Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[Davidtourniquet]

Well current shells used in railgun tests are 3.2kg, which are accelerated to Mach 7. That's where I got the value from.

[bradly08]

how would we get all those beam nodes?

That I am going to leave to the Story writers. IMO they would be got through Todd, in exchange for us returning him to power.

[Princess Awinita]

Princess

-what's with two models?

-seems small

-arbitrary speed in space

-way too expensive and exotic armor (what's with all the naquahdah?)

-way too cheap


second model:

-cheap, too cheap

-arbitrary void speed

-ARHG what's with shields?

I'll answer as best I can before bed. simply as I can too

Windfire model answers:
Two models because I made them both and thought to put them both on the table
The smaller the better imo
What mnakes you think there is expensive armor? I never listed Naquadah as actual armor plating IIRC there is very little NQ in it if any at all
Speed in space is a given, based off SDO's figures for speed measuring, meaning that if you had the need to, Windfire models can not only thread the needle, but also string it and sew a complex web.
*faceslaps self* Why is it that everyone thinks things are to be EXTREMELY costly to the point wherein any company taking up the risk of creating even ONE fighter that survives its first mission wont do it? The fighters I have made are cheap yes, but they are NOT expendable craft either. Each is made with a role, or mission profile in mind.

Startail model answers:
see first answer for Windfire
see cost factor reason for Windfire
Void = space, once again see speed answer for Windfire
Shields, see reason for costs for Windfire and notes below

To sum it all up killman, when a fighter surivives its mission, the mission is considered a success only based on number of fighters returned over number of mission objectives completed. this includes all missions, even planet based ones. The more fighters returning from a mission, the better a mission is considered a success over failure, for example a single fighter in the mission persei is given a twop seat craft to carry one prisoner, if that craft is lost in the mission, the mission is considered a failure. Shields for the startail model are required to keep a rate of fire going when main railgun dies from lack of reload. Shields are also there to keep impacts from other fighters to a low and also give a speed boost when shield power is dumped to engines, thus enabling the tiny craft ot escape capture.

Al;l in all, keep the costs down as much as humanly possible and BOOM< when the fleet is gaining ground the costs may go up. But until that time, I'm working to keep costs as low as possible.

Blacky, I'll reply later to your points

[bradly08]

Ok here is my updated version. Many of the problems have been addressed and some new weapons have been added.

Spoiler:

Name: Hawk series
Type: Multi-purpose
Role: Intercept and destroy enemy fighters/Gunships/Ground positions
Classification: FS-100
Manufactures: BAE Systems
Lockheed Martin
Sukhoi
Cost: $239.7 million each
Operators: UNEC Space Forces (USF)
In Commission: 2022-Present

•General characteristics
Crew: 1 (Interceptor variant)
2 (Ground attack Variant)
Length: 26.8m
Wingspan: 18.3m to 17.16m
Height: 6.5m

•Performance:
Maximum speed: Mach 5.5 (atmosphere)
Cruise speed: Mach 3.5 (Atmosphere)
Range: 2,080 miles (In atmosphere)

•Propulsion:
2x SABRE derived VTOL Engines. (Allows craft to reach orbit and allows for VTOL) $46 million
2x VASIMR engines (for use outside of Atmosphere only.) $56 million each
1x Inertialess drive (Based of the drive used in the death gliders, it minimize effects of G-forces on pilot and fighter.) $2 million
4x manoeuvring thrusters. (These allow the craft to manoeuvre in space. It uses and Inert gas held at very high pressure)

•Power-Plant:
1x Mk. I Naquadah generator (Powers VASIMR engine and various electronics) $7 million
18,000 lb (8,200 kg) internally held fuel tank (For use in atmosphere, it is provides the fuel used in the jet engines and it also serves as a back up should something happen to the Naquadah generator)

•Armament:

Interceptor package:
GAU-8 Avenger (Fires Tritium pointed bullets) $4.2 million
4x internally held Vympel R-27P Mrk II (An Anti-radiation missile, it is designed to detect and target and enemies radiation signature such as radar or engines. It doesn’t trigger radar warning receivers, conferring a measure of surprise.)
4x internally held AIM-120 AMRAAM Mrk II
2x externally held AIM-9 sidewinder Mrk II

Air to ground package:
GAU-8 Avenger (Fires Tritium pointed bullets) $4.2 million
2x internally held AIM-9 sidewinder Mrk II
4x externally held Hardpoints
2x internally held GBU-39 Small-Diameter Bomb

Note: all missiles are modified with a Naquadah warhead and use of electro-optical imaging targeting system. This allows it to target specific points on the enemy such as cockpits and weak points. This allows for maximum damage.

