Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[guppy338]

i would like more contact with races we didn't see the best bits of it like the Reetou or them smoke people why did we not try to get in contact with the Gadmeer

[Crazy Tom]

i dislike the idea of selective canonising.

*shrugs*What choice do we have?

tom, i simply dislike tech beyond our comprehension. i get that it's possible. but we just dont....need it. i want to avoid a 3.0 world where our ships have a 10x higher strenght/size ratio than other races.

As do I, but this tech isn't beyond comprehension. SG is pretty hard on the No Transhumanism Allowed rule. All the tech, through advanced, is within our ability to understand.
As to getting uber, we know uber is a relative term, I didn't dislike 3.0 because of ridiculously high figures, I disliked it because a lot of the tech wasn't fully used.

Asgard level shields are nice, but you can close the gap quickly with deflectors of some sorts, using AG projector, force field emitters, or whatever method for example, to force weapons fire off course instead of absorbing it.

The Asgard have the same problem as the other old races, their quite static. They've literally been around for hundreds of years, and their thinking has, how should I put this, well it suffers form tunnel vision, it's like the biggest generation gap in existence.

i think successful use of naquahdriah and asgard help and tok'ra help on our technologies is gonna do many miracles.
the alternative is getting advanced tech and having zero progress in those fields for many decades.

Either way, that's exactly what we're doing. Earth is not going to improve hyper drive technology, or shields, or anything, we barely understand all this stuff in the first place. What Earth is god at is taking old tech and thinking up new applications for it.

nope, i'd like to see a continuous learning curve. the asgard should hold back later on, and just observe what we do. help us out now an then, but from the looks of it they have an intergalactic empire to restore. i'd like their gene problem solved by them, so they can start artificial reproduction and eventually get numbers again. the Nox could have many interesting roles. i think the Furlings should be left for dead, the Ancients too.

The Asgard never seemed like the rest of the First Ones in terms of their non-interventionism. They like to get involved, if only to look over people's shoulders to make sure they don't do anything really stupid.
On the last part, I disagree, their gene problem has been plaguing them for hundreds of years, it's not going to be solved overnight, so their not going to be rebuilding a pan-galactic empire anytime soon.
Still, humanity has discovered a lot of useful things during the course of their exploration, so I can definitely see the Asgard joining the SGU, they can see that their isolation hasn't been of any help, and the galaxy has changed while they were holed up in Ida.

Basically, we're the Fifth Race, our little Grey buddies said as much, and they clearly like us or they wouldn't have given us nice tech in the show. In Short, I think it's the perfect way to put Earth in a more interesting storytelling position (becuase let's face it, we're not technologically advanced, and our industry while dense can't complete with an interplanetary economy).

i would like more contact with races we didn't see the best bits of it like the Reetou or them smoke people why did we not try to get in contact with the Gadmeer

The Gadmeer don't have any industrial base yet, they won't for a few decades at least, they do have to terraform that whole planet then raise the first generation to maturity after all.

As to the Reetou, yeah, we don't see enough of them, the Tok'Ra would have a field day if they could start joint operations with the Reetou.

[thekillman]

As do I, but this tech isn't beyond comprehension. SG is pretty hard on the No Transhumanism Allowed rule. All the tech, through advanced, is within our ability to understand.
As to getting uber, we know uber is a relative term, I didn't dislike 3.0 because of ridiculously high figures, I disliked it because a lot of the tech wasn't fully used.

i would love to do make it that way. SGU seems to do the same. i think that tech shouldn't be comprehendable.

[Crazy Tom]

i would love to do make it that way. SGU seems to do the same. i think that tech shouldn't be comprehendable.

We don't have a choice, the canon dictates it.

[thekillman]

we can change canon. why do you think i'd like to start from the beginning? why do you think i have such problems with SGA

[Crazy Tom]

We've had this discussion before.

We're not going to change the cannon, it's too much work, and it scares off possible contributors.

[the-alguroan]

surprised this place didn't sky rocket by a couple of pages. There was some teck that we understood what it did but not how it worked. Like the furling or tollen. i say we have more races where its like that, especially non human like races. though some humans like that would be nice

[thekillman]

We've had this discussion before.

We're not going to change the cannon, it's too much work, and it scares off possible contributors

we never ended that one.

besides, what is more confusing you think? either selectively blow holes in the canon or just start anew, starting from the beginning and getting everything right from the beginning?

and besides, we're always going with the latest submitted idea. the last submission was by Tep who wanted to go with selective canon. still i think my idea is better because there are faultlines in the story that aren't important now, but as we continue to build they will shatter the universe. Tom, you of all people can easily tell the errors, the Razg were uber beyond comprehension and nothing in canon prevents it. nothing in canon prevents someone from doing all sorts of cool stuff with beaming. you could create RKV's just by beaming up a bullet and then adding a quadrillion joules and have it then shoot away at high fractions of c.

[Crazy Tom]

Ah, but here's the beauty of that: endless storytelling possibilities. In a galaxy that's been stagnant for millennia, suddenly there's an explosion of innovation as the Goa'uld Empire crumbles and Human races are free to expand. This would be a time of great conflict, brush fire wars erupt left and right new technologies revolutionize the field of battle day to day.
Uber after all is relative. RKVs aren't uber is everyone has them. Look at Andromeda, ships accelerate at fractions of light speed, and fire hundreds of missiles per second, yet it's no big, becuase everyone can do it.
With so much stuff going on, there's enough action for everyone to grab a slice.

So we combine the best of both worlds: we make the application of tehcnology practical while keeping the stargate canon.

