Mitchell: Medal of Honor?

[Col.Foley]

Can I make one point to all of you bashing Mitchell and saying he is a weak character. Before I state a specific opinion on this. Have any of you wathced all of Season Nine? Avalon to Camelot and every episode in between, because during the second half of the season there was alot of character development of Mitchell, IMO

[Descent]

Can I make one point to all of you bashing Mitchell and saying he is a weak character. Before I state a specific opinion on this. Have any of you wathced all of Season Nine? Avalon to Camelot and every episode in between, because during the second half of the season there was alot of character development of Mitchell, IMO

I would get used to the bashing and childish jokes if I were you, my friend. There are quite of few here who don't like Mitchell. Anyways...

Mitchell did a great thing by saving SG-1 but did he deserve a Medal of Honor for it? No. If that were the case, SG-1 should've had quite a few of those themselves by now.

[ForeverSg1]

Basically if Mitchell hadn't taken out that Al'kesh, it would have shot down SG-1... since SG-1 saved the Earth, I think it follows that Mitchell (who almost died) would definetely get the Medal of Honor for saving SG-1 who saved the world.

Umm, so what is the reasoning for Jack not getting the CMOH for his actions during this battle? I mean he is the one who activated the device that actually destroyed Annubis. Every moment he sat in that chair trying to activate the weapon, he grew closer and closer to death. If he hadn't had been put into stasis and healed by the Thor, he would have died. He once again willingly went above and beyond the call of duty in order to protect Earth. Something every member of SG-1 has done on numerous occassions. So I'm still having a bit of a problem understanding what exactly Mitchell did that was so much more self-sacrificing than Jack or anyone else involved that day?

I mean if we want to speculate we can say that if Mitchell didn't shoot down the alien ship, SG-1 would have died and therefore Earth would have been destroyed. Which some could interpret as Mitchell inadvertantly saving the planet. However, if Jack hadn't of stuck his head into the brain sucker in the first place, Mitchell never would have had the opportunity to save SG-1 and he probably would have been one of the many pilots who were shot down and died during the battle with Annubis' fleet. It's all speculation of course, but in my opinion it was a poorly written story arc to introduce Cameron.

[SG-25B11]

I just saw it as a thank you to Mitchell. He was bed-ridden at the time and it was said at the beginning of the flashback that he might never walk again. It wasn't certain if he would be able to return to active duty and so it was decided to give him the medal at that time.

I don't see this as diminishing what SG-1 or the other F-302 pilots did. In the next episode, O'neill was promoted to Brig. Gen. and took command of the SGC. Carter was promoted to Lt. Col. and took command of SG-1. They were given promotions instead of medals.

[ReganX]

I just saw it as a thank you to Mitchell. He was bed-ridden at the time and it was said at the beginning of the flashback that he might never walk again. It wasn't certain if he would be able to return to active duty and so it was decided to give him the medal at that time.

Does the US military make a habit of handing out its highest award as a "get well soon" gift? I thought that the Purple Heart was the usual decoration given to those wounded while fighting against an enemy of the United States.

[suse]

Umm, so what is the reasoning for Jack not getting the CMOH for his actions during this battle? I mean he is the one who activated the device that actually destroyed Annubis. Every moment he sat in that chair trying to activate the weapon, he grew closer and closer to death. If he hadn't had been put into stasis and healed by the Thor, he would have died. He once again willingly went above and beyond the call of duty in order to protect Earth. Something every member of SG-1 has done on numerous occassions. So I'm still having a bit of a problem understanding what exactly Mitchell did that was so much more self-sacrificing than Jack or anyone else involved that day?

I mean if we want to speculate we can say that if Mitchell didn't shoot down the alien ship, SG-1 would have died and therefore Earth would have been destroyed. Which some could interpret as Mitchell inadvertantly saving the planet. However, if Jack hadn't of stuck his head into the brain sucker in the first place, Mitchell never would have had the opportunity to save SG-1 and he probably would have been one of the many pilots who were shot down and died during the battle with Annubis' fleet. It's all speculation of course, but in my opinion it was a poorly written story arc to introduce Cameron.

