Who should lead SG1?(Spoilers)

[Lightsabre]

this is taking some liberties with the evidence, i think. in avalon, mitchell is told that he is the only member of sg-1 and has to pick a new team. he chooses to try to get the old team back together so that he can join them, not as a leader, but just a member of the team. given the fact that there is no mention of command following this, and that he wanted to get the old team back so that he could join them, i could just as easily argue that carter is leading. but i'm not.

Hmm, well since Landry says 'Your here to LEAD SG-1', I think Mitchell is leader.
THAT is cannon.
There is never ANYTHING said about him not being leader whent eh other 3 rejoin.

[stargate barbie]

Okay, it seems you're saying that because Mitchell wanted to join SG1, that when he put a team together that consisted of the original SG1 that meant that he ended up joining them, not leading them. But, it seems to me that if Landry said that Mitchell was going to lead SG1, than his word has more precedence over Mitchell's. And, Landry didn't put any boundaries or stipulations on it. He didn't say, "You're here to lead SG1, unless you somehow manage to get Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c to come back, in which case you'll be working as co-lead or under Sam." So, to me, the fact that Mitchell didn't want to be the lead doesn't say that he isn't. To me, Landry's words are the ones that count. And, unless he said that Mitchell's leadership is only contingent on the original members not being a part of the team, I don't believe that's what he meant.

well you're a lot closer to getting what i'm saying than LS so far, so i'll explain further in response to you. mitchell said, i'm here to join sg-1. landry said, nope they left, your the only member at the moment, you're here to lead.

cameron asked them to reconsider their decision, and to come back to the sgc so that he could join the team that he requested to join. this went around for about 7 episodes or so, until he succeeded in his goal.

now you are right in saying that landry did not say, lead under these conditions. landry accepted that the team had disbanded, and that was that. cameron was not happy with this, and did not want to accept it. he wanted to join the original team.

eventually they got back together, including cameron. it is not made totally clear in the show, the conditions of the team structure. they chose to make that scene silent.

any of the interpretations that i stated can be made, and probably many more, however the one that i've chosen to accept is based on my own interpretations of what i've seen on screen in each episode that has followed, combined with the statements issued by TPTB of the show.

in my opinion cameron and sam are the co-leaders of sg-1, based on my above statements, and those which have come before. in my opinion, sam carter should be the team leader, with cameron learning from her (and daniels and teal'cs) experiences. in my opinion. hence my vote.

i appreciate your post, as it seems well thought out and respectful.

[binkpmmc]

But I highly resent the notion of your assumption that because I'm a Carter fan, I must not like Mitchell. It's just not true. If anything, as a Scaper, I was hoping to adore him. So don't try to psychoanalyze me because you don't know me at all. The thing is, mindbogglingly stupid decisions by the PTB, bad writing and poor character integration has made him a very weak character. He doesn't seem to have the traits one would expect of a leader. And it's not just Carter fans who've noticed this...I've seen others on other boards who DETEST Carter share the same dislike for his development.

I agree Über - I too liked BB in FS for seasons 1-3 (thought 4 was a waste and stopped watching then) and wanted to like him and his character here. Truth is the character is a mess and a disgrace. TPTB have done absolutely no favors for BB and have done worse for the character of mitchell. He is not anywhere near the caliber of soldier that one would expect as co-leader on a team that consists of the BIG 3 or from a strong, intelligent show that was Stargate SG-1 for 8 years, IMO - it is a shame that TPTB new vision for the show is such a shallow, lowered version.

It is also very interesting how some mitchell supporters use sweeping genearlizations to allegedly "support" their opinions as they are clueless about what motivates some people on this forum, including me. The fact that I was a BB fan and wanted to like him must surprise "some" but truth is what TPTB have done has made me despise mitchell as a character because he is polar opposite to the caliber one has seen on SG-1 for 8 years and the decision-making on this character has been mindbogglingly bad, IMO of course. I feel sorry for BB - he once said that how his character is perceived at the "end of S9" would say a lot. Well it is too bad that his character is actually seen in a worse light at the end of the season than he was in the first episode. I have seen untold numbers of fans, on very diverse forums, make the same statements about mitchell having digressed and been an arse and that he is not a team player.