•Airframe:
1.Forward variable-sweep wings (Enables the fighter to be extremely maneuverable at subsonic speeds, while maintain this at super sonic speeds. Wings sweep forward when fighter enters orbit to lower profile of fighter.)

2.Airframe made out of mixture of Carbon-nanotubes and Trinium covering vital areas. $27 million

3.Body of fighter similar in that of the F-22, thus keeping most of the stealth. Whole airframe coated in classified radar absorbing material. $3 million

4.The Cockpit is covered with a special type of glass that is extremely tough. It also can be polarized allowing a heads up display to be placed around the cockpit. (E.g. if the pilot looks left towards an enemy; Data on the enemy such as kill chance, distance, and type of craft is displayed next to it, allowing the pilot to make quick decisions on whether to engage that enemy. $5.2 Million

Targeting system:
1x Lockheed martin/Tech con system (Using a combination of radar, heat sensors this system is able to pick out a target at 200 miles. When multiple enemies are detected, the system calculates the highest kill chance of each enemy based on position, type of craft, vector ect. It then informs the pilot via their heads up display of best target.) $11.2 million

•Other Technology:
1x BAE ejector system (Making use of the Wraith culling beam, this beams and stores the pilot in “black box” and is ejected from the plane in milliseconds. It then transmits a signal for it to be collected by friendly ships in the area. This system is separate from the rest of the fighter and only activates when the computer concludes the pilot is at risk of death) $5.6 million

1x Lockheed Martin Flight Assistance System (Based of the Eurondan Aero-fighter weapons system, the pilots helmet displays everything the pilot needs to know onto Heads up display on the helmet. This enables the pilot to see everything they need about their fighter to effectively fight.) $7.3 million

1x Central Optic Network (This system used optical fibres to transfer data from the sensors and other systems to the pilot quickly and effectively. It also allows data to be transferred to other fighters and ships, allowing sensor and targeting data to be sent from ship to fighter and vise versa. When fighters are working in squadrons, it allows each fighter to send each other vital data, thus increasing the team’s effectiveness.) $12 million

1x Anti-missile system (Using Chaff and flares to confuse and avoid missiles)

History:
As various defense manufactures began using alien technology and incorporating it into their systems, the aircraft industry fell behind. The IOA (Before it disbanded) refused to fund a new fighter, believing that the F302 was more than capable. Various experimental fighters were built during the period and even though it showed new designs could out perform the F302 the IOA refused to fund. It was only with the setting up of the USF that a window of opportunity opened. The USF looked at the various designs and opened up the challenge to design a new fighter to replace the F302. BAE, Lockheed Martin and Sukhoi came to an agreement to work together so to reduce the cost to each of their companies.

The X-100 Hawk series began designing in 2015 and an experimental prototype was built in 2019. This prototype exceeded all expectations but did have some problems with the VTOL SABRE engines. After a further year fixing these problems, the design was shown to the committee overseeing the challenge and was accepted. Because this fighter was so advanced, a treaty was signed at Paris, stating that any country who buys the fighter can only use it for planet defence. If any party broke this then the USF will engage and destroy the fighters.

Construction began in 2020 and the first squadron was set up in 2022 at Tyndall Air force base in Florida. So far 132 have been built with a further 969 planned.

[Davidtourniquet]

Killman a Mach 10 100g round will impact with an energy of 0.5 MJ not 10 MJ.
Also you have 1280 fighters but have only distributed 380 of them?
Your projection technology: is that basically the same has they used on the Aston Martin in the James Bond film Die Another Day: basically thousands of cameras that take an image of the surroundings and reflects that image onto the hull which is made of a reflective polymer rendering it invisible to the naked eye, cause if it is, that's something I forgot about lol.

