Did the Ori perfect project Arcturus?

[whitepinkbun]

Hay guys this is my first post, just signed up. I was thinking and hows this for a theory perhaps they channel there exotic particals into a self contained region of subspace much like how they draw ZPE from a ZPM they just jam the particals into a "ZPM" type device lol... then again why the hell didn't the ancients do that if thats the case... xDD

Considering what I've seen project Arcturus is just vacuum energy from our space time as apposed to a self contained region of subspace. so I'm guessing because a ZPM uses ZPE also.. then it must create exotic partials inside this region of subspace... yeah?

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Welcome to Gateworld whitepinkbun, the subspace tap in Daedalus Variations wasn't said to create exotic matter particals and that was constantly drawing energy from subspace, kinda like a ZPM does only not from a contained region, maybe it has something to do with the amount of energy you try to tap at any one time or it could be with Acturus the act of drawing vacuum energy from the space you live in is what causes the exotic particles to form, I think Zelenka may have sad something like that in Trinity.
TBH since the ST seemed pretty safe (no overload or anything was mentioned) containing a region of subspace time seems a little unnecessary too me.

My guess would be that the Ori's ships power source isn't a perfected Acturus but an advanced ST, it could be an Ori version of a ZPM or anything else you can imagine really as it was never confirmed on the show to my recollection.

[Galactic Lego]

First of all drones do not take all of the power of the united states to fire. In that episode it was state that they never had a ZPM in the alternite reality that wasnt depleted. therefore they would have to rig up a system to power the chair. however this system would not be ass advanced or a powerfull. i would estimate that most of the power was just run off used to push the rest of the power through like when mckay boosted the power to the shield of atlanticed becaue the repilcators dammaged it making it less efficient.

Secondly the acturus device did not explode because of the exotic particles, they merely cause it to spin out of control. the excess energy build up cause the acturus device to explode because it had nowhere to go.

Thirdly the ori could have perefected the acturus devies. The ball of energy could possibly be the drain that kept it from overloading on their battlecrusiers. Also the ori might have found a uninhabited universe to send the exotic particles to just like in the episode "mckay and mrs miller" (although that universe was inhabited).

[TrueLordOfNetu]

I think the Ori have perfected project Arcturus

Argument 1
Carter says that even a ZPM couldn't power the Ori shield in 'Beachhead'
McKay says Arcturus makes ZPMs look like Alkaine batteries.
Argument 2
Problem 1 with Arcturus; you cannot predict the unpredictable
Not for the Ori, remember, they aren't bound by our space-time.
Argument 3
Problem 2 with Arcturus, we have to live in our space-time, so extracting zero-point energy is tricky.
Remember, Ori don't live in our space-time, and Orlin says they sap energy from their followers. You startin' to get it?

If anyone has any disagreements or additional comments, please voice them.
I think this is cool.

Sorry if this has already been stated but i'm sort of jumping in at the end here.

Argument 1: The Ori shield in beachhead was initially powered by the Priors staff then boosted by the weapons fired upon it by the local Jaffa then the MK9 and the Jaffa/Tauri bombardment which completed it.

Arguments 2 & 3: The Ori don't reside in our space time but their followers do and it is them that would have to construct it. Not the best idea for the Ori to give their followers advanced tech which would kill a large number if not all of them in it's implementation.

[whitepinkbun]

Hmmm, Well hows this maybe they did have there own ZPM version... Just bigger I mean bigger region of subspace more energy? makes sense not to mention they seam to want to be like yet better then the ancient in ways kinda like the whole ascension thing. ^^ lol but then again who's to say they didn't find a way to prefect Arcturus guess we may never know!

Thanks for the warm welcome ^.^ like my signature I made it last night !



Galactic Lego
First of all drones do not take all of the power of the united states to fire. In that episode it was state that they never had a ZPM in the alternite reality that wasnt depleted. therefore they would have to rig up a system to power the chair. however this system would not be ass advanced or a powerfull.


I'm with you on this remember in season 2 of SGA they power the chair with a enhanced naquadah generator right?...

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Hmmm, Well hows this maybe they did have there own ZPM version... Just bigger I mean bigger region of subspace more energy? makes sense not to mention they seam to want to be like yet better then the ancient in ways kinda like the whole ascension thing. ^^ lol but then again who's to say they didn't find a way to prefect Arcturus guess we may never know!

