The Technology of Ascension

[LiquidBlue]

I hope I do this right. I wish to discuss the implications of something revealed in a recent episode without having it swamped in the episode thread. Just as a note out, we have had many references in past seasons concerning the research of ascension. Therefore I do not believe that the thread title, "The Technology of Ascension" is in itself spoily.

Spoiler:

In "Prototype," SG-1 discovered a machine Anubis used to manipulate the DNA of a man who possessed his own genetic memories. It was revealed that the machine was programmed to administer a series of treatments, the end result being a person who is independently capable of accension.

Has SG-1 discovered a Ascension Machine(TM)?

*I noticed another thread that discussed giving the ATA gene to SG teams. Could this machine not be used to ensure that a person reliably received the gene? On a related note, is there no such machine as this on Atlantis?

Moderators: Please do with this thread as appropriate.

[uknesvuinng]

Atlantis possibly has some means of genetic manipulation laying around. I would find it hard to believe that there was a single gene that was convieniently on found in the people who were to operate technology requiring ATA. The gene was probably designed and introduced as a key to the tech. While such a means to do this could have been left behind in the Milky Way, it's more likely they took such means with them to Pegasus considering the long term nature of the mission. They may have taken it back to the Milky Way upon abandoning Pegasus. Still, it's entirely possible that such a device awaits discovery in Atlantis.

[MarshAngel]

Even if there is such a machine I don't think the ancients would need to take it with them to Pegasus unless it can be used for other purposes. If humans are any indication, the genes can be passed on, so if several million years ago the ancients all gave themselves the gene as a key to their technology, then by the time they got to Pegasus they'd all have it and could pass it on without using the machines again.

What I'm curious about is if the Ancients had the technology to manipulate their evolution untill they could ascend, why did it take them so long? Did they reach the level on their own or did they all have to undergo manipulated evolution to get there?

[Heaven]

the machine can alter a person's DNA but u need to know where you want to go with this
nirriti tried to make an advanced host by isolating and combining advanced characteristics in humans but obviously it didnt work very well
you cant just plug into it and have it evolve you
they may have used it to get certain less advanced people say kalek's level to ascension level similar to their fellow ancients or to introduce the ata gene but not to evolve themselves in random direction
thinking about it now.. that machine could porbably turn wraith back into human or the other way around

one can understand why the ancients would study ascension seeing as they believe further ascension is possible

btw did anyone notice when carter was checking kalek's advancement on the machine it said in ancient:
life
endless

[NakedJehutyV2]

well they gotta know how to use it. otherwise remember nirrti's experiments.

tho i doubt the US Government would let that stop them

[LiquidBlue]

True, it is quite clear that this machine doesn't evolve people towards some higher state of being or complexity. It appears that it is some sort of advance medical device capable of sequencing and changing human DNA. It would be very useful to any society that would desire to analyze and manipulate DNA. (Epiphany: See below). That being the case I would be surprised that the didn't have the equivalent on Atlantis. I would even consider it a major inconsistenty. Unfortunately, such a machine might be too useful. How long would "Conversion" have lasted, is they could have simply popped him in, and returned his DNA to normal.

The reason I called it an "ascension machine" is because what it is programmed to do. Apparantly it was programmed with those changes that would be needed to make in Kalek's DNA so that he would have the power to ascend. It is true that the ability to manipulate DNA is not useful without the knowledge of what to change. But the machine is already programmed to make the appropriate changes.


---


Epiphany: Orlin was hampered by the tools he had available as he tried to develop a cure for the plague. Would this machine not have been useful to him.

[ckwongau]

Anubis's machine is similar to Niirti's DNA machine,
Remember when Niirti experiment on SG1, all of them felt sick , except Jonas.Partly because Jonas wasn't from Earth, and he is a bit more advance .But Jonas did suffer the side effect later on, he was able to see the future ,but also got a big turmor in his brain .Once the turmor was remove , he lost that abilities.

May be the DNA machine 's affect reduce as the test subject become more advance.
So as advance as the Ancient were, the DNA machine effect was miminal to them.

[JanusAncient]

Anubis created that machine, Nirrti seemed to be just using discovered Ancient technology. I do wonder, Orlin said that he did not think that the others, would help him to ascend once more, if he already knows how to ascend, can he not use this machine to evolve to a point, where he can ascend without the help of the other ascended.

I think that many of the Ancients, reached the level to ascend on their own. They researched it for the reason as Anubis, how evolved would a person have to be to consciously ascend, without having to die, inclusion, so that all of the Ancients could ascend without aid, many of them probably weren't able to ascend on their own, so they needed to know the exact requirements for ascension.

