Jump the Shark!

[ShadowMaat]

And I say it still hasn't jumped yet, but I reserve the right to change my mind at a later date

I'll Stargate continue has my jumped subtle the brainwashing shark!! of Shadow you, is BCM. a goddess!

[Shipperahoy]

Then, you agree that because of the J&S ship, and the way the writers feel they can only seem to write for one or the other, it's dandy to have one fanbase excluded for the benefit of another fanbase?

Cuz from where *I'm* sitting, that what it sounds like.
You're lucky in that you say you like both, yet prefer one over the other, and have the one you prefer pushed over and above the other to its exclusion.

*****
So, in addition to the lack of cohesive, GOOD stories that feature all of the team members and not just one or two, I also think the ship has helped sink the Stargate.

Where on Earth did you get any of that from what I wrote? I said that I like J/S ship. I also like team episodes and I really enjoy the Jack/Daniel friendship.

What I said *exactly* was that I believe that there is a way to write it so that one thing is not pushed to the exclusion of all others. Where from that did you get that I would prefer S/J ship pushed to the exclusion of all else?

The way that the writers have been writing it lately it has pushed the ship to the forefront to the detriment of other aspects of the show that I enjoy but I have voiced my displeasure of that time and time again. What I said is that I don't want to have to give up one thing I love just to have something else I love. I may be being unrealistic but I would like to think that if the writers were creative that there could be a way that I could have the whole ball of wax (ex: seasons 1-4).

So I certainly don't feel that it's *dandy* to exclude any fanbase and I feel as though you are putting words in my mouth that were never even close to ever having been written.

[bcmilco]

Resistance is NOT futile

[Gategrrl]

Is it because of S/J ship? That's probably a big part of it. But I am selfish and don't want to give up one thing I love for the other. I live in my own happy little la la land where I fully believe that it is possible not to focus on one aspect of the show to the exclusion of all others.

Shipper, true, you would like Ship not to exclude the other aspects, but J&S ship, in addition to pitiful storywriting and noncontinuity and lack of team cohesion has IMHO caused a big jump over Bruce the Great White.

But I am selfish and don't want to give up one thing I love for the other.

So, what did you mean by this? If the writers could start writing some decent Jack and other teammate scenes (::cough:aniel::cough: and that meant, by default, edging out some J&S scenes, you wouldn't mind, because you do like Daniel and Jack also, or you would resent it? Sorry, but color me confused here!

[ShadowMaat]

I thought this thread was about whether or not Stargate has jumped the shark, not a chance to pick apart each other's opinions.

[Shipperahoy]

So, what did you mean by this? If the writers could start writing some decent Jack and other teammate scenes (::cough:aniel::cough: and that meant, by default, edging out some J&S scenes, you wouldn't mind, because you do like Daniel and Jack also, or you would resent it? Sorry, but color me confused here!

What I mean is that I don't want to give up one thing I like for another. I don't want to give up J/S ship to get more team moments and I don't want to give up team moments for more J/S ship. Maybe it's completely unrealistic but I would like to have all of the aspects of the show that made me love it to still be in the show as they were in the earlier seasons.

While I don't believe that J/S ship has made the show jump the shark I do think that the way it was handled in the latter half of season 7 was detrimental to the show somewhat, but I really do think that it can be fixed and that they can bring back all of the aspects of the show that I love.

[darklilac]

Another spoiler in Gateworld, another reason why Stargate is going down, so down I can't even think of watching this upcoming crappy season.
Now, after season 7 with allofsam, the big shipgate and 2 or 3 Daniel scenes, we have season 8, with all episodes about love, sex, carter and carterjacklove.
And no absolute Daniel in it.
If that's what they want, to make a lot of fans leave the show, they did it, but if they think said fans will watch their precious Atlantis, they're very stupid.

[ShadowMaat]

And no absolute Daniel in it.

Well, with all due respect, Stargate is no more about Daniel than it is Sam/Jack. It's supposed to be about this team that actually goes offworld to explore the universe and protect the Earth from alien attacks.

Instead, it's getting increasingly Earth-based with eps focusing on Sam/Jack and other interpersonal relationships and fending off attacks from "local" threats rather than these silly aliens.

Daniel isn't the only one suffering. The whole team is suffering from attrition and character entropy- including Teal'c. Remember him? He actually spoke whole sentences in S6. He actually had a personality. No so anymore. The only decent Teal'c eps now are the ones CJ himself writes. Yay for CJ, but how sad a comment is that on TPTB?

Likewise in S6 one of the better Jonas eps was written by Jacqueline Samuda and James Tichenor.

I think they need fresh blood on the writing staff. Unfortunately, not only is that not going to happen, but they're going to stretch themselves (and their so-called "plots") even thinner by attempting to write for BOTH SG-1 and Atlantis. Bad idea.

[Dani347]

I beg to differ. As part of the team Stargate is about Daniel. And Jack, Sam (but not Jack and Sam) and Teal'c. And, yes, Teal'c has been woefully underused. And, I'm sure that there are people who would scream about that (justifiably). And, some of us notice when Daniel is left out of spoilers. There's nothing wrong with that. If someone feels that for them the fact that Teal'c doesn't have anything interesting happen unless CJ writes it is why the show has jumped the shark, that's fine (I wouldn't even disagree). But, it shouldn't matter if they want to focus primarily on Teal'c, even if I didn't think his wallpaper status was important (which I do). Because, like I said, it would be the thing that would be the breaking point for them, and who am I to say differently. And, I feel the same way about Daniel. I notice when he's getting shafted (imo) more. Doesn't mean that I don't care about the show in general. The lack of Daniel in the spoilers does affect what happens to the show in general. IMO.