[thekillman]

no it's the same as the tech from Bounty

[Amann]

so when will we start?

[bradly08]

so when will we start?

Not for a while yet unfortunalty. we are decideing the fleet make up atm

[thekillman]

Your projection technology: is that basically the same has they used on the Aston Martin in the James Bond film Die Another Day: basically thousands of cameras that take an image of the surroundings and reflects that image onto the hull which is made of a reflective polymer rendering it invisible to the naked eye, cause if it is, that's something I forgot about lol.

in more detail:

basically it houses a few dozen projectors which generate a hologram around the craft. of course there are certain limits to size etc, and it probably can't produce a proper image at high speeds (due to the turbulence) but it'll manage. it's more of a poor man's cloak to hide this hyperadvanced space fighter from the average joe. like how SGA-1 always cloaked the jumper when exploring, the Aethon can disguise itself.

[bradly08]

Killman, after going over your own specs, I have some questions:

1.You have said very little about sensors other than advanced. what are you using?

2.you have chosen railguns as your Gun. do you really thing this is a wise thing as it has been shown previously that railguns offer no real advantage in space and are massive power hogs.

3.You have talked about passive and active sensor jamming? how exaclty will this be done and what kind of sensors are you jamming?

4. what kind of "nuke" will you be using?

These are just a few thing I have picked up on and IMO need cleared up.

[thekillman]

1.You have said very little about sensors other than advanced. what are you using?

infrared, Radar and Lidar
probably includes this

also basic sensors (both internal and external) like fuel meters, speedometers, accellerometers, altitude detectors, distance measuring equipment and all the other stuff in an aircraft.

and this

2.you have chosen railguns as your Gun. do you really thing this is a wise thing as it has been shown previously that railguns offer no real advantage in space and are massive power hogs.

massive is relative. the Mark I generator provides much more power than my railgun really needs. also when has that been shown? besides, a combo of maneuvering rockets and CIP will increase the hit-chance with more realistic space movement than that portrayed in SG.

additionally the railgun will be a powerful system but it's the missiles that are the primary armament.

3.You have talked about passive and active sensor jamming? how exaclty will this be done and what kind of sensors are you jamming?

not an expert on this sort of stuff, but basically similar to what the asgard used in First Contact: an EM field, the sensor confusion drones, etc. additionaly when SG talks of sensors there seem to be many seperate ones involved, and part of the sensor "jamming" is the stealth material.

4. what kind of "nuke" will you be using?

depends on the one at hand, but i'm thinking of a Mark I through III. (so 50, 80 or 100 Mt's)

[bradly08]

Ok I was really bored today and so I did a few drawings. Please note that my drawing ability is very, very bad and these are only for you to get an idea of what my fighter looks like.

Note: Large image

Spoiler:

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

a few changes:

Name: Aethon

You named your fighter after a horse?

Type: Fighter
Role: Multi-Role Combat Aircraft.
Baseline cost: approx. 212 million (250 extra for a hyperdrive)
Designation:F-100

Again, it should be FS-100.

Planned::1,280 (60 per colony, 200 for ships, and 120 for Earth)

Good.

Propulsion:
-2x Scimitar (with rocket components)
~ hypersonic, hydrogen-fueled, air breathing, combined cycle rocket engine/precooled air turboramjet.[/i]
~this probably needs a link: this link
~another
~in far less words, this engine is used for atmospheric flight and used to get into orbit.
~Atmospheric Flight: 1500m/s.
~Orbit is reached within 4 minutes

Just a suggestion: add thrust vectoring.

-2x VASIMR-derived engine.
~this engine is used for space-travel.
~space flight speeds in SG are dubious anyway. it'll outmaneuver and outrun a Dart, although this is rarely done considering the fuel spent.

Okay

-8x maneuvering rocket.
~in conjunction with the Inertial Dampeners, this allows VTOL.

I personally would ditch these and stick with an inertialess drive system.

Power Generation:
-the engines deliver basic power

-a Mark I Naquahdah Generator powers the engines. this is a slightly modified version to output less energy, making it more efficient and long-lasting.