[Iguana775]

So, can anyone just sit in the machine? Why not ask for some volunters to test out the machine and see what happens? lol

[Mclogan]

One thing i notice on 9E09, Daniel steps in the DNA machine for a second there. Would that change his DNA?

[creed462]

Anubis created that machine, Nirrti seemed to be just using discovered Ancient technology. I do wonder, Orlin said that he did not think that the others, would help him to ascend once more, if he already knows how to ascend, can he not use this machine to evolve to a point, where he can ascend without the help of the other ascended.

I think that many of the Ancients, reached the level to ascend on their own. They researched it for the reason as Anubis, how evolved would a person have to be to consciously ascend, without having to die, inclusion, so that all of the Ancients could ascend without aid, many of them probably weren't able to ascend on their own, so they needed to know the exact requirements for ascension.

I think Orlin was only to come back as a human like us, and not as he was when he was an Anchient

[RalCaladan]

SGA S2 second half

Spoiler:

There is an Atlantis episode in the second half called (ironically enough) "Epiphany" that could theoretically show us where the device is, as it features a "fast-time" world with Ancients who are trying to ascend. Maybe that device is there (trying to keep all the ascension stuff in one place?)

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

I think it is significant that Anubis started futzing with this tech after he had ascended and was forcibly - but only partially - descended.

There's no doubt that Anubis was waaay further along in his scientific research and development than Sam, Dr. Lee and co. Yet, even Anubis was taking it slow, building his experimental subject up in small increments with lots of sleepy time between sessions.

Nirtti obviously was scientifically more advanced than Sam and co, and she really didn't have a clue about how to use the Ancient Gene Manipulation Device (tm).

Realistically, humans, even if they are veeery careful and take every percaution, should, even in the Stargate universe, take, at the very least, several decades to figure out how the machine works.

[MarshAngel]

I think it is significant that Anubis started futzing with this tech after he had ascended and was forcibly - but only partially - descended.

There's no doubt that Anubis was waaay further along in his scientific research and development than Sam, Dr. Lee and co. Yet, even Anubis was taking it slow, building his experimental subject up in small increments with lots of sleepy time between sessions.

Nirtti obviously was scientifically more advanced than Sam and co, and she really didn't have a clue about how to use the Ancient Gene Manipulation Device (tm).

Realistically, humans, even if they are veeery careful and take every percaution, should, even in the Stargate universe, take, at the very least, several decades to figure out how the machine works.

You know, I'm not entirely convinced that Niirti is significantly more advanced than Tauri medical science. She may have figured out how to use the machine because of tecnical knowledge but perhaps a lack of complete understanding about medical science is where the problem came in. The Goa'uld have had little motivation for medical research. They easily heal the bodies they inhabit and humans have no value apart from that of slaves and the occasional guinea pig.

On the other hand, humans are constantly fighting disease and developing new medical technologies and always researching. So while Niirti may be ahead somewhat particularly technologically, she may not be so much ahead that we couldn't do better than she has if we had the machine.

[LiquidBlue]

SGA Second Half

Spoiler:

The Episode "Michael" is suppose to feature a Wraith that has had all of his non-human elements removed. This episode likely represents that Retrovirus introduced in "Instinct" has been nearly perfected, or in keeping with this thread perhaps Beckett used a DNA machine on Atlnatis to do the job. Given access to the Human, Wraith, and bug genomes, it would almost seem that this would be simpler and more effective than trying to create a virus to do the same thing.

Realistically, humans, even if they are veeery careful and take every percaution, should, even in the Stargate universe, take, at the very least, several decades to figure out how the machine works.

Do they need to know how the machine works? It is programmed with a series a treatments. Is it not reasonable that one could simply place a human within the machine and activate treatment #1. After the patient has received the full benefit of this treatment they would receive the next treatment and so on.

Even if they do not choose to make these changes to people, they now have the complete complment of genes that allow one to ascend or have other powers. Imagine how that knowledge would expand not only all of medical knowledge but also of physics! They could say, when this gene is expressed an individual possessess telekentic ability; how does that happen? What physical laws must be refined to allow that to happen? And so forth.

I realize that it is extremely unlikely that this will ever happen in the show. It is difficult enough to juggle the power inflation that has been nearly constant throught the course of the series. How difficult would it be if suddenly the SGC could offer their personal a number of powers including telekinesis, telepathy, superhealing, and even ascension!

Returning to Orlin. Why could he not use the machine to acquire the power of independent ascension?