Who should lead SG1?(Spoilers)

[Zelda]

For those of you who insist that Mitchell lacks the skills to lead his selected team -- I'm just going to ask flat out -- do you then believe that General's O'Neill and Landry plus the highest ranking Air Force Chief of Staff and also the Congressional oversight committee responsible for the Stargate funding, operation, and mission delineator -- are all incompetents? Is the Stargate program as dangerous and important to national as well as planet security as it is purported to be? Are all of these responsible entities dull-witted enough to jeopardize all that is at stake and risk the earth's demise? Sg1 is the front line team that interfaces with other species that could conceivably end our existence. No one with authority is going to put a team leader in place whom they do not have the greatest confidence will successfully obtain a given mission objective -- the stakes are too high.

Don't misunderstand -- I like the Sam character and admire her portrayal as being competent in many areas. She, however, left SG1 to pursue important research and only returned at Mitchell's behest. For some reason people think her being on Mitchell's team is a demotion. It isn't. It is currently where her field of expertise can be used to the best advantage.

[the dancer of spaz]

For those of you who insist that Mitchell lacks the skills to lead his selected team -- I'm just going to ask flat out -- do you then believe that General's O'Neill and Landry plus the highest ranking Air Force Chief of Staff and also the Congressional oversight committee responsible for the Stargate funding, operation, and mission delineator -- are all incompetents? Is the Stargate program as dangerous and important to national as well as planet security as it is purported to be? Are all of these responsible entities dull-witted enough to jeopardize all that is at stake and risk the earth's demise? Sg1 is the front line team that interfaces with other species that could conceivably end our existence. No one with authority is going to put a team leader in place whom they do not have the greatest confidence will successfully obtain a given mission objective -- the stakes are too high.

Don't misunderstand -- I like the Sam character and admire her portrayal as being competent in many areas. She, however, left SG1 to pursue important research and only returned at Mitchell's behest. For some reason people think her being on Mitchell's team is a demotion. It isn't. It is currently where her field of expertise can be used to the best advantage.

Hi Zelda. This train of thought was discussed and argued a while back. There are many different reasons that were suggested as to WHY the fictitious characters were written to disregard his lack of experience "for the greater good," despite what canon has suggested in the past. So, if you'd like to see a lot of our thoughts on this subject, if you check within the first fifty pages, I think you'll pretty good idea of where we're coming from.

[warmbeachbrat]

i SERIOUSLY doubt SG-1 was the only team available. there were plenty of opportunities to give him a post where he could learn about the stargate/offworld before he "learned from the best" (and possibly got them killed trying to lead him when he didn't know anything). and personally, if someone was trying to convince me to come back and work under them (minus ori threat), i would be much more inclined to come back to an experienced CO, rather than a pilot.

Well, I was thinking that because the best are on his team, he'd do less damage there and they would be able to best help him and be examples. Sorry, I'm not explaining it well.

you? snipped? but your av's a kitten! you can't be bad!
seriously though, that's odd. ::wonders what wbb could have said::

*sigh* Something I shouldn't have--I'm sorry for it. I shouldn't have mentioned it, either--I'm just...very embarrassed.

[ParadoxRealities]

[QUOTE=warmbeachbrat]Well, I was thinking that because the best are on his team, he'd do less damage there and they would be able to best help him and be examples. Sorry, I'm not explaining it well.[QUOTE]no, i see it. i just don't believe it.
i was thinking he'd do less damage if he wasn't on the front line team PERIOD. maybe he could start out on a team babysitting some peaceful diplomatic mission (i know, i know, they all go wrong. but its better than first-contact). then work his way up to dealing with most of offworld situations.
after all, he thought he has all the time in the universes (that convenient yet oh-so-small loll between wars). and even once the war started, did they really NEED him?
i think that might be my main problem (i know, i have to talk through these things), mitchell doesn't really have anything to give, IMO, he's not NEEDED. there are plenty of experienced offworld officers that could/SHOULD have gotten that opening/team. but mitchell got shot down. so he wins.

[warmbeachbrat]

i think that might be my main problem (i know, i have to talk through these things), mitchell doesn't really have anything to give, IMO, he's not NEEDED. there are plenty of experienced offworld officers that could/SHOULD have gotten that opening/team. but mitchell got shot down. so he wins.

Well, but do they NEED anyone? I suppose they could function quite well as a three person team, but what happens after? What happens when Teal'c decides he's needed more on Dakara than at the SGC? What happens when Daniel finally gets to Atlantis? (What happens when Sam settles down with Jack and produces little O'Neill's? Sorry--couldn't resist!) Eventually, they are going to have to have new members on the team. Maybe SG-1 needs Mitchell (blasphemy, I know! ). Maybe they need to learn how to integrate other members into their team framework. Maybe they need to figure out what they're going to do when one of them leaves (or--perish the thought--dies). Perhaps this is a two-way street: Mitchell learning from SG-1 and SG-1 learning from Mitchell.

[ParadoxRealities]

Well, but do they NEED anyone? I suppose they could function quite well as a three person team, but what happens after? What happens when Teal'c decides he's needed more on Dakara than at the SGC? What happens when Daniel finally gets to Atlantis? (What happens when Sam settles down with Jack and produces little O'Neill's? Sorry--couldn't resist!) Eventually, they are going to have to have new members on the team. Maybe SG-1 needs Mitchell (blasphemy, I know! ). Maybe they need to learn how to integrate other members into their team framework. Maybe they need to figure out what they're going to do when one of them leaves (or--perish the thought--dies). Perhaps this is a two-way street: Mitchell learning from SG-1 and SG-1 learning from Mitchell.

ok, i'm confused. i said they DID need someone because i was responding to you, but you say they don't?
i know they need to be flexible, people will always leave. but why mitchell? he himself is not needed. if they need to learn to intregrate new people, why not someone with more experience? someone with a skill to offer? are they REALLY going to replace teal'c/daniel (sam being highly controversial) with a person of little/no experience/expertise? if they want/need a 4th member, why mitchell? why not someone like (now) capt. hailey?

