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Did the Ancient knew about the Goa'uld before their ascension?

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    #31
    All of the following transcript excerpts came from
    http://www.moon-catchin.net/transcripts.htm


    Originally posted by Jarnin
    The Dakara device really was tossed in as a plot device. They needed a weapon that could destroy _only_ the replicators, but also one that could destroy all life in the galaxy if Anubis got his hands on it.

    The fact that the device could be "tuned" to destroy only certain types of life leads me to believe that the ancients only targeted life that was infected with the plague.
    From "Reckoning, Part II"
    DAKARA. TEMPLE CHAMBER. Jacob is looking at the console as Sam drags a large case in. She opens the case and takes out a naqahdah generator. Jacob rests his fingers on the console and a screen lights up on the wall behind him. He turns and looks at it and sees Ancient text scrolling across it.
    JACOB: Sam? (Sam looks up from the generator.) You might wanna hold off on that for a minute. If I’m reading this screen right, the weapon uses an energy wave to reduce all matter to its basic molecular elements. It’s not strong enough to disintegrate an entire planet, but it will wash away everything on a planet’s surface and everything in the surrounding space.
    CARTER: Sounds bad.
    JACOB: I know – but it also sounds like it does it much the same way your disrupter technology works on the Replicators – by separating the individual components.

    From "Threads"
    JIM: I know. That’s a tough one. (He slides his new newspaper across the counter to Daniel.) Speaking of which, have you seen the latest? (Daniel opens the new copy of The Ascended Times. The main headline reads: “Secret Plan Revealed. Anubis’ dastardly plot to regain Ancient Weapon of Destruction”.) He’s a crafty one. Really knows the ins and outs of the rules. I give him three to one odds to succeed. Wanna know the irony of it all? That device was originally used by the Ancients to create life in the Milky Way ... well, recreate it after the whole plague thing. No kidding. Now it all gets undone with the push of one button, leaving Anubis to recreate things all over to his own liking. There’s a waste of a million-odd years of evolution, huh? (He turns around to the customers in the diner and calls out to them.) I say someone should really do something to stop him! (The customers take no notice. Jim waves his hand dismissively at them and turns back to Daniel.) But no-one will. (He calls out to the kitchen.) Can I get a coffee?

    Originally posted by Jarnin
    I'm not so sure that the plague and these races were around at the same time. The Plague apparently happened millions of years ago (5-10? perhaps more), so the Asgard would have still been living in caves at that point.
    We don't know enough about the Nox and Furling to make a case either way.

    From "The Fifth Race"
    ASGARD 1: Understand this, there was once an alliance of four great races in the galaxy; the Asgard, the Nox...
    JACK: Met them.
    ASGARD 1: ...the Furlings...
    JACK: Don't know them.
    ASGARD 1: ...and the Ancients, the builders of the Stargates.
    JACK: Pretty heady group.
    ASGARD 1: The alliance was built over many millennia. Your race has much to prove before we may interact on that level.



    Originally posted by Jarnin
    The problem with the "recaporialized" idea is that if they were ascended ancients that retook mortal form, they'd be breaking the rules. That leads me to believe that some ancients who had never ascended had been the ones that were teaching humans back in Roman times.
    You're absolutely right the teaching the romans in any form would have been against the rules. However, maybe the ancient that did it was punished in some horrible way, or voted out of the glowing cloud club after he/she had already taught the humans.

    In "Ascension," Orin recaporialized and the others didn't care much- even after he used his knowledge to make emeralds and stargates. And he was an ascended that, like Oma, you'd expect to be watched closely. The other ascended beings only came into the picture when we tried to power up the gun.

    Originally posted by Jarnin
    You need to realize that these two different ancient civilizations existed millions of years apart. The ones that created the time loop device in Window of Opportunity would have built that device shortly after the plague struck, which would have been millions of years before Janus made his time machine.
    From "Window of Opportunity"
    DANIEL: Err.with the help of Teal'C and (he points at Jack and raises his eyebrows).Jack I've managed to complete the translation. (Jack and Teal'C look up.) As I originally suspected P4X 639 was once a colony of the Ancients. They thrived there for thousands of years until they were struck by some sort of unspecified cataclysm, perhaps a disease, but we'll never really know for sure. In any case facing certain destruction they built a time machine.
    JACK: They were going to go back and change their history, to avoid their fate.
    DANIEL: Right, but it didn't work. Instead of sending a team of scientists back to the key moment in their history the device caused a short term continuous loop. Just like the one we've been experiencing. They experienced the same day dozens perhaps hundreds of times trying to get the machine to work but in the end they gave up, they shut it down and.let the end come.

