagon]

Like the Aschen, they were mostly ignored. Like you say, thousands of years can go by before a Goa'uld will visit an area of space. Few Goa'uld even knew about them, and they never threatened the empire. They were building up. They kept a low profile. And they are powerful.

The Aschen should be super uber then, if the predate Dakara. Dakara was like, 50-100 million years ago.

The Tollan were humans, it was mentioned in the episode Enigma. If they had been ancients it would have shown up on any tests and in advanced abilities.

And about stealing tech, the Houjin have gotten access to Goa'uld and Anubis Goa'uld technology, as well as the catch left behind from the aliens that brought them there.

Erm, how about Erebus? That was a ship yard. Delmak had ship yards. That planet from Upgrades had a dock for building the new super mothership. There are more too.

They had hundreds of Ha'tak and thousands of other ships. Remember reckoning? The galaxy was chalk full of little dots representing Goa'uld ships, and they had been blasting each other for millenia. They obviously had a massive production level.

And salves were just brute labor. Like at fast food restaurants, they could have used unskilled workers used for one specific task, an assembly line. Also, slaves were mostly miners. They probably had machines to do alot of the work on ships. And they have scientists and engineers, I.E Thoth.(Kull armor).

And what was up with the forum yesterday?
And how do I change the color of my profile page? I kept trying to make it red/black but it came out pink!!!! Sokar does not do pink!!! As far as I know..

[thekillman]

The Aschen should be super uber then, if the predate Dakara. Dakara was like, 50-100 million years ago.

source?

the best estimate is 5-10 million years ago. but we know from races like the Asgard and the Ancients that without contest technology stagnates. it's the downside of being an idyllic no-war race.

The Tollan were humans, it was mentioned in the episode Enigma. If they had been ancients it would have shown up on any tests and in advanced abilities.

it's been hinted at that humans in fact existed before Dakara.

And about stealing tech, the Houjin have gotten access to Goa'uld and Anubis Goa'uld technology, as well as the catch left behind from the aliens that brought them there.

i still do not understand why you want this so badly. this is just Introduction of a generic race basic template. a race advanced on it's own with a relatively small but well-established empire would have a strength other than technology: industry and economy. whereas earth would spend 10 billion on a space ship, the aschen could build the same kind of ship at 1/100th the cost.

similarly, your race, without that tech, being at a sub-goauld tech level, but well-established and self-advanced, would produce ships at a greater overall quality than Earth (without the Asgard ubertechs), at a much greater pace.

manning them is no problem. the crew would be more experienced at space combat than any earth Admiral. the overal tech level, integration of holographic technology, better calamity response technology, better redundancy, better material science, better construction science, better production science, it would all add up to a better average ship, at a much lower cost and produced at a greater speed.


a race with all the benefits of Goauld tech with all that tech integrated fully into society is powerful enough.


where Earth sends a BC, your race could send a battlegroup. and if you're really insistent on fighting an earth-like war, you can always add in that undervalued property of space-ships: size.


there's so much more to ship design than just to fill it with the most powerful technologies you have. remember my Infinity factor talk? your production factor would be orders of magnitude greater than earth's. you can dump technological shortcomings on the Production aspect.

Erm, how about Erebus? That was a ship yard. Delmak had ship yards. That planet from Upgrades had a dock for building the new super mothership. There are more too.

most of them were a bunch of engines linked to a superstructure to keep the ship afloat. i saw no massive factories or anything like that.

They had hundreds of Ha'tak and thousands of other ships. Remember reckoning? The galaxy was chalk full of little dots representing Goa'uld ships, and they had been blasting each other for millenia. They obviously had a massive production level.

no. assuming there are 100 ha'tak, they had *up until that point* about 7 years since SG1 started. that's some 14 per year. that's like 1 per System Lord per year.


multiply that by whatever hundreds you need, but even at 1000 ha'tak that's 10 ships per year per System Lord. that's nothing. these guys controlled hundreds of planets.

the relative production factor is to laugh about. well actually to cry about.