-Hydrogen tanks (Propellant and fuel)

[i]-Oxygen Tanks (Oxidizer)

Okay.

Hull::
-Carbon Composite
~this is the "epidermis"

-Nickel/Molybdenium/Titanium
~this is the armor layer

Hmm. Not as tough as some.

Skeleton:
-Carbon fiber
-Titanium/Chromium/Aluminium/Nickel alloy.

Carbon fiber is rather brittle for a skeleton, don't you think?

Electronic Warfare:
-Passive and Active sensor jamming

You can't actually jam a passive sensor. You just "deny" it.

-Sensor Confusion Drones
~Unguided rockets which mimic the heat and energy signature of the Aethon

This is clever. But how do they do it?

-Flares (to confuse heat-seaking missiles)

Okay.

Armament:
-12 hardpoints
~weapons will be fitted differently per country.
~since our missiles are god among alien fighters, this isn't overkill. to my taste the F-302 never had enough missiles, considering the vast outnumbering they faced and the sheer effectiveness of the missiles at reducing enemy numbers.

-standard long-range (modified) missile: AIM-54 Phoenix

-standard mid-range (modified) missile: AIM-120 AMRAAM

Sounds good.

-Mk I Railgun
~500KJ
~10,000 rounds per minute (variable)
~10mm 0.1Kg rounds.
~10 000 rounds on board (thus 1000 Kg)

Seems a bit much.

Other technology:
-Radar-immunity coating (like the X-301, this makes the fighter invisible to radar)

I question its usefulness. But okay.

-HUD helment

Good choice.

-CIP ( Core Integrated Processor)
~A central "brain" capable of making damage assessments
~The CIP can make complex calculations, like estimating nuclear fallout
~essentially an Intelligent Flight Control System
~a secure Subspace Link is kept with a ship using CON.
~this is essentially CON for a fighter.

Drop the "intelligent" bit and I'll be happy.

-Chimera
~Chimera can't fool sensors. it can, however, fool humans and aliens without such luxury.
~this optics projection system can generate a hologram around the ship. this allows it to mimic enemy aircraft, but also rocks and trees.
~if an Aethon has to land, the Chimera Optics Projection System conceals the craft according to the local environment.
~An Aethon can -for example- mimic a tel'tak, have the enemy get out of hiding in order to escape to their rescue ship, and then it simply mows down all opponents.
~the system is limited to a range of 80 meters, while a clear projection is limited to just 30 meters: after that, the trademark imperfections occur, the frequency of which increases as the distance increases.
~if desired i can remove this system in post-edit.

Do Not Remove This. I love it. Brilliant.


Overall, very good ship. You may have just topped my list.

Also you have 1280 fighters but have only distributed 380 of them?

I think I can address this bit. 60 per colony means 60 * 16 = 960. Plus 200 for ships and 120 for Earth equals 1,280.

[thekillman]

You named your fighter after a horse?

no aethon means "fiery" it's also the name of bird, and it's common in mythology. so what?

I personally would ditch these and stick with an inertialess drive system.

money

Just a suggestion: add thrust vectoring.

isn't that standard?

Hmm. Not as tough as some.

hit means kill more or less. my idea is that this thing kills BVR

Carbon fiber is rather brittle for a skeleton, don't you think?

not a material expert... yet.

they make cars out of it... also it's not the sole material

Seems a bit much.

nooo, adding twin Mark II railguns is better *sarcasm*

the gun has severely reduced firepower but trades it for more ammo.

I question its usefulness. But okay.

removes the usefullness of one sensor....




will make the mods

[thekillman]

final entry:

a few changes:

Name: Aethon
Type: Fighter
Role: Multi-Role Combat Aircraft.
Baseline cost: approx. 212 million (250 extra for a hyperdrive)
Designation:Fs-100
Planned::1,280 (60 per colony, 200 for ships, and 120 for Earth)

Crew:
fighter+gunner


Size:
-approx. 12 meters in lenght, 4 meters in height and some 15 meters in width.
~can be changed according to the model