[thekillman]

yes..... aside from the fact that every weapon except RKV's are rendered useless. we might as well install ship-based lasers

[Crazy Tom]

Actually, their not. We know plasma weapons have certain shield draining proprieties, and there's no reason plasma bolts can't be accelerated to relativistic speed. Plus, they need no ammunition. There are complex trade offs to consider here.

[thekillman]

except shields are useless against RKV's, just as pretty much anything else

[immhotep]

No RKVS! They were what made 3.0 so uber it was pathetic. It was the reason all our shields and hulls were getting upgrades because as soon they entered the fray we couldnt just sit back and let everything get owned. If theres one thing to learn about not making a fleet uber is not mix RKV's with stargate, it just makes all the stargate stuff need uber'ing to compete. If you want to make the fleets realistic thats fine but do it within the realism stargate has already, ie canon technology, dont introduce hard scifi in to a universe where it doesnt fit and throws off the balence of technologies already present. It only leads to a far worst storyline. As RKV's arent in stargate and conflict badly with everything in stargate, lets just veto them, because seriously the might work, they might be a good idea, but they wont work and arent a good idea anywhere in the vincinity of a stargate.

[locutes]

what the hell are rkvs?

[thekillman]

Tep i'm on your side with this one, just so you know/

Relativistic Kill Vehicle, which translates to: anything moving at extreme speeds that's designed to slam into opponents.

can also translate to:

"instakill bullet".

No RKVS! They were what made 3.0 so uber it was pathetic. It was the reason all our shields and hulls were getting upgrades because as soon they entered the fray we couldnt just sit back and let everything get owned. If theres one thing to learn about not making a fleet uber is not mix RKV's with stargate, it just makes all the stargate stuff need uber'ing to compete. If you want to make the fleets realistic thats fine but do it within the realism stargate has already, ie canon technology, dont introduce hard scifi in to a universe where it doesnt fit and throws off the balence of technologies already present. It only leads to a far worst storyline. As RKV's arent in stargate and conflict badly with everything in stargate, lets just veto them, because seriously the might work, they might be a good idea, but they wont work and arent a good idea anywhere in the vincinity of a stargate.

Hard sci fi has one attribute that Stargate can learn a LOT from. well-thought-over devices. if you use common hyperspace travel, just hyperspacing a ship into a planet becomes REALLY easy. any significant engine is a WMD.


Stargate circumverts some of this:

-Hyperspace entry and exit seems only possible at low speeds. the pegasgard ship moved incredibly slow when it came out of that window. the replicator ship in New Order didn''t go that fast either. which means, that superfast hyperspace travel is simply impossible

-since pretty much anything comes with (mechanical? ) inertial dampeners, the engines are less powerful, but essentially so is the impact. there's been no real evidence that the dampeners can be turned off like that.


i think that without asgard tech, with naquahdriah and with more cooperative allies, as well as a greater deal of costumising and fitting in alien technologies, i think we can make a great fleet with a great story, with plenty of future potential and without need for rapidly ubering our technology.


i would like to see a kind of Neo-Asgard or Neo-Furlings or Neo-Nox. like we are Neo-Ancients, i would love to see a second evolution of asgard. not as advanced, still quite physically frail but quite intelligent.


i loved the idea of a Supergate, and i like the idea of Atlantis. but i think Atlantis has many flaws that simply need repairing. i think that we should investigate a galaxy with older ancients, instead of newer ones (at some point, that is).


i believe that if we start from the beginning, the Goauld might tire quickly. but what i think was great about stargate was, that when the Moral Enemy episodes became tiresome, we could also have "dont think just shoot" enemies. i'm talking about Jaffa (they are misled and we can't really commit xenocide on them) versus replicators (xenocide is fine). replicators were lovable, just for the fact that they could be shot, quickly defeated, yet they would simply keep coming. their machine nature made them awesome.


i've been thinking of a new "threat".


Locust.

the Locust are a very vague, shady race. they are never seen or heard. in fact, they might very well be extinct.

however their ships remain. each is a cyllinder-shaped mining ship. like our modern tunnel digging machines. they consist of segments, and each segment is approx. 1km in diameter and over 4 Km in lenght. a large conical-shaped mouth (the point piece is "inwards" ) with large cutter knifes and with the ability to rotate, cuts up asteroids for mining. particle beams shred the larger asteroids to small pieces. each segment is essentially a massive factory which processes the ore. the cutting mouth is made from neutronium. the outer hull is composed of many materials. the outer layer is common iron/nickel alloy. the further we get in, the better and stronger the armor becomes. the outer layer is approx. 1-5 meters thick, and the entire armor consist of several layers. the last armor is Neutronium, several meters thick, and above that is naquahdah/trinium/carbon armor.

each vessel is shieldless, still it's armor can take incredible hits and withstand direct nuking. the outer armor functions as a protector for the better armor. it's essentially "sacrifice" armor. nukes and powerfull plasma weapons rapidly loose their effectiveness, allowing the far more powerful armor to remain an ace up the sleeve. the neutronium alone can take several nuclear blasts. each ship is a pain in the ass to take down. don't expect "last man" esque defeats where just a few strikes causes the entire ship to blow up. still, all that armor comes at a price. these ships often deploy drones for defence: approx. 10 - 50 meter long sattelite-type weapons. each has a small engine, shield, and a big gun. think "AG-3 sattelite". the purpose of these drones are simple: blow up the enemy. since each ship is not just massive but also a factory, you can imagine that these things are mass-produced, even during battle.

lastly, the humongous amounts of material harvested is used for one thing: "replication". each ship builds an additional segment, and when sufficient segments are added, the ship splits itself. the split-off ship forms a new drill head.