[warmbeachbrat]

ok, i'm confused. i said they DID need someone because i was responding to you, but you say they don't?
i know they need to be flexible, people will always leave. but why mitchell? he himself is not needed. if they need to learn to intregrate new people, why not someone with more experience? someone with a skill to offer? are they REALLY going to replace teal'c/daniel (sam being highly controversial) with a person of little/no experience/expertise? if they want/need a 4th member, why mitchell? why not someone like (now) capt. hailey?

Now, I'M confused! I think I've lost track of the argument....

Let me see if I can figure out what I want to say.... Nope! Can't right now--Drat! I feel so stupid. I'll get back to you when I have a little more time to think about it.

[ParadoxRealities]

Now, I'M confused! I think I've lost track of the argument....

Let me see if I can figure out what I want to say.... Nope! Can't right now--Drat! I feel so stupid. I'll get back to you when I have a little more time to think about it.

<breathes> ok, lets see if i can do this.
one of my problems with s9 is...that mitchell really has nothing unique to give to the team....he doesn't have experience of relevant skills...he could easily have been replaced by just many other more capable/experienced off world officers...he doesn't even serve to teach the team how to adapt to knew members...because any other above officer could do that too. there! did i do it?

please note i am TOTALLY ignoring the whole shot down/CMOH/pick your post/she left a week ago thing.

[warmbeachbrat]

<breathes> ok, lets see if i can do this.
one of my problems with s9 is...that mitchell really has nothing unique to give to the team....he doesn't have experience of relevant skills...he could easily have been replaced by just many other more capable/experienced off world officers...he doesn't even serve to teach the team how to adapt to knew members...because any other above officer could do that too. there! did i do it?

please note i am TOTALLY ignoring the whole shot down/CMOH/pick your post/she left a week ago thing.

Oh heavens, it's not you--it's me! I get what you're saying. My immediate problem is I can't quite figure out what I'm arguing--I think I've conflated two arguments and I need to sort it out in my mind before I can go any further. Thanks for your patience.

Oh! I forgot to ask in my last post--when did Hailey become a captain? I'm not remembering that....

[ParadoxRealities]

Oh heavens, it's not you--it's me! I get what you're saying. My immediate problem is I can't quite figure out what I'm arguing--I think I've conflated two arguments and I need to sort it out in my mind before I can go any further. Thanks for your patience.

Oh! I forgot to ask in my last post--when did Hailey become a captain? I'm not remembering that....

canon she didn't. i was using her as an example of the type of officer that could serve on SG-1. sorry, should have clarified.

and take your time. i've been there. ::glances at shipper thread:: i AM there.

[scarimor]

you? snipped? but your av's a kitten! you can't be bad!
seriously though, that's odd. ::wonders what wbb could have said::

It was mostly my quote within wbb's post that was snipped - wbb isn't to blame for it really

[scarimor]

ok, i'm confused. i said they DID need someone because i was responding to you, but you say they don't?
i know they need to be flexible, people will always leave. but why mitchell? he himself is not needed. if they need to learn to intregrate new people, why not someone with more experience? someone with a skill to offer? are they REALLY going to replace teal'c/daniel (sam being highly controversial) with a person of little/no experience/expertise? if they want/need a 4th member, why mitchell? why not someone like (now) capt. hailey?

We could try to rationalise it this way: if Stargate Command and those above assumed they'd be doing a lot more aerospace stuff instead of 'gate-travel, with building the new Earth ships and 302's and using them more, then an officer who brought exceptional flying skills (if that's what Cameron has) might be a reasonable choice at the time they thought Earth's main threats were defeated.

(season 9 did use the ships rather a lot compared to previous seasons - though I think the writers are pushing more 'gate stories from now on)

Mallozzi rationalised the non-'gate-experienced SG team leader with the notion that the Brass assumed the galaxy was a safe place now that the Goa'uld and Replicators had been defeated.

(this also allows for Sam to pursue Area 51, Daniel to pursue Atlantis, and Teal'c to Jaff-politick)

What doesn't make as much sense is having Sam, Daniel and Teal'c stay on to fight the Ori threat because it's so bad instead of pursuing what seemed more important to them than more SGC after eight years (Daniel did miss his ship to Atlantis, but he still had to be persuaded not to go and do something else anyway), yet keep the inexperienced co-leader on that flagship front-line team that's tasked with the brunt of such a job - unless the co-leader-ness bit of it is meant to account for that discrepancy; which I can make it do as long as they keep writing that.

Did that make any sense? Remotely?

[ParadoxRealities]

sure, i'll go with that. plus they wanted to focus more on r&d than recon, so sam went/was sent to 51. still don't like the co-leader thing, though.

[warmbeachbrat]

What scarimor said!


*...still thinking....*

[TameFarrar]

Really? I did not know that. Honestly. I... what do officers who are second-in-command do then, just stay second in command their entire careers?

Asked Hubs.... If the incoming Ofc outranks them...yes

ETA: just read your post regarding how silly this is..

Well I can't argue there But it does happen all the time in our Military and in front line Units even if we don't want to think it does. Speaking from experience as Hubs is