Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[guppy338]

well I was just thinking that with 2004 it is season 7 or 8 and without us Ra would still be top dog and the civil war would not have happened Anubis would of got his a beating and lost or be weak you see it could work for 2010 as well

[Crazy Tom]

Wait, you mean having the SG Movie never happen?

That still leaves us with Hathor and Seth on Earth.

Both ways, it places Earth in an even worse position, as there would be no Goa'uld civil war, hence Earth would easily be subjugated once the Goa'uld found out about us. No, I think our best bet would be to go from what we know.

[locutes]

I think we should start in 2010 or somewhat earlier, with no real interaction with the Goa'uld and have got Abydos as a base, perhaps a few more where we have found Goa'uld tech. So we have at least some knowledge.

Yet the Goa'uld have not noticed us and have been in fighting. Then Anubis shows up, yet he is unable to take over the System Lords but is allowed his old seat back. In the meanwhile the minor Goa'uld that are repressed by the System Lords slowly emerge and by using allegiances with System Lords a real civil war starts.

Minor Goa'uld allies with Apophis and takes our Cronos. Minor Goa'uld allies with Heru'ur and starts a war with Yu. Anubis senses a possibility for advancement, and attacks Ra, aided by Apophis who are at the same time also fighting each other. Something like that. So we start in a Galaxy with allot of Goa'uld fighting the other Goa'uld.


Why would a System Lord ally with a minor Goa'uld with power, this minor Goa'uld with some new tech (obviously for they have to survive, are not as arrogant etc) and tactics give that one System Lord the power to defeat a rival, an opportunity no self-respecting Goa'uld will or can pass up for if He/She does not ally with that minor, another one will take his/her place.

[thekillman]

tom why do you assume that the timeline would remain the same while earth's timeline is not? i disliked the uberkull, more moderate would be better

[Crazy Tom]

Because some events are independent of Earth's interference. And once again, we're totally re-writing canon, then what? Does anyone here actually have a good idea for a storyline?

And the Goa'uld version of infighting has been going on for millennium, it's not outright war, more like skirmishing, it was the death of Ra that made the Goa'uld so jumpy, as he used to keep them in line. Anubis would not have gotten his seat back, he was Ra's arch-enemy.

As to the Kull, we never saw one hit by artillery or HEAT missiles, so they're probably not that hard to kill with heavy weapons, it's just that the Goa'uld don't use heavy weapons.

[locutes]

well then Anubis could launch an attack at Ra, Apophis might aid him or something. Perhaps one simple thing a human team does shifts the balance of power away from Ra.

be creative

[immhotep]

Just a quick reply to tom, we should have beaming tech by this point and even if we dont we still have enough ring platforms for access to not be an issue. Plus we would have ships at some point making transport even easier. I think Earth developing a shuttle along the lines of the Cargo ship would be a great idea so that we have a method on insertion from space without having to rely on larger ships or alien races. Just a dozen cargo ships stolen would do the trick in giving earth the flexibility to do what it wants in terms of space exploration without it making us uber.

[Davidtourniquet]

Davidtourniquet if we start a new human race then we first need to be right them a home world and a history and behaviours and then other races and their histories behaviours. On top we need to come up with a enemy their technology, behaviour motives and ships. Then the galaxy and how it works.

I think the others agree that that is too big a job for 9 or 10 people some who probably are not good writers the others can tell you without spell checking my messages 2 or 3 time you cannot make heads or tails of it.
so I probably will not be weighting. it is just too big of a job and i am not good at detail so I have left a lot out.

It is far easier to adjust cannon events in a way to fit are story like thekillman said we could make a slightly different way, to keep the toc’ra queen alive for example they found her on earth along with Osiris and Isis.

if we do the new generation of people the very essence of earth and the SGC would be lost and many of the people debating on what the fic is going to be properly will not take part.