Exactly. Also, it was his job to shoot down that alkesh. That's what fighter pilots do. Do all pilots who shoot down something close to aquiring its target get MoHs? Of course not! I'm not saying he didn't do what he had to line the line of duty. If they showed up the important bits of the battle (and why would they show us the unimportant bits?) what he did was no more and no less than what every other pilot did. Indeed, no more - one could make a case for less, he never intended to ram an alkesh - than Gen Hammond did.

While Mitchell deserved a medal higher than the Purple Heart, from what I saw and the rules on the awarding of the medal he just didn't deserve the MoH .

To those saying that the writers don't have time to research...what do you think they did when they used Egyptian mythology? What you you think they did when they came up with plausible - rooted in today's science - technobabble for Carter? Research. The CMoH would have taken five minutes to google. Tops. Perhaps they did. "Oh look! Let's make Mitchell a real nations-highest-honor hero from the getgo! That way him leading makes sense!" On the surface it looks like Mitchell's a shoo-in. Sure. But he didn't go go the degree necessary to get that particular honor.

Perhaps they realized their error because it sure had never been mentioned since. Except on the boards. Thank goodness.

Suse

[ReganX]

While Mitchell deserved a medal higher than the Purple Heart from what I saw and the rules on the awarding of the medalhe just didn't deserve the MoH .

As I understand it, anyone awarded the medal must distinguish him or herself "conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States".

Mitchell and the other F-302 pilots were ordered to defend the scout ship "at all costs", so could anything any of them did be considered above and beyond the call of duty?

[suse]

As I understand it, anyone awarded the medal must distinguish him or herself "conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States".

Mitchell and the other F-302 pilots were ordered to defend the scout ship "at all costs", so could anything any of them did be considered above and beyond the call of duty?

Exactly. It was his job to defend SG-1. A medal is fine. the CMoH? Nope. Not a chance. Even if the orders weren't "at all costs," what he did - while heroic, the same as any other pilot up there - did not deserve the nation's highest honor.

Frankly it reeks of trying to catch him up in "hero status" to the rest of SG-1. Instead it felt like an oversell and put me on guard. For good reason, as it played out. . But that's for another thread.

Suse

[Maj_Cliffhanger]

As I understand it, anyone awarded the medal must distinguish him or herself "conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States".

Mitchell and the other F-302 pilots were ordered to defend the scout ship "at all costs", so could anything any of them did be considered above and beyond the call of duty?

Regardless of whether if meets the standard of 'above and beyond' it was against an UNRECOGNIZED enemy of the US (or it's allies). I really don't think Congress is going to be approving a CMoH for action against an alien invasion when they don't know anything about said alien invasion. Yes, you can NOMINATE the guy (and then seal the records), but Congress can't approve it until full disclosure of the Stargate Program. (Okay, I'm repeating myself now.)

The coverstory of a test flight accident is weak - in my opinion. Yes, Yeager got it for this (IIRC) but we are talking years of 'above and beyond' for a test pilot! Despite the coversotry, I've never heard Mitchell referred to as a test pilot...

Shutting up now.

[ForeverSg1]

I just saw it as a thank you to Mitchell. He was bed-ridden at the time and it was said at the beginning of the flashback that he might never walk again. It wasn't certain if he would be able to return to active duty and so it was decided to give him the medal at that time.

I don't see this as diminishing what SG-1 or the other F-302 pilots did. In the next episode, O'neill was promoted to Brig. Gen. and took command of the SGC. Carter was promoted to Lt. Col. and took command of SG-1. They were given promotions instead of medals.

Hmm, so I guess Carter and O'neill were promoted simply as a means to thank them for a job well done during the battle with Anubis? I mean it couldn't possibly have been because they were both due a promotion and the paperwork was already in the works? In the movie, O'Neill was a retired Colonel, which means he had already put in at least twenty years of service. So if we assume that he was born in 1952 and graduated from the academy at the age of 21, that would mean by S8 he would have had thirty years in service and at least eight years in rank.

