Can anyone explain the "stalker" thing to me?

[Ham]

While browsing through the episodes forum, I saw many people were upset with Carter for agreeing to marry Pete in the ep "Affinity". Then there were these references that the writers insulted the fans with a "stalker" comment made by one of the characters. From what I gathered, it seems that Pete stalked Carter or something.

Basically what I'm asking is this: Can someone explain the whole situation to me. Why is Pete hated? Did he stalk Carter? What was the writers insult to the fans? Etc.

[Skydiver]

some of pete's behavior that can be seen as stalking is

chimera spoilage

Spoiler:

calling his friend at the fbi to do a background check, despite the fact that pete knew she worked in the military and did classified stuff (he also did this after abruptly leaving her alone in bed after he'd spent the night...kinda rude)

then in the end, when sg-1 was staking out daniel's house to try and catch osiris, he jsut showed up...with no explanation of how he got there, thus leading to the conclusion that he'd followed her somehow since he'd never met daniel, muchless knew where the guy lived, and sam hadn't been able to talk to him that day (they show her getting his voice mail)

these two events suggest that he was checking up on her and that he also followed her without her knowledge..plus the fact that he was staking out a stakeout...something that, as a policeman, he should know is a bad thing to do

the stalker comment pete made in affinity has been attributed to tptb poking fun at the fans since they'd been the recipients of what was apparantly a large number of letters expressing some folks dislike of the character and his behaviors. 'stalker pete' was used in more than one interview

[Wass]

Finally I get whole picture thanks Sky to be honest I don't now what fuss is about but I guess that's because I’m not into the ship stuff.

[Skydiver]

i guess it depends on your point of view. I do see the errors in pete's actions

i think storming out was horribly rude. hello, i'm gonna sleep with you then leave in a faunch when you don't suddenly tell me your whole life story

then again, he did tell her about his past and was right to expect some reciprocity.....however i do feel that he should have respected her 'it's classified, i can't'

calling his friend, again it's rude, but then again, he did seem to regret it because when the agent called back he said 'only the hilights' and didn't want to know every single detail

the clencher was finding his way to the stakeout. realistically? there was no way in hades he would have just parked outside norad and waited for the van. especially since 911, military bases are a wee bit pissy about stuff like that.

pete fell into a plot hole. the writers needed to get him to daniel's to put him into danger and get him hurt.

instead of saying 'well i found out from my friend at the colorado springs pd' or maybe having daniel have introduced sam to him. if daniel had introduced him, then it wouldn't be unreasonable to have pete go to daniel's to talk about sam, see the van, get suspicious and hang around

either of these scenarios would have eliminated a lot of the stalker tendencies.

but they didn't do that. the writers had pete treat sam rather rudely, then have him follow her....and they sorta painted him in a negative light. Tehn this was complicated by the simple fact that obstacles to a ship aren't always welcome.

to a certain extent, Laira, kynthia, narim, joe....all of these characters are disliked in a way simply because they're 'in the way'

I can see how tptb can be fussed about fans seeing pete as a stalker, because that's not how they intended him to be seen. however i do think that instead of going off about how fans have 'issues' they might want to take a step back and realize that, by leaving these plot holes, they made it easier for the character to be unwelcome. A little sloppy writing has gone a long way to tarnish this character.

the same thing happened to laira. many folks do have issues with her wanting and sleeping with jack, but to many the 'straw that broke the shippers back' was when she nearly got teal'c killed and lied by omission to keep jack there.

[catscan]

Yet, they tend to ignore the fact, that if you act secretive around a detective, that his detective instinct won't kick in. That, and the writers tend to underestimate, that fans will dwell to much on things they didn't think about. What, pete has been in what 3 or 4 episodes, yet you can say he has "stalker tendencies"? I guess that probably means all good detectives have stalker tendencies. He wanted to see what the secret was, period. He found out, and do we have proof of him still stalking her? [i]No.[/spoiler]

I have a child, when she starts to act secretive, I know that something's up. And my curiosity kicks in, and I go find out what it is, to make sure she's not getting into trouble. Sam kicked in Pete's curiosity and went into detective mode. Was it the right thing to do? Probably not, but it doesn't even come CLOSE to stalker tendencies. That lable was added by Jack/Sam shippers.

[Watters87]

So what if Pete's curiosity kick in, he should have known to back off when Sam said I can't talk about it. I'm sure Pete is not the only boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife that wants to know what their other half is doing and I pretty sure that when they hear the word classified that they back off. Another thing that irks me when the PTB says that it was alright the stuff Pete did because he is a cop and cops are curious. Pete job is to serve the public not to serve his own childish needs. Also Pete used illegal methods to find out what Sam did when he called his FBI buddy for a background check because background checks are only allowed in offical cases.