    [also]

    JACK: Looks familiar.
    DANIEL: It should, it's something that you spoke for a few days. It's a variation of the writings used by the ancients.

    [also]

    DANNY: We finished translating the text on the ruins. The antients who built this place never got it to work. They tried over & over again, just like you, but in the end, they gave up. Why do you think this place has been deserted so long? They couldn't save themselves.
    AG: You're wrong! There must be some other explination. I know I can make this work.
    DANNY: You can't. They proved it can't be done. You're just gonna go on like this forever, you'll be trapped.


    Originally posted by Jarnin
    Also, the ancients of Atlantis seemed to have reservations about messing with time; afterall, they ordered Janus' time machine and all related research to be destroyed.
    Agreed.

    Originally posted by Jarnin
    The ancients seeded Pegasus with life that would eventually become human, just like they seeded the Milky Way with life that would eventually become us.

    I think the events that happened in Sanctuary indicates that the ancients and humans did in fact live together, at least on some worlds.
    I also think "The Brotherhood" also showed they lived together.

    From "Rising I"
    ANCIENT HOLOGRAM: In time a thousand worlds bore the fruit of life in this form. Then one day our people stepped foot on a dark world where a terrible enemy slept. Never before had we encountered beings with powers that rivaled our own. In our over confidence, we weren't prepared and outnumbered. The enemy fed upon defenseless human worlds like a great Schrage until finally only Atlantis remained.



    So in this much-debated excerpt, she says the worlds were only populated with beings "in this form". She also names humans specifically. Wich, of course, clashes with the statement in "Before I sleep" where the ancient himself calls Weir a "second evolution of this form"



    Originally posted by Jarnin
    The Wraith have never been outside the Pegasus galaxy, so the ancients and humans they were feeding on were native to Pegasus.
    The point i was trying to make was that the wraith in "The Defiant One" had only been able to feed on species that existed prior to his ship crashing (and i suppose those glowy things). Which would suggest, as above, that humans and atlantians were seperate and lived at the same time.




    Originally posted by Jarnin
    Actually humans on Earth and humans in Pegasus would have evolved in parallel. Humans on Earth, in current form, have only been around for about 200,000 years, but the genus Homo has been around for about 2.5 million years. With the ancients arriving in Pegasus about 5 million years ago, it would seem that we evovled at about the same time as the humans in Pegasus.
    See above. I've given up trying to sync real (scientific) dates with ones given in the show.
    Last edited by tlfoust; 29 June 2005, 04:12 PM. Reason: added source info

    Comment


      #32
      Originally Posted by tlfoust
      So in this much-debated excerpt, she says the worlds were only populated with beings "in this form". She also names humans specifically. Wich, of course, clashes with the statement in "Before I sleep" where the ancient himself calls Weir a "second evolution of this form"
      When an Ancient says that we're the "second evolution of this form" they most likely mean that we're the second race to look like this, they we're the first
      The Doctor: [leafing through a teen magazine] That won't last. He's gay and she's an alien.

      Carter: You saying that it could be boobytraped?
      Teal'C: Booby?

      May the Force Be With You

      Comment


        #33
        I agree. Which means that if Weir was the first time the atlanteans had seen a species that looked like them, then that would imply that they did not coexist with humans... which contradicts The Defiant One and Brotherhood, as well as the hologram message in Rising.

        Comment


          #34
          Just so we're clear, being an Aussie I missed "Before I Sleep", 7 chose to put on an ep of "The Simple Life 3", and I should be watching "Brotherhood" now, but it ain't on, and fof once it's not 7's fault, the crickets on, yay!
          The Doctor: [leafing through a teen magazine] That won't last. He's gay and she's an alien.

          Carter: You saying that it could be boobytraped?
          Teal'C: Booby?

          May the Force Be With You

          Comment


            #35
            I believe someone said that the orii and the ancients got off to a bad start, but I believe that orii are in fact ancients, just ones who have ascended but decided to turn evil.

            I thought that the wraith evolved by that bug that was on Sheppard's neck on 38 minutes. One of the bugs might have bitten an ancient and evolved through that.

