Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[immhotep]

I don't like the Nox being an offshoot of the Ancients. Linguistically (as per Torment of Tantalus), it doesn't make any sense.

Its the only thing that does. If the Nox are Ancient then they have had time to evolve thier advanced powers. If they are post Dakaran they could not have advanced to the point they are technologically as they are far far far beyond anything races from Earth have been at.
They have to be predakaran, which makes them ancient. They are not from Earth, and have advanced powers and incredibly advanced technology, they can only be ancient or a derivation of Ancient leftover from before Earth humans reevolved, most likely guided by the nox. The other option is that they are Lantians which left Earth 10,000 years ago, in which case they would still be ancient, but from a later period.

[thekillman]

Its the only thing that does. If the Nox are Ancient then they have had time to evolve thier advanced powers. If they are post Dakaran they could not have advanced to the point they are technologically as they are far far far beyond anything races from Earth have been at.
They have to be predakaran, which makes them ancient. They are not from Earth, and have advanced powers and incredibly advanced technology, they can only be ancient or a derivation of Ancient leftover from before Earth humans reevolved, most likely guided by the nox. The other option is that they are Lantians which left Earth 10,000 years ago, in which case they would still be ancient, but from a later period.

no.


the ancients came from -using some educated guessing- from another galactic supercluser. we know they have fast -they kept up with a ZPM'd odyssey- hyperdrives, plus we know the Ori used a supergate because travel via hyperspace wouldn't be very efficient. this means that the journey has to take more than a year, which places the location outside our own galactic cluster and even supercluster.


the ancients travelled for a long, long time. if Destiny truely is uberold and that FTL shows what kind of engines they had back then, the distance could've been crossed in a few thousand years.


personally this is how i see the Alliance.


-the Ancients are called the ancients because they're old. yes that's stating the obvious. thus, the ancients are the oldest. but that doesn't mean most powerful and advanced. considering what happened in their home galaxy, the ancients probably didn't disclose what happened back there and left their past vague.

-the Nox have a latin name. considering their powers, it's possible they introduced themselves to the ancients as such, using mental powers to bridge the liguistic gap. since then it's probably a name that stuck with them. i think the Nox are native to this galaxy, a race so advanced that they developed many powers, and were happy with the world as it was.

-the Asgard i believe were the third race to be introduced to the Alliance after the ancients settled in the Milky Way (the Nox wouldn't have had any desire for expansion since they seem to be rather happy), found in a different galaxy. the Asgard name seems an original name, not an Ancient nickname.

-the Furlings i believe were the last race to enter the Alliance. i think they aren't from the local group at all, but rather from a neighbouring one. there's one pretty close so..
considering the FTL capabilities of the ancients, they would've been able to lay contact.

the reason for the alliance would've been, as said in Tornment of Tantalus, to exchange knowledge. i think the Ancients were the catalyst for this alliance, simply because of their nature. during the time of the alliance, i think the lines between technologies simply blurred, creating a big technological "soup" where technologies overlap. the ancients invented the Gates, but i think all 4 races had the ability to make them. but as the Nox are peaceful and the Asgard have incredibly fast hyperdrives, it seems like neither saw the device for what the ancients saw it.

i think that the Ancients, being most scientific of all, probably created human-seeding projects for two reasons. one is, should they ever make a fatal mistake, they have a chance to undo it because humanity serves as a backup. second, by spreading human life they fulfill the ultimate purpose of life, which is spreading life further.

i do believe however that the other races could've spread life themselves, but probably not on the scale of the ancients. however i believe the Replicator war destroyed most of the asgard's endeavors in that field and the Plague probably destroyed a lot.

the Plague i believe is a consequence of the process of seeding life and the stargate network. quite simply, take enough diseases and combine their useful aspect until they eventually form a super-plague. it seems that while it could be healed, somehow the ancients still got wiped out. i think that eventually the plague adapted to the process of healing, making itself immune. however humans, being slightly different from ancients, might've had something in them that made them capable of being healed.


the alliance then eventually disbanded because of the Plague, which led the Asgard to retreat fully to their home galaxy, probably eradicated most of the Furlings -not the ones in their home cluster- and the Nox probably got killed off en masse, untill a single world locked it's gate. i think Dakara wasn't purely ancient, but given their respective natures, they probably were the only race who dared to continue research. driven beyond desperacy, the ancients probably locked the gate network, and individual worlds started to develop their methods of escaping the plague, some ascending, one planet developing a time machine, and one planet completing the Dakara weapon, unlocking the gate network and destroying all life but the Nox that locked their gate earlier, plus the ancients that escaped and the Furlings who built their paradise for galactic refuge against the goauld.

[immhotep]

-the Nox have a latin name. considering their powers, it's possible they introduced themselves to the ancients as such, using mental powers to bridge the liguistic gap. since then it's probably a name that stuck with them. i think the Nox are native to this galaxy, a race so advanced that they developed many powers, and were happy with the world as it was.