And what was up with the forum yesterday?

didn't notice a thing

And how do I change the color of my profile page? I kept trying to make it red/black but it came out pink!!!! Sokar does not do pink!!! As far as I know..

no clue





if you want some food for thought :


based upon how i'd like to see them.



for starters a small space empire. lack of naquahdah on their home planet has driven their need for space exploration. as Fusion is the only realistic alternative to Naquahdah for mass energy production, the Arata have advanced fusion technology.

since the discovery of the Goauld (goauld don't know bout them), the Arata have increased military expenditure with 400%, and a global defence organisation was founded.
lacking the sheer technological power, the Arata in stead designed a fleet specifically made to fight superior foes.


the Arata designed a handful of high-power ships:

Baseship.
the Arata Baseship is more of a mobile space-station than an actual ship. it's not just completely self-sufficient, but can in fact sustain, repair and maintain a fleet. it's the core of any assault group, well-defended and of immense tactical value. at the core is the most powerful Naquahdah-catalyzed fusion generator yet, purely to nigh-indefinitely drive the onboard factories, fuel stations and repair bays. although powerful, it can not drive the defensive systems on it's own. for this purpose, twelve high-energy heavy liquid naquahdah generators were designed into the ship, used only in battle situations. to smooth out power and to smooth out the transition between battle mode and factory mode, sixteen large hypercapacitors were put in to double the battle output for four and a half minutes. it takes the Fusion reactor more than a week to replenish this power however, although the same Battle reactors can do this in the aforementioned found and a half minutes.

aside from this, the Baseship is equipped with all the factories, refineries, shield-based multi-casting stations, recycling stations, repair bays, retrieval bays and crew quarters to maintain a standard battlegroup.

due to it's immense size, the ship has a unique, custom-designed 6-generator based shield. although less efficient and powerful than a single generator of equal total size, the shield system allows a dynamic load bearing system to transfer power to the most stressed parts of the shield, increasing the effective shield strength with some 20% while requiring no extra energy aside from running some computers and sensors.

for defences, the Baseship was designed specifically against ha'tak sized targets, as they would by far be the greatest danger. for this reason, the Baseship has multiple Fusion Hellbores, tapping directly into the Fusion Core. a cyclic accelerator allows a 40-second buildup of energy to unleash in a burst, or a single sustained beam at a reduced strength. similarly, Fusion Pellet Cannons use a series of small fusion pellets to fire high-energy plasma bolts at their target, without reliance on the main reactor aside from power. these cannons internally detonate the pellet, and the resulting fusion ball is blasted from the barrel. powdery naquahdah is injected into the fusion ball microseconds after forming to further energize the bolt, and three "field painters" induce a Kiron field on the plasma bolt for anti-shield properties.


to augment this plasma bombardment, the last weapon onboard this ship is a "Bounce" - type ion cannon. this weapon uses an alternating electromagnetic field to "bounce" an ion charge within. multiple magnets allow this "bounce" to increase in size and energy. the ions are then fired in the correct direction. in the center of the gun is a Field painter to repeatedly induce a high-energy Kiron field, and the discharged Ion Bolt has a devastating effect on shields compared to the sheer force-based fusion cannons. combined however, an Ion Bolt followed directly by a burst of plasma has a greater effect than the sum of it's elements.

the Baseship is propelled by Inertialess Drives, although it's sheer size prevents any quick movement. therefore, it's main purpose is support rather than assault.


Heavy Assault Ship.

the Heavy Assault Ship is a ship designed for short-term, high-firepower intervention. due to this, it only has a small, low energy, high-efficiency naquahdah reactor for basic power, directly linked to a hypercapacitor to deal with peaks in energy consumption. additionally, it has a low amount of spare parts and a repair crew trained and equipped for patching rather than full-blown repairs. furthermore, it is designed to require a small crew, with heavy computer automation. the obvious downside to this is a weakness for ECM.

the HAS has 3 Heavy Liquid Naquahdah reactors for maximum power per kilogram, and power per cubic meter. these too have an integrated hypercapacitor, allowing a quadrupling of output for the duration of 6 minutes. this is the result of having heavier weaponry than the power systems normally can handle. the HLNR's are spread throughout the ship to minimize power loss from damage.

the armor is a high-strength polymer-trinium weave, combined with a gold/naquahdah alloy weave and buckyball/fullerene mircoplating to form an extremely stress-resistant armor, at the expenditure of easy repairing. the hull itself is a nickel-superalloy.

the HAS has a single shield generator, specifically hardened to better deal with short, high-energy impacts at the expenditure of resistance to sustained attacks. beam weapons are thus the best weapon against this ship, however these are rare in the galaxy.