Welcome to the fleet, we've been doing that for the past 3 fleets: thinking up new races, new homeworlds and new enemies. Tom, the tech maybe lying round the local universe like the ancient tech was, but it won't be accessible to the new race of humans. The essence of the SGC was lost in the previous fleets, in the sense there wasn't one, as the tauri were out there. The fleets aren't a typical fanfiction, they more than develop the story, they show how we have developed from a small backwater planet that no-one cares about to one of the biggest civilisations in the galactic history. I also don't like the idea of going back and tinkering with the SG universe. We've always had an alternate storyline to the latter events of SG1/Atlantis (mainly because the first fleet was set around the time the Ori showed up). The mythos is still there and with a new group of humans, a new mythos can be opened as well.

[guppy338]

We've always had an alternate storyline to the latter events of SG1/Atlantis

yes but we have always used the cannon as a guideline

[Davidtourniquet]

Not really, the events after and including unending never happened in the fleetverse, that's including Atlantis and Universe. The Asgard never committed mass suicide etc etc.

[thekillman]

idea for a storyline?

after we got the gate operational, we dialled ra's homeworld. after the initial recon teams is missing, a rescue ops is formed to get them out. the team is found in hiding, they merged into the population and couldn't activate the gate without people getting suspicious. after some fighting and an uprising, Ra is killed. in return for equipment, Earth takes the newly acquired tech with them.


aside from finding nice artefacts and weird races, we go explore the galaxy further, and fight goauld. we find them to be versatile. due to Ra's death, we get a powervacuum. Apophis and Sokar, the two nearest goauld, go to war over the remains of Ra's empire. during a mission, we discover the Tok'ra, help them put the two against eachoter into a big battle. since the Tok'ra are low on ships, they bring some engineers aboard our barely finished Prometheus-class, and use that to go and fight goauld.

the second year, we deal with an invasion force, discover Altairans, help the asgard, etc. follow the big lines of SG1 but not directly copied. essentially, most of the storyline would be fighting goauld, earth scavenging new tech, and helping people like altairans and such to go kill more goauld, deal with the consequences of power instability. eventually Anubis returns, but not as half-ascended. in his desire for revenge, he constructed a new fleet secretly in a far corner of the galaxy, with Kull that aren't immune to everything, with ships that are new and quite powerful, etc.

we help the asgard with reese or so. the replis are trapped for a while, and the asgard return a favour by sending a battlegroup, to help kill anubis in a big battle.

in the aftermath, baal upsurps a lot of Anubis' power, and continues the trend of renewal. the FJN has formed by now, the LA has formed, and a new enemy, using the goauld's knowledge in their own tech, like earth has done. the Hebridans use hyperdrives now, while the Langarans learn to use Naquahdriah better.

[lord groovy]

after we got the gate operational, we dialled ra's homeworld. after the initial recon teams is missing, a rescue ops is formed to get them out. the team is found in hiding, they merged into the population and couldn't activate the gate without people getting suspicious. after some fighting and an uprising, Ra is killed. in return for equipment, Earth takes the newly acquired tech with them.

They could also steal a little amount of naquadah to improve their bullets and explosives and be a little more effective against Ra.

But if they want to acquire Ra's tech, well they should avoid nuking his ha'tak. Since you hate giving easy ubertech for Earth, you could at least deal enough damage to make it improper to space flight but keep the main systems intact.

Or : Ra's actually went to Abydos on vacation (it's the farthest planet from any Goa'uld territory). That would mean that after landing his ship, he would probably start deploying his troops and organize trips to the other villages on the planet to collect the naquadah.

There should then be some kind of outpost (maybe a mobile outpost) or warehouse somewhere on Abydos, full with teltaks, deathgliders and weapons. We could still nuke the mothership and keep the all that tech.

Just a quick reply to tom, we should have beaming tech by this point and even if we dont we still have enough ring platforms for access to not be an issue. Plus we would have ships at some point making transport even easier. I think Earth developing a shuttle along the lines of the Cargo ship would be a great idea so that we have a method on insertion from space without having to rely on larger ships or alien races. Just a dozen cargo ships stolen would do the trick in giving earth the flexibility to do what it wants in terms of space exploration without it making us uber.

I think something like a bigger version of the tel'tak that could also serve as a mini-mobile base on each mission.

It would retain the cloak and the rings, borrow the weapons of the death-gliders and maybe some missiles.