Propulsion:
-2x Scimitar (with rocket components)
~ hypersonic, hydrogen-fueled, air breathing, combined cycle rocket engine/precooled air turboramjet.[/i]
~this probably needs a link: this link
~another
~in far less words, this engine is used for atmospheric flight and used to get into orbit.
~Atmospheric Flight: 1500m/s.
~Orbit is reached within 4 minutes
~has thrust vectoring

-2x VASIMR-derived engine.
~this engine is used for space-travel.
~space flight speeds in SG are dubious anyway. it'll outmaneuver and outrun a Dart, although this is rarely done considering the fuel spent.
~has thrust vectoring'

-8x maneuvering rocket.
~in conjunction with the Inertial Dampeners, this allows VTOL.


Power Generation:
-the engines deliver basic power

-a Mark I Naquahdah Generator powers the engines. this is a slightly modified version to output less energy, making it more efficient and long-lasting.

-Hydrogen tanks (Propellant and fuel)

[i]-Oxygen Tanks (Oxidizer)


Hull::
-Carbon Composite
~this is the "epidermis"

-Nickel/Molybdenium/Titanium
~this is the armor layer


Skeleton:
-Titanium/Chromium/Aluminium/Nickel alloy.


Electronic Warfare:
-Active sensor jamming

-Sensor Confusion Drones
~Unguided rockets which mimic the heat and energy signature of the Aethon

-Flares (to confuse heat-seaking missiles)


Armament:
-12 hardpoints
~weapons will be fitted differently per country.
~since our missiles are god among alien fighters, this isn't overkill. to my taste the F-302 never had enough missiles, considering the vast outnumbering they faced and the sheer effectiveness of the missiles at reducing enemy numbers.

-standard long-range (modified) missile: AIM-54 Phoenix

-standard mid-range (modified) missile: AIM-120 AMRAAM

-Mk I Railgun
~500KJ
~10,000 rounds per minute (variable)
~10mm 0.1Kg rounds.
~5000rounds on board (thus 500 Kg)

[i]-Nuke Hardpoint.[/q]
~this is a structural "hardpoint" where -if necessary- a nuclear warhead can be attached in about 4-5 hours of work.


Other technology:
-Radar-immunity coating (like the X-301, this makes the fighter invisible to radar)
-Inertial Dampeners.
-HUD helment
-Advanced targeting and computing systems
-Advanced sensors
-CIP ( Core Integrated Processor)
~A central "brain" capable of making damage assessments
~The CIP can make complex calculations, like estimating nuclear fallout
~essentially a Flight Control System
~a secure Subspace Link is kept with a ship using CON.
~this is essentially CON for a fighter.
-Chimera
~Chimera can't fool sensors. it can, however, fool humans and aliens without such luxury.
~this optics projection system can generate a hologram around the ship. this allows it to mimic enemy aircraft, but also rocks and trees.
~if an Aethon has to land, the Chimera Optics Projection System conceals the craft according to the local environment.
~An Aethon can -for example- mimic a tel'tak, have the enemy get out of hiding in order to escape to their rescue ship, and then it simply mows down all opponents.
~the system is limited to a range of 80 meters, while a clear projection is limited to just 30 meters: after that, the trademark imperfections occur, the frequency of which increases as the distance increases.
~if desired i can remove this system in post-edit.

Costs:
total: 230 million (estimate)




designer's notes:

-fighters can only have so much power and cost/effectiveness ratio. i chose electronic warfare to make the difference. this doesn't make combat overly complicated: the CIP controls most of it anyway. either EW flares or anti-missile flares can be launched to confuse missiles and enemies (the CIP/CON system makes it ineffective to us).

-this bird is expensive, but from the looks of it all fighters appear to be costed similarly. since lives do matter and our fighters always were superiority fighters, i'm all for high-quality.

-again the missiles might seem much, but since they're god out there, we can never have enough. i'd prefer changing it to 4 missile drums carrying even more missiles. but people probably consider it overkill.

-the ship's anti-radar coating is like the X-301, so advanced it doesn't show up on radar, at all. costly but great.

-since every air force out there uses different weapons, this baby will too. depends on where it's built.

-After edit options: if necessary i'll add an optional hyperdrive. missiles stay the same regardless.