[dipsofjazz]

Yet, they tend to ignore the fact, that if you act secretive around a detective, that his detective instinct won't kick in. That, and the writers tend to underestimate, that fans will dwell to much on things they didn't think about. What, pete has been in what 3 or 4 episodes, yet you can say he has "stalker tendencies"? I guess that probably means all good detectives have stalker tendencies. He wanted to see what the secret was, period. He found out, and do we have proof of him still stalking her? [i]No.[/spoiler]

I have a child, when she starts to act secretive, I know that something's up. And my curiosity kicks in, and I go find out what it is, to make sure she's not getting into trouble. Sam kicked in Pete's curiosity and went into detective mode. Was it the right thing to do? Probably not, but it doesn't even come CLOSE to stalker tendencies. That lable was added by Jack/Sam shippers.

I think that if you go to this thread http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...ght=Pete+hated you will find that it is not just shippers who dislike Pete!

[Madeleine]

If Sam had *once* used the word "Classified" I'd feel differently about Pete. She didn't. If he'd heard that word he'd have known what it meant. Instead he heard what amounted to - at most - implication that it was classified, and to hints that it was dangerous. Detective instinct kicks in...

[Skydiver]

it's not just 'shippers' that have labeled him stalker pete. many no-romos have also expressed the same sentiment.

basically, it still boils down to a lack of respect. sam says 'i can't tell you' and pete responds by going behind her back and digging anyway.

maybe some find that an admirable quality, but for others it smacks too much of a controlling boyfriend/sig other

it all depends on a person's personal tolerances. what some see as cute and endearing, others are likely to see as controlling and annoying

here's the scene (thanks to the transcript ladies):

Later on as daylight comes, they lay in bed and talk.
Sam: So why did you become a cop?
Pete: I watched too much TV as a kid. Starsky and Hutch, Barney Miller.
Sam: Barney Miller?
Pete: It's my favorite show. Those guys never shot anybody, never beat anybody up.
Sam: That's it?
Pete: What did you think? Every cop out there has an inspirational story? It's just a job Sam.
Sam: I don't think so. Not for you. Anyway Mark told me you have a story.
Pete: *******. Never date your buddy's sister.
Sam: He never told me what it was.
Pete: It's no big deal. I had a bit of a rough time when I was growing up. Truth is, I probably would have ended up in jail if it wasn't for this one particular cop who took an interest. He really made a difference in my life and I admired that.
Sam: It's an honorable job.
Pete: Well my ex wife didn't think so. Did you ever see the episode where Barney comes home and all his stuff is on the front lawn with the divorce papers stapled on top?
Sam: No.
Pete: I didn't blame her. I mean the hours suck and you never know if....I didn't have a choice, it's who I am.
Sam: I can understand that.
Pete: Really. Deep Space Telemetry is who you are.
Sam: I wish I could tell you more.
Pete: You don't trust me?
Sam: I'm not allowed.
He gets out of bed and starts getting dressed.
Sam: Where you going?
Pete: I'm gonna drive back to Denver today and file my report.
Sam: Pete, aside from getting in huge trouble myself. I could be putting you in danger.
Pete: Oh now you're trying to tell me that joke about your boyfriends all ending up dead is true?
Sam: Pete.....Please.
Pete: The problem is, I feel like I've just scratched the surface with you Sam. How can we have a future if you won't share your life with me.
He kisses her cheek and leaves. He gets into his car and picks up his mobile phone.


---

ok, sam says 'i'm not allowed', true, she didn't say classified, but she says she CAN'T tell him, not that she doesn't want to but that she can't

Here is pete, only dating her a month (in death knell which airs after this, sam says it's been a month since evolution, and since there was no mention of pete in grace, it's pretty implied that Pete is a result of sam's decision/revelations in grace, which means she's been dating him less than a month) and he's already talking about the future?????

That's another aspect of his personality that pushes some towards the stalkerish perception

[Watters87]

Well saying she can't talk about might not be the same as classified but it is pretty damn close in my book. Also Sam said to Pete, 'Pete, aside from getting in huge trouble myself. I could be putting you in danger'. Now that to me is a crucial line and that should have told Pete that what she did was classified. Even after this he still calls his FBI buddy and goes to the stake out. Is he that selfish that he would endanger Sam's career?

[Madeleine]

ok, sam says 'i'm not allowed', true, she didn't say classified, but she says she CAN'T tell him, not that she doesn't want to but that she can't

I think this is a YMMV thing

Here is pete, only dating her a month ... and he's already talking about the future?????

Ditto on the YMMV. I knew I'd probably end up with Mr W within a couple of weeks of meeting him and we were in our teens, so for a couple of older adults to be talking Future after a couple of weeks doesn't ring false at all.

[catscan]

Here is pete, only dating her a month (in death knell which airs after this, sam says it's been a month since evolution, and since there was no mention of pete in grace, it's pretty implied that Pete is a result of sam's decision/revelations in grace, which means she's been dating him less than a month) and he's already talking about the future?????