lastly, the HAS is equipped with three plasma accellerators spaced 120 degrees apart, all combining together to a single main barrel. this main weapon is a high-power rapid-fire plasma weapon, combining the benefits of a pulsed weapon with those of a beam weapon at the cost of size. the Heavy Assault Ship carries only mild CIWS technology, in the form of 6 pellet fusion cannons with underdesigned containment fields, creating a powerful, short-range blooming fusion cannon with a conical attack. the rest of the armament exists solely of Fusion Pellet Cannons with Naquahdah feed.



the Medium Interceptor is a ship designed to fill in the weaknesses of the Baseship and the Heavy Assault Ship. to maximize the ammo storage, the Interceptor carries only a single military-grade naquadah-enhanced fusion reactor, and a single HLNR for shield power.

for defences, the ship uses a series of linked pre-accelerated rapidfire low-power ion cannons, delivering a kiron-enhanced low energy blow to fightercraft. each ion cannon has three accellerators underneath it, each capable of storing a powerful ion shot. each feeds the same cannon, creating a much faster shooting gun than without pre-acceleration. the obvious cost is size.

the hull is a simplistic naquahdah/polymer weave, compressed into plating.

the main assault weapons are a series of pellet fusion cannons, augmented by plasma missile batteries. each Interceptor carries some 40 Plasma missiles, 48 500Mt Kiron-phased nukes, and 8 Ion missiles.

[Gormagon]

source?

the best estimate is 5-10 million years ago. but we know from races like the Asgard and the Ancients that without contest technology stagnates. it's the downside of being an idyllic no-war race.




it's been hinted at that humans in fact existed before Dakara.




i still do not understand why you want this so badly. this is just Introduction of a generic race basic template. a race advanced on it's own with a relatively small but well-established empire would have a strength other than technology: industry and economy. whereas earth would spend 10 billion on a space ship, the aschen could build the same kind of ship at 1/100th the cost.

similarly, your race, without that tech, being at a sub-goauld tech level, but well-established and self-advanced, would produce ships at a greater overall quality than Earth (without the Asgard ubertechs), at a much greater pace.

manning them is no problem. the crew would be more experienced at space combat than any earth Admiral. the overal tech level, integration of holographic technology, better calamity response technology, better redundancy, better material science, better construction science, better production science, it would all add up to a better average ship, at a much lower cost and produced at a greater speed.


a race with all the benefits of Goauld tech with all that tech integrated fully into society is powerful enough.


where Earth sends a BC, your race could send a battlegroup. and if you're really insistent on fighting an earth-like war, you can always add in that undervalued property of space-ships: size.


there's so much more to ship design than just to fill it with the most powerful technologies you have. remember my Infinity factor talk? your production factor would be orders of magnitude greater than earth's. you can dump technological shortcomings on the Production aspect.



most of them were a bunch of engines linked to a superstructure to keep the ship afloat. i saw no massive factories or anything like that.



no. assuming there are 100 ha'tak, they had *up until that point* about 7 years since SG1 started. that's some 14 per year. that's like 1 per System Lord per year.


multiply that by whatever hundreds you need, but even at 1000 ha'tak that's 10 ships per year per System Lord. that's nothing. these guys controlled hundreds of planets.

the relative production factor is to laugh about. well actually to cry about.









if you want some food for thought :


based upon how i'd like to see them.



for starters a small space empire. lack of naquahdah on their home planet has driven their need for space exploration. as Fusion is the only realistic alternative to Naquahdah for mass energy production, the Arata have advanced fusion technology.

since the discovery of the Goauld (goauld don't know bout them), the Arata have increased military expenditure with 400%, and a global defence organisation was founded.
lacking the sheer technological power, the Arata in stead designed a fleet specifically made to fight superior foes.


the Arata designed a handful of high-power ships:

Stargate wiki.

Actually, the Seed ships were supposed to have been launched launched tens of millions of years ago. And the Antarctic Stargate was supposed to be 30 million or 50 million years old. And even if it was 5-10million years, the Aschen would still be uber.

Source?
What humans besides the Ancients/Ori existed before Dakara?

I wanted them to be advanced because I wanted them to be. They were my race that I made up. And they can still do all of the stuff you mention well being at or slightly above Goa'uld level. I already took out phase devices, M/A tech, Fusion lasers, Tachyon cannons, and changed other things about them.