TPTB had 20 episodes to make this work and all they did was drag the character, and the show, down even further. The fact that this poll is clearly running heavily in favor of Carter, after 20 episodes to introduce and push their shiny new toy, is not a surprise due to how mitchell is perceived and not accepted, across many forums, not just here. I have seen several forums go from touting and glorifying mitchell in the first 8 or so episodes to saying: he shouldn't be co-leader, he should be a subordinate on the team, and he shouldn't even be on the team and some of these are forums dedicated to the complete and total hatred of Carter so you would think they would sink their teeth into mitchell taking her place at any cost - but alas even some of these die-hard Carter haters recognize a very poorly written and conceived character when they see it. That aspect of this is probably the most surprising to me and when I first saw that happening I realized that my disgust with mitchell, while I am a fan of Carter's, were not based on a bias as I thought they might be. The fact that so many fans on so many diverse forums with so many differing "favorites" or biases on SG-1 could see the flaws with the character and how he is written and portrayed made me feel better because it was not only me feeling that way so it could not have been that I was a "Carter fan" alone - so many people from so many different factions of fandom helped me understand it was bigger than any bias, especially the fact that I could read posts from die-hard Carter haters that said the same exact things I said or thought about the character of mitchell and that they could dislike the character and what he stands for as much as I do.

[stargate barbie]

Hmm, well since Landry says 'Your here to LEAD SG-1', I think Mitchell is leader.
THAT is cannon.
There is never ANYTHING said about him not being leader whent eh other 3 rejoin.

regardless of everything that has happened since that episode?

fair enough, then thats your opinion. i've already stated the reasons for why i think cameron and sam are co-leaders.

and i've stated and debated why i think sam should be leader, which is what this poll/thread is all about.

[STARGATE7777]

This seems to be an epidemic sweeping across GW where people feel that everyone has ulterior motives for liking or disliking something or someone. I detest Mitchell (true) so I must like _________ in my case Jack (which is also true). Both statements are true but they are mutually exclusive from one another.

Believe me, from what they have given us in season 9 from Mitchell's character,
I don't need another reason.

[[email protected]]

I agree with you...and minigeek, that was an excellent breakdown. Right on all counts.

Two thumbs up to you both!

Oh, my answer? Samantha Carter without question.

here here, there is no way that cam would have been given comand to such a highly respected group of people. comming from a pilot to a comand situation of that proportion is unfathomable, no off-world experience and command of sg1??? on a softer note he just doesnt make you smile as much as jack, at least when carter tries to be funny you can laugh at her, cam you just think..... what???

Short and curley is S8 finaly should have been stargate gone public, SGA could still have continued with even more freedom

[RealmOfX]

Ah ok.
No, actions aren't solely linked to experience. But my point was that the actions are no more acceptable in an experienced person than an inexperienced.
So the main problem is his actions, NOT his experience.

You still do not get the point.

It is not logical (in my opinion) to say "IF you would accept Dixon in command if he took the same actions, then you are essentially saying you don't count gate experience as something needed for command."

Just because I agree that I would have a problem with any officer acting exactly like him does not mean that that agreement negates the other reasons I have for him not leading.

[Lightsabre]

well you're a lot closer to getting what i'm saying than LS so far, so i'll explain further in response to you. mitchell said, i'm here to join sg-1. landry said, nope they left, your the only member at the moment, you're here to lead.

cameron asked them to reconsider their decision, and to come back to the sgc so that he could join the team that he requested to join. this went around for about 7 episodes or so, until he succeeded in his goal.

So he called himself SG Leader in Prototype because??
Mitchell was not leader as long as the others didn't come back or until he got them to join. Mitchell was made SG-1 leader.
He wanted to be part of the team he wanted to join, but the team was not disbanded a second time, the other 3 joined Mitchell.

now you are right in saying that landry did not say, lead under these conditions. landry accepted that the team had disbanded, and that was that. cameron was not happy with this, and did not want to accept it. he wanted to join the original team.

No actually, he wanted to work with the members of the original team. He did not say, in 'Avalon', that he wanted Carter back to lead, but rather, that he wanted her back.
There is a difference.

eventually they got back together, including cameron. it is not made totally clear in the show, the conditions of the team structure. they chose to make that scene silent.