Thanks for the warm welcome ^.^ like my signature I made it last night !

I don't know why the Ori's ZPMs, if they have them would have to be any bigger or better than the Ancients, all they'd need is something powerful enough to power their tech to it's best and a regular ZPM could probably do that, especially if their ship's systems were very power efficient, which I'd expect them to be.
Besides what's been said how about a ZPM that can isolate multiple regions of subspace time, like just before one is depleted of energy another is isolated and so on and so forth, considering how Odyssey can Pwn a few Ori Cruisers and take so much of a pounding from them (particularly in AoT) I doubt they have anything better than a ZPM.
Personally I'm sticking with the more refined ST theory, Alt-Daedalus's was enough to jump it to another universe and that could have been a first edition of the tech, so a more refined version or a few of them could provide way more energy than is needed and the weird glowing light in their power cores could just be an advanced capacitor for energy storage.

It sounds to me like Acturus could never be made to work, simply because the act of drawing vacuum energy from real space created the exotic particles, where as STs and probably ZPMs don't appear to have that problem to start with.

BTW you're welcome whitepinkbun, your sig made me laugh, have some green.

Galactic Lego
First of all drones do not take all of the power of the united states to fire. In that episode it was state that they never had a ZPM in the alternite reality that wasnt depleted. therefore they would have to rig up a system to power the chair. however this system would not be ass advanced or a powerfull.

In The Road Not Taken wasn't the power of the country needed to power Merlin's out of phase tech?
I just thought the Drone platform depleted the ZPM so much that it couldn't be used for Merlin's tech.

I'm with you on this remember in season 2 of SGA they power the chair with a enhanced naquadah generator right?...

Yeah Puddle Jumpers and Auroras can control/fire Drones and they don't have ZPMs as standard, if Mark 2 Naqueda generators can power the chair and fire Drones it can't require that much power to do it's job, certainly not ZPM levels.

[Betelgeuze]

No. I think that in order for the Arcturus project to work one would have to draw an infinitely small amount of power from an infinite number of universes. This is what the alternate reality Carter in The Road Not Taken i think was trying to do. If the Ori would have succeded in this they would have ininite power, it would be impossible to disable their shields from the outside. So their ships would have been unbeatable.

The shield in Beachhead might have been powered by the stargate,the proir was touching the stargate if i remember correctly he might have had some way of channeling this energy into a shield. Maybe the stargate on the other en was near a black hole? The Ori might have had some way of just drawing power from it without having the gravittion and time dilation effecting the gate on the other end.

The Ori themselves do live in the same space-time as corporeal beings, but they exist as a form of energy. At least that's how i understand it.

[Alteran of Atlantis]

No, the Ori could not have perfected Arcturus, at least that's my opinion. They're not in our space-time, but thier followers are. So if something went wrong with the device, it would affect their followers, and their followers are the ones feeding their power. So I don't think that would happen.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

No. I think that in order for the Arcturus project to work one would have to draw an infinitely small amount of power from an infinite number of universes. This is what the alternate reality Carter in The Road Not Taken i think was trying to do. If the Ori would have succeded in this they would have ininite power, it would be impossible to disable their shields from the outside. So their ships would have been unbeatable.

Zelenka said Acturas may not have been safe at any power level tapping from our universe alone, so no matter how much power big or small you try to tap it would still create exotic particles because you live in the same area you're trying to channel energy from.
With Carter's device that was gonna tap vacuum energy from multiple other space times for a short period of time each and then the connections would be switched off and moved to another set of space times, but that's not making Acturas work, it's a different design for a similar concept, tapping power from a variety of space times.
Just because the Ori's shields weren't unbeatable that doesn't necessarily mean they weren't being powered by an unlimited energy source, it means that weapons such as the Asgard's Plasma Beams were able to break down or penetrate those fields before the Ori's shield generators or emitters could replace the barrier or repair any holes in the field that were created.

The shield in Beachhead might have been powered by the stargate,the proir was touching the stargate if i remember correctly he might have had some way of channeling this energy into a shield. Maybe the stargate on the other en was near a black hole? The Ori might have had some way of just drawing power from it without having the gravittion and time dilation effecting the gate on the other end.