            Comment


              #36
              If the Ancients created the Wraith, then how did they get to be so advanced with diferent tech. and grow to so many numbers before they awoke them. If so then the writers have allot of explaining to do. Last I checked when you create something you don't stumble across it and wake up it up. I know about it andif it is that terrible you wouldn't wake it up.
              *Post in Peace, Yah or Nah*
              *Go to Sokar you Cylon fracker*
              *I can't spell vary good, but I can read mis- spelled words vary good*
              *And then the Ori said, "if your thread is dead then let their be a new one"*
              *It's Science Fiction. Not Science with Fiction.*
              *Sproiler Tags should only be used when you are going to be mentioning something that you can't already read on Gateworld*
              *When I talk out my butt it smells like sarcasm*

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by LORD MONK
                If the Ancients created the Wraith, then how did they get to be so advanced with diferent tech. and grow to so many numbers before they awoke them. If so then the writers have allot of explaining to do. Last I checked when you create something you don't stumble across it and wake up it up. I know about it andif it is that terrible you wouldn't wake it up.
                Well maby after the war between the Atlantians and Ori/Priors, the Atlantians tryed to distorey the Wraith but some survived in secret, and a fer thousand years later when the Atlantians had forgotten about them they wear woken up and begain to multiply
                The Doctor: [leafing through a teen magazine] That won't last. He's gay and she's an alien.

                Carter: You saying that it could be boobytraped?
                Teal'C: Booby?

                May the Force Be With You

                Comment


                  #38
                  well we dont know that the ancients created the wraith all we know is that the wraith have some characteristics similar to humans and language similiar to ancient.
                  now when you think about it if the wraith evolved from humans why do they speak ancient?
                  i think the ori and the ancients have the same origins
                  the ancients left their originial galaxy where the ori also lived and went to MW
                  at some point the ori went to pegasus
                  the wraith evolved from the ori and thats why their language is a bit different than ancient
                  the ancients thousands of years later arrived and awoke them.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Here is my take on the Ori.....

                    After reading several spoilers, aka Avalon, I believe it is safe to say that the Ancients aren't originally from the Milky Way. I used to think they were, but evidence is pointing to they weren't, or atleast had ties to many other galaxies and perhaps the Milky Way was their original galaxy. But anyways, were the Ori are now, the Ancients used to be. The Ori were the Ancients, they diverged into seperate groups and the Ori Ascended, but before the Ancients, the Ancients saw what that did to them, they became power hungry, and that's why the Ancients are so opposed to interferring in un-ascended matters.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Lord Dannos
                      Well, you've got to remember
                      Spoiler:
                      the weapon on Dakara destroyed ALL life in our galaxy, before the ancients recreated it. Therefore, its possible the Ancients created the Goa'uld, either by design or accident.
                      It's possible the Goa'uld simply evolved to be what they are after the Ancients were virtually wiped out, leaving their technology behind.
                      Spoiler:
                      If it had destroyed all life then the Nox and the Furlings would probably be dead but since they did not die then I think it is safe to assume it was limited to only the infected worlds in the galaxy.
                      True they could have been in space on ships while the ancients cleaned the galaxy but I think it is more likely that the ancients did what anubis did but used the gates themselves to clean only infected worlds.

                      We dont know all the ancients ascended at once for all we know some are still not ascended but are living on a planet in our galaxy in secret on a planet.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by tlfoust
                        if Weir was the first time the atlanteans had seen a species that looked like them, then that would imply that they did not coexist with humans... which contradicts The Defiant One and Brotherhood, as well as the hologram message in Rising.
                        I think Janus was amazed at Weir because it all worked without them needing to be around and watch it happen. They seeded the Milky Way and then left for Pegasus. But in Pegasus they stuck around and grew up around humans who had evolved on worlds they seeded.
                        Seeing Weir was like looking at a science experiment long forgotten come back and say "hi there!".

                        Another interesting bit to note is that the Lantians didn't declare that they were going to go to Earth until after Weir went back and time and told them she was from Earth. Then when they were evacuating Atlantis, Moros said "We're going to Earth, you're welcome to join us."

                        Kinda funny if you ask me.
                        Jarnin's Law of StarGate:

                        1. As a StarGate discussion grows longer, the probability of someone mentioning the Furlings approaches one.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          um the ancients seeded planets with life maybe they left them be for a while then one of the planets had humans and the bug things so thats how the wraith formed then after the wraith had formed the ancients started to look at the life they had brought then they stumbled on the wraith and possibly didnt even know that they are the reason the were created so thats how u stumble on something u helped create

                          Comment


                            #43
                            To think the Ancients created the Goa'uld is just nonscence.

                            Also Ra probably ruled Earth when they returned from Atlantis and the Ancients did nothing because the ones returning would have grown up spending their whole life at war with the Wraith and probably just wanted to live in peace!

                            Comment


                              #44
                              The Ancients must of seen them when they returned to the milky Way. This was after the Egyptians.

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