It is my understanding that anyone promoted to the rank of colonel may stay for 30 active commissioned years-unless earlier retired by other provisions of law. If the officer is not then promoted to the ranks of General, he is forced by law to retire. So it it my understanding that had Jack not taken the promotion to Brigidier General and accepted the position at the SGC, he would have retired. If my assumption here is incorrect, I'm sure someone will be kind enough to inform me of the error.

General officers( Flag Officers ) are those in the paygrades of O-7 through O-10. Fewer than one percent of career officers will ever be promoted to Flag Rank. They are nominated for promotion by the President of the United States, and confirmed by the Senate. You can't get more "political" than that. The services hold in-service promotion boards to recommend officers for general officer promotion to the President. When vacancies occur (a general officer gets promoted or retires), the President nominates officers to be promoted from these lists (with advice from the Secretary of Defense, Secretary of the applicable service, and the Service Chief of Staff/Commandant).


Like the other commissioned officer ranks, Congress limits the number of General Officers that can serve on active duty.

To be promoted to O-7, an officer must first complete a full tour in a Joint-Duty-Assignment (this is an assignment to a unit that is comprised of members from two or more of the services). This requirement can be waived, in some instances (10 USC, Sec 619a).

The mandatory retirement age for all general officers is 62 (this can be deferred to age 64 in some cases). Under the law (10 USC, Sec 635), an officer who has been promoted to O-7, but is not on the recommended list to O-8, must retire five years after promotion to O-7, or 30 years of active duty service, whichever is later.
An O-8 must retire five years after being promoted to O-8, or 35 years of service, whichever is greater (10 USC, Sec 636).

So it is very unlikely that Jack would have been promoted to Brigadier General and given command of the SGC had he not previously been placed on the recommended list.

As for Carter, in 2004 she had fifteen years in service and five years time in grade which would have also made her eligible for promotion to Lt. Colonel.

So you'll have to forgive me if I don't agree that they were given their promotions as a thank you instead of receiving a medal; because in my opinion, they were both given a promotion because they had earned one.

Italized information was quoted from here.

[suse]

Hmm, so I guess Carter and O'neill were promoted simply as a means to thank them for a job well done during the battle with Anubis? I mean it couldn't possibly have been because they were both due a promotion and the paperwork was already in the works? In the movie, O'Neill was a retired Colonel, which means he had already put in at least twenty years of service. So if we assume that he was born in 1952 and graduated from the academy at the age of 21, that would mean by S8 he would have had over thirty years in service and at least nine years in rank.

It is my understanding that anyone promoted to the rank of colonel may stay for 30 active commissioned years-unless earlier retired by other provisions of law. If the officer is not then promoted to the ranks of General, he is forced by law to retire. So it it my understanding that had Jack not taken the promotion to Brigidier General and accepted the position at the SGC, he would have retired. I my assumption here incorrect, I'm sure someone will let me know.

General officers( Flag Officers ) are those in the paygrades of O-7 through O-10. Fewer than one percent of career officers will ever be promoted to Flag Rank. They are nominated for promotion by the President of the United States, and confirmed by the Senate. You can't get more "political" than that. The services hold in-service promotion boards to recommend officers for general officer promotion to the President. When vacancies occur (a general officer gets promoted or retires), the President nominates officers to be promoted from these lists (with advice from the Secretary of Defense, Secretary of the applicable service, and the Service Chief of Staff/Commandant).


Like the other commissioned officer ranks, Congress limits the number of General Officers that can serve on active duty.

To be promoted to O-7, an officer must first complete a full tour in a Joint-Duty-Assignment (this is an assignment to a unit that is comprised of members from two or more of the services). This requirement can be waived, in some instances (10 USC, Sec 619a).