And just because they are a little more advanced then the Goa'uld....they can still have every thing you say. I mean, I would think being more advanced would help.

They do have a comparatively small empire, good industry and a stable economy. They only have their homeworld, colonies in their home system, 4 main planets, 4 protectorate planets and a dozen other worlds. 21 planets, 24 moons and 3 asteroid bases. (All heavily fortified.)

They have done most of their advancement of their own, the alien tech was only unlocked 50 years ago. Did I put that on the wiki? Ill have to check that. And besides Stargates/D.H.D's, they did not have access to significant sources of other alien tech until very recently.


They do produce high quality vessels, and I am pretty sure they can send battle groups were the Tau'ri can only send a BC. And Koku is valued differently then Dollars. (I am gonna need help with that actually...real Japan switched to yen in the 1800's.)

And about the Goa'uld ships, I am sorry but I just do not agree. They would not have lasted as long as they did as a galactic power(About 10,500 years.) without a good production capacity, especially since they were blowing each other up for most of that time. There were at least a 100 Ha'tak vessels, Id bet anything there were a ton more. 12-24 system lords, 60-100 ships each, they are system LORDS, then hundreds to thousands of minor Goa'uld who could have had 1-10 Ha'taks. (It really not that many when you consider, they had hundreds of worlds across a vast area of space.) Plus they had other ships. And, the Asgard could have sent 1-5 Beliskners to wipe out the Goa'uld millenia ago if they could not rebuild very fast. 1 shot K0 on a standard Ha'tak for a Beliskner. Source? Tollan ion cannons could do it.

I can incorporate aspects of your ship ideas however. Those are quite good.

[thekillman]

Stargate wiki.

which one?

What humans besides the Ancients/Ori existed before Dakara?

all life was eradicated by Dakara. but that doesn't mean there couldn't have been humans. in fact, earth's very history suggests that WE are pre-dakaran humans.

Actually, the Seed ships were supposed to have been launched launched tens of millions of years ago. And the Antarctic Stargate was supposed to be 30 million or 50 million years old. And even if it was 5-10million years, the Aschen would still be uber.

Atlantis left some 5-10 million years ago. Ayanna was 7 million years or so. the plague was shortly before that and from context, not all that long before the Plague did we have Destiny, as it was launched "at the height of the ancient empire" and "before they got buisy with Ascension". since the first ancients who ascended came from the Plague period, it's safe to say that Destiny is some 10 million years old.

I wanted them to be advanced because I wanted them to be.

they'll still be damn advanced. but if we go assume that Goauld is the norm, then before you'll realize we're into 3.0 again.


it's time we imbue some respect into advancement. the Goauld stole tons of technology from the ancients, and if we go make a race that advanced via natural ways, they'll be actually more like early ancient advanced. and nobody realizes that implication.

disrespect for how difficult and time-consuming it is to advance is merely the feeding ground for easy uber. especially since i KNOW Tom will just connect our failures and bring up a race that's incredibly powerful, but which i can not battle with logic, i can not battle with Canon, with nothing, for it's the culmination of our faults, including my own. and this is nothing against him, because it's his way of keeping us alert.


i appreciate out-of-the-box thinking. i appreciate originality. but the Arata have too much of what i've seen too much. granted, i've done it myself.

have you thought about their role aside from being another force in a complicated war? i backdoor introduced the Machai as Machayo's race, and i'll see what i'll do with them precisely. but IMHO the galaxy already had plenty of advanced human worlds so i wanted something different. their role is being a Lucian Faction. their purpose is a design study of earth. i utilize a "like earth unless noted" on them. they have war. they have famine. they have a piss poor continent with riches and divided by war. but their actual dynamic is different.

And just because they are a little more advanced then the Goa'uld....they can still have every thing you say. I mean, I would think being more advanced would help.

you fail to appreciate two aspects Stargate directly ignores. first off, the sheer power of numbers. secondly, the sheer power of industry.


advancement always helps, but it can hinder story-telling. the Machai are reverse-engineering the blueprints they get for the Lucian ships they build. they attempt to learn from them, as to improve their own technology. there's plenty of stuff to learn in the galaxy. giving the Arata all that for free is a grave mistake, as IMO it'll hinder their potentially interesting dynamic with other races.

[Gormagon]

The official one. The Ancient civilization has been around alot longer then 10 million years. The Official Stargate wiki agrees with this, their article said 60+million years ago they arrived in the MW. Other wikis and sites agree that the Ancients have been around longer, people I know agree, book authors agree, the Ancients are truly ancient.