The energy was as far as I recall, said to be being channeled through the Stargate, either the energy field may have been fed through the Stargate or the Ori had a generator on the planet, I doubt the Prior himself could create a field that large with say his staff and the shield continued to expand after he was probably dead from the Naq-Nuke explosion which would mean his staff was probably destroyed too, since we saw no signs of huge generators on the planet's surface I'd take it that the shield was sent through the Stargate and the barrier was increased incrementally with weapons fire fueling it further to gauge how much power was needed to complete the barrier, I think Carter said something like that in the episode.

The Ori themselves do live in the same space-time as corporeal beings, but they exist as a form of energy. At least that's how i understand it.

The Ori exist as the Ancients now do (in the Stargate universe anyway) in another plane of existence or dimension, like hyperspace is another dimension in the sci-fi universes.

[wkw427]

It is powered by the giant plothole

Or the Ori were powering it... The ori WERE pure energy, right?

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

It is powered by the giant plothole

I'd buy that just as much as any theory.

Or the Ori were powering it... The ori WERE pure energy, right?

I think the Ancients, or any other ascended beings in our Universe may class that as a form of direct interference and we all know how they don't like that kind of thing.

I think their ships have to be powered by some kind of technological method that the Ori could have discovered in a corporeal state otherwise it's pretty much the same as them reaching out with their ascended influence and effecting things directly, so no ascended being created shields, weapons or power sources are likely IMO and there's also the fact that they didn't want to share power, so why use their energy when another naturally occurring source could be tapped instead?

[SoulReaver]

It is powered by the giant plothole

that must be it
it's similar to a blackhole but better



anyway it's very doubtful their powersource was Arcturus, otherwise their shields would not have been depleted so quickly by the asgard weapons in Unending

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

SoulRe@ver the Ori's shield generators or emitters are probably just like any other race's, they still have a physical limit regardless of the power source they use and can only replace so much of the barrier that is depleted by weapons fire before holes start to form or the thing's completely gone, just like Atlantis with the ZPM powered Hive in Enemy At The Gate that nearly dropped it's shields.

Even if the Ori's ships had some kind of infinite energy source if their shields are only designed to handle a certain amount of stress an uber energy source wouldn't make a difference as it's the shields that do the work in the end.

I doubt the fact of how fast the Odyssey's Asgard Beam weapons can break through Ori shields shows any lack of power generation on the Ori's part, just a lack of shields capable of repelling those kind of weapons and the stress they put their shields through.

[SoulReaver]

remember Siege ? the cityship's shields are fed by the powersource itself without using an intermediate buffer ("shield generators") meaning as long as there's power in the ZPM the shields are up

if a ZPM can do this then a powersource such as Arcturus could easily power directly the shields of a warship even in space. the power output of such a powersource combined with nearly unlimited energy supply would've meant unlimited shielding, especially considering that the beam weapons* used against them were only powered by either a ZPM or an asgard core (at best, both)
in other words with Arcturus their shields would never even have been depleted


(*) assuming those weapons were bound by the fundamental law of conservation of energy, of course :|

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

remember Siege ? the cityship's shields are fed by the powersource itself without using an intermediate buffer ("shield generators") meaning as long as there's power in the ZPM the shields are up

if a ZPM can do this then a powersource such as Arcturus could easily power directly the shields of a warship even in space. the power output of such a powersource combined with nearly unlimited energy supply would've meant unlimited shielding, especially considering that the beam weapons* used against them were only powered by either a ZPM or an asgard core (at best, both)
in other words with Arcturus their shields would never even have been depleted


(*) assuming those weapons were bound by the fundamental law of conservation of energy, of course :|

In The Siege the Wraith fleet wasn't able to overcome whatever ability Atlantis's shields had to replace whatever damage the Wraith's fleet did to it's barrier.
Every piece of tech has a limit, this is perfectly evidenced by Atlantis getting it's butt kicked by a ship that has one ZPM, when it itself has 3 of the things and we're as good as told by Sheppard that the ZPMs aren't completely depleted by the end of Enemy At The Gate.
Even pumping power directly into shield generators they can only make use of so much energy, things like conduits can only send so much power and shields can only replace so much of their depleted field before they are gone and you hit what's underneath like the hull.

If the Ori designed their ships with the Goauld and regular pre-Unending Asgard tech in mind then it wouldn't matter if they had a working Acturus or a ZPM/St equivalent if they're designed to hold back a certain amount of damage then that's all they could hold back and obviously APBWs are breaking through that limit.
Shields aren't magical endlessly powerful things when you power them fully, they go until they reach their limits.