Mitchell was giving out the patches. Which implies he was already there.
Not to mention he went to each of them and said 'rejoin SG-1', not 'COme back so I can join your team'.

any of the interpretations that i stated can be made, and probably many more, however the one that i've chosen to accept is based on my own interpretations of what i've seen on screen in each episode that has followed, combined with the statements issued by TPTB of the show.

Sadly, the comments of TPTB are NOT considered cannon.

in my opinion cameron and sam are the co-leaders of sg-1, based on my above statements, and those which have come before. in my opinion, sam carter should be the team leader, with cameron learning from her (and daniels and teal'cs) experiences. in my opinion. hence my vote.

I believe joe, cause why would he lie? HOwever, teh cannon of the show does not say that. It's said, clearly that Mitchell is leader. Now while we could look at other scenes, those are interpretive and as we've proven by the patch scene, what you see is not what I see. We need a clear statement and the only one we have is from 'Avalon'.

i appreciate your post, as it seems well thought out and respectful.

[Madeleine]

Quick note - if anyone is particularly keen to have a personal dispute, have it via e-mail or PM. Not in the public threads.

(Myself, I wouldn't have the time. I have grouting and painting to do.)

[scarimor]

... Short and curley is...

lol! love the mixed metaphors - very amusing

... S8 finaly should have been stargate gone public, SGA could still have continued with even more freedom

Interesting idea.

[Formerhost]

So he called himself SG Leader in Prototype because??
Mitchell was not leader as long as the others didn't come back or until he got them to join. Mitchell was made SG-1 leader.
He wanted to be part of the team he wanted to join, but the team was not disbanded a second time, the other 3 joined Mitchell.

No actually, he wanted to work with the members of the original team. He did not say, in 'Avalon', that he wanted Carter back to lead, but rather, that he wanted her back.
There is a difference.

Mitchell was giving out the patches. Which implies he was already there.
Not to mention he went to each of them and said 'rejoin SG-1', not 'COme back so I can join your team'.

Sadly, the comments of TPTB are NOT considered cannon.

I believe joe, cause why would he lie? HOwever, teh cannon of the show does not say that. It's said, clearly that Mitchell is leader. Now while we could look at other scenes, those are interpretive and as we've proven by the patch scene, what you see is not what I see. We need a clear statement and the only one we have is from 'Avalon'.

It seems like the only person among writing staff who wants Mitchell to be the leader is RCC and he made it clear in Avalon 1-2, Origin and Crusade, I wonder why Joe and the rest are against this idea? 'cause it's their writing that's causing interpretation problems.

[DEM]

It seems like the only person among writing staff who wants Mitchell to be the leader is RCC and he made it clear in Avalon 1-2, Origin and Crusade

(Ignoring the episodes that occurred before Lt Col Carter was re-reassigned to the SGC) Crusade?? The ep where they did nothing but sit around hanging on to Vala's every word? Do tell.

I wonder why Joe and the rest are against this idea? 'cause it's their writing that's causing interpretation problems.

Isn't RCC supposed to be the Head Writer?

Course, we could always look at things the the other way around: It's RCC's writing that's caused the problems. RCC is credited with 4 scripts (1-3 and 19); M&M are credited with 7, and AM with 4.

Really, it's whoever is supposed to be running the show that's caused the problem by failing to address the issue directly in Ex Deus Machina or any episode since.

[the dancer of spaz]

Further, your argument is based on the fallacious assumption that the only people who have a problem with Mitchell are diehard Carter fans...and that also is not true.

Seriously. Like DEM mentioned a few days ago... it is nearly impossible for 345 "diehard" character fans to be in one forum at one time. As popular as the character is, and as Sam-friendly as this site is, it's highly unlikely.

[minigeek]

Sadly, the comments of TPTB are NOT considered cannon.

So who's been writing the series then, if not TPTB? Script Elves?

[the dancer of spaz]

So who's been writing the series then, if not TPTB? Script Elves?

Oh man! I read on JM's blog that they were paper weight fairies. WTH is that about?

Really, it's whoever is supposed to be running the show that's caused the problem by failing to address the issue directly in Ex Deus Machina or any episode since.

Oddly enough, that would be good, ol' Coop. He's the showrunner of this show while Brad Wright has (sadly) taken on Atlantis.

Luckily that'll be changing a bit next season, right?