That's another aspect of his personality that pushes some towards the stalkerish perception

Do you have a transcript of what's gone on in that month? It's pretty hard to judge someone like that from just a few apperances. Maybe for you things could not move as fast. How do you know that Sam hasn't gone off the edge and talked about a future with Pete? Heck how do you know that when he says "future" he's talking spending the rest of their lives together? Heck, he could be talking about the future of their dating. And believe it or not, holding secrets can destroy a dating relationship pretty easy.

The point is, he's a detective, which they make a point of mentioning a few times. She perked his detective instinct. For all he knew, she was upto no good. People now adays do run background checks on potential partners. Does that make someone a stalker? Sure it's not the norm, but it happens.

There's even a chance had she said "I have a classified government job, that I can't talk about with you, because you don't have a security clearance, so lease don't ask." that he might had backed off. She didn't, so he went into detective mode.

[Shipperahoy]

I agree with Madeleine to an extent. Sam never came right out and said "My job is classified, I can't tell you about it." While I do feel that since she told him she wasn't allowed to talk about her job and he knew she worked for the Air Force that he should have put 2 and 2 together I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt. If he had just stopped with the background check I probably wouldn't have cared. But what galled me was that his source told him that she was involved in some top-level stuff that the government didn't want anyone to know about and instead of backing off he follows her into a potentially dangerous situation. It galls me to no end. But I don't think that there was any malicious or "stalker" intent behind his actions. I think that he was genuinely concerned but I do think that he crossed a line.

[keshou]

I agree with Madeleine to an extent. Sam never came right out and said "My job is classified, I can't tell you about it." While I do feel that since she told him she wasn't allowed to talk about her job and he knew she worked for the Air Force that he should have put 2 and 2 together I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt. If he had just stopped with the background check I probably wouldn't have cared. But what galled me was that his source told him that she was involved in some top-level stuff that the government didn't want anyone to know about and instead of backing off he follows her into a potentially dangerous situation. It galls me to no end. But I don't think that there was any malicious or "stalker" intent behind his actions. I think that he was genuinely concerned but I do think that he crossed a line.

I agree with Shipperahoy. I think Pete's actions in following Sam were a little over the top. He was over-zealous. Could have caused real problems. But I don't think he's a stalker. I don't think TPTB intended for him to be seen as a stalker.

Goes back to what Skydiver said about the plot-holes. They could have accomplished the same end thru different means. Maybe they had too many donuts that week.

But I thought the idea of one of the team having a relationship outside the SGC was an interesting thread to explore. As a minor story arc developing the idea that these people basically have no lives. How difficult it is. I never thought they'd go the direction they have.

Still, I don't care for all the names Pete gets called, etc. I don't think he deserves a death-wish or to be maimed in a potato-peeling accident or something.

[Skydiver]

I'm reasonably certain that tptb didn't mean to portray him as a stalker. I think it was a result of

bad writing
plot holes
to put it bluntly, Men writing men. men often don't understand how a female can feel or interpret actions they don't see as bad as threatening. They probably thought he was being romantic.

I don't call him a stalker, i don't hate him, in fact, the few fic he's been in of mine he's there or an ok guy. I do, however, see precisely what it is about him that riles people up.

The tantrum, i could see. it had to be frustrating for him. even the background check i could see. you can bet your bippy if sam continued to date him that someone at teh sgc could possibly run a background check on Pete just to make sure he's not a spy or something. (husbands/wives of folks in classified positions do often have to pass security checks of thier own)

and i gotta admit his pushing for the future....like the scene at the dance:

Later on in the evening, there are only a few people around. Pete and Sam are still dancing, slowly.
Sam: This is great.
Pete: It's nice to know that people still stay together no matter what, isn't it?

---

could be interpreted as a recently divorced man who's on the rebound and trying to recapture what he'd lost...ie a woman in his life.

The proverbial straw for me was him following her to the stakeout (or crashing it or however the heck he found it. colorado springs is a large city, he just didn't stumble across it) and then staying at said stake out, despite the fact, as a detective, he surely knew what it was and that he was endangering it by his very presence.

he then stuck his nose into something he shouldn't have and endangered all of them.

that's my main issue with him. That's when he crossed the line and, IMHO, should have been spanked, not rewarded with secrets. In the past, folks have seen more and been told less.

I don't think he was stalkerish in one definition of the word, but he was stupid, and he was wrong.

I do see where other folks see the stalker angle from. There are parts of me that just cringe at him.

I also find it rather odd that Sam, who's always been independent and self-possessed, all of a sudden turns into a doormat when it comes to pete. In many ways, she comes across as a rather pathetic figure who's willinig to overlook pretty much everything just to have some company. That Sam Carter, isn't the one we've seen for 7.5 years