Your right that Nox is a latin name, a language closely related to Ancient, Nox is Latin for darkness or absense of Light. The Ancients evolved in to beings of pure energy and light when the ascended, Nox could be those which chose not to pursue this path and rejected ascension to continue mortal living. This would allow them to have been survivor of Atlantis that moved out in to the galaxy, and reform the Alliance with those who remained or had escaped Atlantis via ship.
What you are failing to crasp is that by all evidence they are human, and very advanced. Humans have evolved twice, once in the Ori galaxy and second on Earth (most likely guided by the Lantians or Dakara) Earth is the source of all humans in the galaxy and all humans from Earth are evolutionarily at the same point we are unless they have been experimented upon or changed deliberately. The only advanced humans with mental powers are either created or Ancient/Ori. If the Nox are human and have mind powers or the technology to recreate that level of illusion, city ships, raise the dead etc, then the only explanation is that they are some form of earlier human life predating Earth. Making them Ancient or at the least a group of Old Humans from before they were wiped out by Dakara. Its the only way they could have evolved their powers or technology to a point where they rivalled they were part of the alliance. Even the Tollan and Aschen are far below the Asgard ( the least advanced and youngest of the races) yet are the most advanced of the post dakara humans in the galaxy. The Nox cant be both Human and Modern. The most likely is that they are post Atlantis Lantians who chose not to Ascend and this has been stated to have happened by Merlin and Morgana and others. Plus the Tollan were taught how to build stargates by the Nox, meaning they have a very advanced level knowledge about them, it fits.

On the plague and the Asgard. The Asgard are far too young to have been around. We know that Atlantis left 1-5 million years ago due to the plague, yet the Asgard only started developing from thier human ancestors 30,000 years ago, advanced by the cloning process. Its most likely they came from Pegasus origionally and not the MW, as there were humans in that galaxy from the war with the wraith in a nice 100,000 year period prior to them supposedly developing thier new form through cloning.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

The Nox need not be human at all. Nor, indeed, need their name be Latinate! They have shown extraordinary powers of illusion; I imagine they could appear however they wished. And a set of sounds can appear in completely unrelated languages. In fact, I think the fact that they are called "Nox" is quite against the theory that they are ancients, given that the name "night" in no way describes them.

And the Asgard are humanoid, yes, but not "human" by any means.

[thekillman]

Nox might mean night as in "mysterious" / "shrouded in mystery"/ "Shrouded in shadows "

considering their powers of phase cloaking at will, this could be what the "night" or "absence of light" refers to, especially since cloaking means there is an absence of a being's light, IE you can not see him, sight goes via photons, you don't receive photons since they're cloaked and hence there's an absence of light.

while they appear humanoid, their abilities don't make them credible humans. also since they're the first race to phase cloak at will and seem to be one with their tech, i'd say this is how they want us to see them

[fugiman]

So other then the alliance debate what is everyone working on?

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

Just my prologue arc, and some plans for stuff later with the main war(s). If you're liking my stuff so far, keep watching; it gets better. If you don't like it ... well ... that's my style -- so I've got nothing ...

[blackluster]

So other then the alliance debate what is everyone working on?

Modified ha'tak model. I'm trying to learn UV maps for the next part.

Next chapter where Sons of Sobek have to evade Dorken's associates. I'm thinking about sending Adrian to the Red Dawn as well to reveal a bit more about what happened there, though I don't want to dwell in that character too much. Also considering a little cross-over arc with the Krull story. I did a little reference to it in that last chapter.

I'd like to do some sketches to for the Sons of Sobek characters as well as some merc modified Goa'uld weapons that may become prevalent in my stories and which others can reference if they'd like.

[thekillman]

Immhotep, you seem to ignore the possibility that the Nox have always been around.

quite frankly, we don't know WHAT they are. are we even sure they're flesh and blood?

i'm not a fan of the PanAnquieta theory. i think the Nox are more advanced than the ancients, but express it in a far, far different way.

as to the ancients themselves, i think they used time travel to become this advanced. i don't see how a race could evolve to be that intelligent when humanity itself was barely around 1 million years ago. let alone 50.

basically i think a previous race of ancients developed time travel and sent a signal back in time with all their knowledge. knowledge the current ancients have been using to get that advanced such a long time ago

[Davidtourniquet]

Killman, you can do a lot of things in 50 million years, we are probably about 500 years behind where we should be. In the last 10,000 years we've most likely come from bashing each other with sticks to being on the verge of travelling in space. I don't think the ancients needed time travel to get as far as they did.

[thekillman]

Killman, you can do a lot of things in 50 million years, we are probably about 500 years behind where we should be. In the last 10,000 years we've most likely come from bashing each other with sticks to being on the verge of travelling in space. I don't think the ancients needed time travel to get as far as they did.

they managed to cross many galaxies 50 million years ago. if they had that sort of capability back then, have they been picking their noses for 49 999 000 years?

[fugiman]

they managed to cross many galaxies 50 million years ago. if they had that sort of capability back then, have they been picking their noses for 49 999 000 years?

Or they focused on developing one technology really well, ie Hyperdrives, then letting the rest of their sciences catch up. I'm not saying they weren't advanced in other fields of science other then hyperdrive tech but they just weren't as advanced. It would explain all of their numerous labs and testing they did to try and get to a new level of technology

[thekillman]

you do know how ridiculously long 50 million years is? in 50 000 years we went from plucking berries to going to other planets. in another 50 000 we'll be travelling to other stars and perhaps across the galaxy. that's 100 000 years. the ancients had 500x that time, plus the time they had to get that advanced in their own galaxy

[Princess Awinita]

Fugiman; in reply to your Q on what projects we are working on, I am currently working on a fanfic series that explores the Furlings a bit. Basically I actually see them as two races, though they were represented at the time of the meeting of the four races by a feline, but there are two races.

When I have my database file ready for upload, you guy'll think I'm nuts, but wait, it makes sense when one reads some of my stuff. (namely my Ascension War Serial.)

[fugiman]

you do know how ridiculously long 50 million years is? in 50 000 years we went from plucking berries to going to other planets. in another 50 000 we'll be travelling to other stars and perhaps across the galaxy. that's 100 000 years. the ancients had 500x that time, plus the time they had to get that advanced in their own galaxy

Well then you explain it, I'm just saying maybe