[thekillman]

i hate easy reverse engineering. realistically, if we got drones by season 1 of SG1, we wouldn't have gotten close to reverse engineering by s5 of SGU.

anyway, i do think Energy Weapons SHOULD be reverse engineered by earth at some point. earlier than in the show, so we don't get insta-uber APBW's (i love them, the writers just don't know what to do with them)

i think nukes and nuking and missile ships should play a bigger role than before, with Naquahdriah being pivotal in earth's attempts at being powerful. a way of cheating, so to speak. yes it's instable, as Jonas said the instability exponentially increases. which means that it's predictable, which means measures can be taken to account for instability. Anubis' 10 minutes of dedication to get it stable aren't enough. i'd like the Langarans (quinn's people) to grow more and more dependant on it, also learning to use it faster than earth does.


back to nuking: since we would need maximum power to the shields in order not to get killed by goauld, we have little power left for energy guns. nukes are an easy alternative. spam them a la No Mans Land, and that should do the trick. at multiMT levels, and goauld shields being some 500MT worth of energy(IMO that's reasonable) , that should be done fairly easily.

our shields should be some 100MT or so in strenght, which still is quite a lot of energy.

i'd like to see the Jan'tak class here: with al'kesh being some 50 meters, a Jan'tak would be 200-300 meters in lenght. it would have a combo of slow-fire high-energy guns and quickfire low-energy guns. it can switch between the two but not fire all at once. i think performance should be roughly like our own prommy.



as to earth: if we activate the gate in 1990, we'd have nearly 20 years of research on shield, hyperdrive, energy weapon, and sensor technology. i think the goauld tech on the 5 worlds should be fairly outdated to further reduce the level of complexity. with ra's demise, we get a notch higher. war-like goauld should have better ships and wartech, the more peacefull kind should have other areas better, and goauld of shadows, death, etc should have better cloaking tech.

i think a scavenger nature would be cool: essentially, the Prommy every now and then finds something cool and incorporates it. say, a goauld-level hyperdrive from a Jan'tak type ship, or a cloak, some energy weapons, or something like that.

[Crazy Tom]

But the fleets need direction, if we just throw everything out, we're flapping about with no idea where to go.

I'm with Killman on the nukes, they are a great force multiplier. Earth in SG isn't special becuase it's heavily populated or relatively high tech. I think Humanity managed to accomplish so much in so little time because we're so young. All the other races are old, well developed, they've settled down into comfortable rhythms and patterns, the Goa'uld in fact are big on the idea of things lasting a long time, the Egyptian empire was powerfully but also very static, which gives us a glimpse into Goa'uld values.
Same thing with the Tok'Ra, they all come from one queen, all share the same beginning, the Tollan are all unified, the same cultural template. The Nox and the Asgard are old enough for their societies to have settled down into uniformity.

Earth on the other hand is tiny rock where hundreds of different cultures are bumping heads all the time, there's a constant drive to innovate and adapt. The Tollan were far more advanced because they had a focus Earth could never have, they all shared the same ideals and could work together towards common goals. On Earth on the other hand people don't have that coherency, and it's more productive to adapt existing technologies and methods than to invent new ones, leading a variety of uses for the same technology.

Thus, the Tollan create Ion Cannons that can destroy a Ha'Tak in one shot, but are helpless when that ability is counteracted, while Earth can send through a half dozen flatbeds with naqudah enhanced STV missiles and take out the vanguard of the Goa'uld attack (also earns us lots of points with the Curia).

The point is, we don't need to go back before the show, an anchor point from which we can diverge would be best, the same way the initial fleets started form the Ori war, we need some place we can nail down and then do our own thing.

[guppy338]

One nuclear missiles at the end of SG1 season 1 didn’t we nuke the shield of a ha’tak and it did nothing and the nukes was enhanced with raw Naquadah and we do have energy weapons now lasers

And normal nuclear warheads that the US military use are 375 kilotons. With that you have to factor in kinetic force of it hitting the shields and it is not going to be nowhere near a megaton. The Naquadah would bring it up to maybe 700-750 kilotons max but no more the only substance that could bring it high enough is Naquadria but it is only on two planets so far. Given the nearest one is 21 light year away.