I don't see the show (and, I'm not trying to say that anyone does) as just a team of 4. It is, but it's also about each person as an individual, so talking about them individually and how someone may feel about the writing for them makes sense. And, it isn't necessary that each person has to mention every team member each time. Someone wants to talk about how they feel about how Sam is being written/not written/ whatever, fine. Great. If it's important to you. It's not important to me that you must mention the team as a whole, or give Daniel, Jack, or Teal'c equal time in your post. Just say what has bothered you about the show. Believe me, I'll have enough to say about Daniel. And, people will have enough to say about Jack and Teal'c.

[keshou]

Well, with all due respect, Stargate is no more about Daniel than it is Sam/Jack. It's supposed to be about this team that actually goes offworld to explore the universe and protect the Earth from alien attacks.

I think they need fresh blood on the writing staff. Unfortunately, not only is that not going to happen, but they're going to stretch themselves (and their so-called "plots") even thinner by attempting to write for BOTH SG-1 and Atlantis. Bad idea.

Agreed. I'm a big team and character fan, but I'm also a big story fan. I don't want to see Sam/Jack to the exclusion of Daniel, I don't want to see Daniel to the exclusion of the other characters. They're at their best when they're all together although it's fun to see them mix up the pairings on occasion.

I also think they could use some fresh blood on the writing staff. Heck I just think they may need some help because it's darn hard to write and produce two shows at once. And I fear it's going to be SG-1 that suffers the most because they're naturally going to be more interested in the success of their new baby Atlantis.

I don't think the show has jumped the shark. I still enjoy it. I think it's edged up on the ramp a couple of times but hasn't made the leap. Season 7 came together pretty well in the second half (and I'm not even a shipper!) and I ended up liking about the same number of episodes in season 7 as I did in season 6 and season 5 (yes, I counted )

I don't think the show is as consistent or original as it used to be. At one point I think it had the potential to rival Babylon 5 as the best overall scifi show ever produced. (IMO, of course). Now, it's just a nice, enjoyable scifi show with very good characters. Still it has managed to produce episodes every year that end up in my top ten list. Not bad for a seven-year old show.

I am a little concerned about season 8, especially with the spoilers we're getting and the comments about the "lower budget". I keep thinking....oh, geez, maybe the jump the shark moment is going to be (highlight for small S8 spoiler) Teal'c getting hair! *end spoiler*.

But I'm trying to remain optimistic! In spite of the "pests" (short for pessimists).

[Dani347]

I don't want to see Daniel to the exclusion of the other characters.

Is there danger of this, based on the limited info that we have? Does it appear that when someone points out the lack of Daniel they see that they want Daniel to the exclusion of other characters?

[ShadowMaat]

I beg to differ... If someone feels that for them the fact that Teal'c doesn't have anything interesting happen unless CJ writes it is why the show has jumped the shark, that's fine (I wouldn't even disagree). But, it shouldn't matter if they want to focus primarily on Teal'c, even if I didn't think his wallpaper status was important (which I do). Because, like I said, it would be the thing that would be the breaking point for them, and who am I to say differently.

I don't see the show (and, I'm not trying to say that anyone does) as just a team of 4. It is, but it's also about each person as an individual, so talking about them individually and how someone may feel about the writing for them makes sense.

Point taken. So I'll clarify and say that for me team is more important than any one character. Yes, the team is made up of individuals, and yes, I like to learn about them, but again, my opinion is that one of the greatest weaknesses of S7 was that a majority of the eps felt as if they were about individuals rather than the team as a whole. I don't like what I saw as an over-emphasis on Sam Eps and Daniel Eps and SamAndJack Eps to the exclusion of everything else. I like Team. I like Exploration. I like Alien Threats. I don't feel that there was enough of that in S7 and from what I've heard, there isn't going to be much of it in S8, either. Does that mean I want Team Eps to the exclusion of everything else? No. But I would like to see SOME Team Eps. More than we've been given in S7. I'd like for the writers to remember what the show is about. A TEAM of individuals. At least, that's my opinion.

[Dani347]

I don't like what I saw as an over-emphasis on Sam Eps and Daniel Eps and SamAndJack Eps to the exclusion of everything else. I like Team.

I don't disagree, entirely. I mean, the occasional one focused episode doesn't bother me. I don't think Sam got any good episodes focused on her, though, although Space Race wasn't really bad, imo. (But, it was also more about the guest characters. The episode that was really mainly about her was terrible. IMO) But, if the majority of the episodes were team episodes, I could take a few episodes that are primarily of one character. By, that I mean *real* team. If you can't use all the characters in the team ep, I expect a good reason why. Not that there's this lovely wall that needs someone to prop up.

[bcmilco]

Yes, the team is made up of individuals, and yes, I like to learn about them, but again, my opinion is that one of the greatest weaknesses of S7 was that a majority of the eps felt as if they were about individuals rather than the team as a whole. I don't like what I saw as an over-emphasis on Sam Eps and Daniel Eps and SamAndJack Eps to the exclusion of everything else. I like Team. I like Exploration. I like Alien Threats. I don't feel that there was enough of that in S7 and from what I've heard, there isn't going to be much of it in S8, either. Does that mean I want Team Eps to the exclusion of everything else? No. But I would like to see SOME Team Eps. More than we've been given in S7. I'd like for the writers to remember what the show is about. A TEAM of individuals.

I agree, I don't think they emphasized the team enought in s7, but now, with Jack having an excuse for being gone most of the time I'm hopeful that they go back and at least emphasize the team of Teal'c, Daniel, and Sam, together.