Personally, I thought they had been around for 100million years.

How could we predate 10million years? I thought scientists believed we have been evolving from apes for a million years.

And I think the Aschen and Tollan are much, much(Much) younger then the Asgard or Ancients. Evidence for the Tollan, rudimentary Ancient knowlage used to modify shields made Tollan ion cannons ineffective. Also, I thought in Enigma said they were from Earth. Or at least Human type Humans. Plus, the only area were I saw them beat the Ancients was in practically applied phase technology.

Aschen, not advanced like the Ancients, or Asgard. You even said that in early posts, you said they were not on the Tollan level.

Ok, so what role in the fleet do you think we need for a "good guy" race?

We got plenty of villain's, the LA, Machai, (Good basis choice B.T.W) Aschen, Tka, Shrin'yar. For good we got what? Tau'ri,........ Asgard are rebuilding. Tollans, have they made an appearance yet? I thought we needed another good race. But I will try to think of another role for them....

Thoughts: How about a thousand years ago, the Houjin and the Machai were rivals? Fighting over a planet that both had found by going through the Stargate. Or something. They fought each other with primitive weaponry, until the Superior numbers of Samurai drove the "Evil spirits" off the planet. The Machai could hate their guts down to his day.



Ok, we can put them at a general tech level below *Hack*the Goa'uld.*Vomit*
*Wiping up floor*Your killing me man. Hey....theKillman.
But they get to keep the specific tech they have right now. Weapons, hull AND beaming pads.(Not beams, pads) I already got rid of phase tech. I do not want to have to go through everything again.

Edit-Actually, I have been thinking about it. The Goa'uld are kind of advanced. I think you may be right, not to use them as the low end of the scale. But we can use them for mid level comparisons. here are the building blocks of a tech scale.
Prehistoric-Pod people.
Stone age-
Bronze age-Bola kai
Middle ages.
Renaissance.
Industrial-Hoffans
WW eras-Kelowonans.
Tau'ri
Galarans-50 years ahead of us, estimate.
Eurondans-100 years.
Aschen-400 years ahead of us. Estimate.
Goa'uld-500 years ahead of us.
Tollan-800 years ahead of us.
Asgard/Ancients/Nox/Furlings-Really advanced.

Races that should be fitted-Gadmeer, Urgo's creators, Hebridans/Serrakins, Tobins, Dendredans, Martins people, Orbanians, Oranians, so on.

[Davidtourniquet]

Still, cool paper.

What about destinies F.T.L, that always reminded me of what warp looked like, but with more pretty colors. It may function similar to warp drive. But Star Trek warp drive fails compared to Stargate hyperdrive. How fast does Destiny go? Its taken, what was it, a million years to cross 2 billion light years? Its only moving 2000 light years a year. That seems kinda slow. (Correct me if I am wrong.)


Oh, and I will post info about the Houjin's social structure at some point, but I do not think i have the time right now.

That speed is on par with Star trek warp drive (In Voyager they said it would take 70 years to do 70,000 ly, so 1,000 ly a year). If I remember correctly, antimatter was collected using the bussard collectors at the front of the nacelles. One kilogram of antimatter will transform into 9x10^16 Joules of energy so you are talking about 20 Megatons of energy in a single kilogram, you could probably calculate how much mass and therefore energy is in the warp core. One thing you wouldn't be able to do is calculate the amount they use per warp drive activation. However, you can say that warp 9 uses more than warp 1 and it's most likely an exponential increase. Give me a while, I'll do some calculations.

In fact, no need, someone's done it for me:

http://picard578.blogspot.com/2010/0...warp-core.html

On the whole advance race thing, we done a reset to rid ourselves of the uberness that happened in 3.0. Now I realise that come here will argue that me bringing a group in from that universe kind of defeats that object, but the group has been very contained and not just given the tech that was at the end of 3.0. In 3.0, the tauri advanced too quickly for their age and that is the reason we ended up with the civil war, Shelton's team realised his and so this is why they won't just give away advanced technology like it's in a car boot sale. However, I have a plan for them anyway and for the Tauri for the end of 4.0 and into 5.0 (yeah, getting ahead of myself here). But we can't have superadvanced races otherwise it makes a mockery of doing the reset in the first place.