The mandatory retirement age for all general officers is 62 (this can be deferred to age 64 in some cases). Under the law (10 USC, Sec 635), an officer who has been promoted to O-7, but is not on the recommended list to O-8, must retire five years after promotion to O-7, or 30 years of active duty service, whichever is later.
An O-8 must retire five years after being promoted to O-8, or 35 years of service, whichever is greater (10 USC, Sec 636).

So it is very unlikely that Jack would have been promoted to Brigadier General and given command of the SGC had he not previously been placed on the recommended list.

As for Carter, in 2004 she had fifteen years in service and five years time in grade which would have also made her eligible for promotion to Lt. Colonel.

So you'll have to forgive me if I don't agree that they were given their promotions as a thank you instead of receiving a medal; because in my opinion they were both given their promotions because they had earned them.

And they shoould have received a medal. Jack the MoH and Sam different one for valor.

Suse

[SG-25B11]

Not a "get well soon" gift. A "thank you" for the service he gave to his country. It was probably thought, at the time, that his military career was done due to his injuries. O'neill's and Carter's careers were still continuing so they recieved promotions. I think it's assured that SG-1 will receive the same (even greater) recognition when it's all over.

I didn't see the flashbacks as over-selling Mitchell to the audience. I saw it as, this was Mitchell's involvement in past events. Everyone involved contributed to the victory that day. This was his contribution.

[Descent]

Not a "get well soon" gift. A "thank you" for the service he gave to his country. It was probably thought, at the time, that his military career was done due to his injuries. O'neill's and Carter's careers were still continuing so they recieved promotions. I think it's assured that SG-1 will receive the same (even greater) recognition when it's all over.

Thats a good point actually, thanks for bringing that up.

[SionnachOghma]

SAM

Major Accomplishments
Hathor - Saved Earth from enslavement when all the guys were already on their knees.
The Serpent's Lair - Played her part in saving Earth from Apophis and Klorel
A Matter Of Time - Prevented Earth being sucked into a black hole.
Message In A Bottle - Helped save Earth from alien parasite.
Show and Tell - Helped prevent the Reetou from annihalating mankind.
Foothold - Uncovered and foiled an alien incursion into the SGC and Earth.
Nemesis - Helped destroy most of the Replicators on Thor's ship.
Small Victories - Came up with the plan that saved the Asgard civilization. (Indirectly saving all planets covered by the Protected Planets Treaty, including Earth)
2001 - Tricked Aschen into revealing their plans for Earth and escaped to warn the SGC, saving the human race on Earth from being totally wiped out.
Failsafe - Flew an asteroid through Earth to avoid a catastrophic impact.
Redemption - Along with McKay and Jonas, came up with a plan to save Earth from a soon-to-explode stargate.
Nightwalkers - Prevented a small army of Goa'uld infesting Earth.
Grace - Was able to free Prometheus from a nebula and negotiate for the return of the captured crew.
Death Knell - Designed a weapon to combat Anubis' super-soldiers.
The Lost City - Commanded SG-1 as they searched for the weapon that would be used to defeat Anubis' forces.
Reckoning - Along with Jacob/Selmak and Ba'al, works out how to activate Ancient weapon and saves galaxy from Replicators

Rewards
Air Medal for Heroism - for saving Earth from an attack by Apophis
Commendation - for regaining control of the base from Hathor



MITCHELL

"Major Accomplishment"
The Lost City/Avalon - Was one of many pilots flying F-302s to provide cover for SG-1. Crashed F-302 halfway through fight.

Rewards
Congressional Medal Of Honor
Choice of posts.



Then again, Sam never needed a Congressional Medal of Honor to justify her place on SG-1. Neither did Jack. Or Daniel. Or Teal'c. Or Jonas...
...
...
...Or Rothman.

[Col.Foley]

A good percentage of those acomplishments you just mentioned were really a team effort, or greater then a team effort. I'm not saying Carter does not deserve a medal for all these events that she did. The example that comes to mind is the death knell which was hinted that the Tok'ra actually were the ones that did most of the designing. Or the Aschen incident, that was also a team effort, everyone participated in that plan.