Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

[SF_and_Coffee]

I'm such a rube--I thought the Q stood for Queen, but I guess that would be the T!

The T is for transgender. If you're thinking Drag Queen, that's not so much a matter of being transgender as it is of a sort of specific type of transvestism engaged in primarily for entertainment purposes. (I have gay male friends who have been heavily involved in drag performance, and most of what I know about this comes directly from them.)

[Whytewytch]

The T is for transgender. If you're thinking Drag Queen, that's not so much a matter of being transgender as it is of a sort of specific type of transvestism engaged in primarily for entertainment purposes. (I have gay male friends who have been heavily involved in drag performance, and most of what I know about this comes directly from them.)

Told you I'm a rube! I had no clue. I now consider myself educated. Or at least less ignorant.

[Skydiver]

my understanding is, drag queens just like to dress up and act female, sometimes OTT if they perform that way. while transgender folks want to be the other gender, right down to cutting off or having the specific genitalia surgically created.

Drag queens 'keep the plumbing' so to speak, transgenders feel like they were born in the wrong gender body and want to change that.

[WraithRichard]

my understanding is, drag queens just like to dress up and act female, sometimes OTT if they perform that way. while transgender folks want to be the other gender, right down to cutting off or having the specific genitalia surgically created.

Drag queens 'keep the plumbing' so to speak, transgenders feel like they were born in the wrong gender body and want to change that.

This is correct.

[SF_and_Coffee]

*nods*

And one of the most convoluted (to an outside observer) transgender situations I've encountered is that of an acquaintance who was born male and lived as a male into middle age, marrying a woman, etc... while feeling that he really should have been born a woman himself.

He got divorced from his wife, underwent gender reassignment surgery, and is now a happy woman in a loving lesbian relationship with a woman who has brought much happiness to her (formerly his) life. So it isn't even about sexual preference.

[Skydiver]

Situations like that show that bisexuality, etc, can also be cases of loving the PERSON, and not letting gender be a definition of whether or not that person is eligible.
It's kinda Tok'ra if you think about it. You love the person and then just let the gender thing figure itself out.

Now that can bring up an issue that can drag this back on topic

writing Tok'ra....I've varied over the years. I've put // before and after to signal that it was Selmac instead of Jacob. Other times Selmac was in single quotes not regular double ones. Other times, I'd italicize Selmac's thoughts/words and not Jacob's.

I've not written all that much with the symbiotes, but enough that it's kinda hard to signify when it's the symbiote talking instead of the host without 'selmac said, jacob said' etc.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Actually, I've come up with my own convention for symbiote/host dialogue that addresses it nicely, both for internal and external dialogue situations. Here's what I do:

For internal dialogue between host and symbiote, I place the host's internal speech in italics, while leaving the symbiote's internal speech in plain type but enclosing it in {brackets}. The fact that the brackets even look a little like the "winged" or "finned" portion of a symbiote's upper body makes a nice visual reminder of exactly who's talking, I think.

For external dialogue where the symbiote is speaking to someone else, via the host's vocal apparatus, I use the same brackets, but additionally enclose the symbiote's audible speech in quotation marks as well, {"like this"}. Anything that looks like that is said in the flanged, harmonic symbiote voice with which we are all familiar.

Here's an example of the internal type of conversation, from ATWLB. Sabar is a Tok'ra symbiote who is actually part of a Tok'ra faction independent from the mainstream Tok'ra culture shown in the series (they're unaware of any alliance with Earth) and Cadogan is his human host. 'Neirin' is a local name adopted by Frank Cromwell, who found himself stranded on a world where this Tok'ra faction has allied itself with human rebels against the minor Goa'uld System Lord who rules this world and several others. The USAF skimped on some briefing material, so Frank knew very little about the Tok'ra when he fell through the Stargate. He's been on this planet for several months by the time of this scene. Now that you know who's who, let's go:

Cadogan moved one of his knights and sat back, listening to the pop and crackle of the fire in the hearth. Lamplight painted the study with a golden glow, and the fragrance of mulled ale rose from the mug at his elbow, all of them helping to dispel the chill that he hoped would prove to be winter's last gasp. He'd had about enough of snowy evenings for a while.

Across the table, the man known as Neirin surveyed the chessboard, looking for the best answering move. Having only begun to learn chess a mere two weeks ago, Cadogan knew himself to be still very much a novice, but every once in a while he managed a move that caused his teacher to pause and think for a few moments before countering it. Of course, having two minds available to address the game gave Cadogan something of an unfair advantage, and after the first couple of games, he'd informed his symbiote Sabar that they would have to alternate, each playing a game solo, while the other merely observed rather than actively offering advice. After all, Neirin — Frank, Cadogan remembered, though no one called the quiet, dark-eyed man by that name anymore — had only himself to rely on.

{Himself and many years of experience in playing this particular game, you mean,} Cadogan's symbiote reminded him drolly.

Hush. Maybe I just want to see how well I can learn this on my own, quipped his host in response. I would think you would, too, even though I know you've played many others like it.

On those occasions when Sabar took control and played, it was still Cadogan who did the talking, or at the very least, on the few occasions where Sabar uttered a comment of his own he was careful to do it in Cadogan's voice, as the pair sensed that Neirin was still somewhat uncomfortable with the concept of Tok'ra. As far as Cadogan could tell, Neirin didn't suspect he was interacting with anyone other than the purely human half of the blended pair.

{I would think that he's known us long enough by now to perhaps grow accustomed to me,} Sabar opined silently. {It's been more than half a year.}

Cadogan chuckled inwardly. It took longer than that for me, if you'll recall. When I first met you and Berwyn, I wasn't sure what to think about the idea of two beings in a single body. I spent nearly a year and a half serving under the pair of you before I was really used to the concept.

{He seems so… adaptable, otherwise,} Sabar observed. {And he does all right with most of the other Tok'ra he's met.}

He is adaptable, but I can tell when someone is less than comfortable with us, and Neirin's still at that point. He doesn't interact all that much with the other Tok'ra, and in most cases, he only knows the symbiote or the host, rather than both. You and I are the only pair he really spends appreciable time with, let alone having cultivated any sort of connection with either partner. He's had a lot else to cope with, don't forget. It can't have been easy, being thrust into in a strange place by whatever incident it was that sent him here, and he still won't talk about it. We're just fortunate he's comfortable enough with me to have taken charge of a team when I asked him to, since he's a good officer. It would have been a shame for his skills to go to waste when we need people like him.

{At least he's gotten to know you. If he's going to continue working closely with us, at some point he really should get to know me as well.}

He will, if you give him time. Though it does occur to me that while we're playing this game with him, we're more firmly on his ground, which is perhaps the best place for it to happen. Cadogan paused, thinking. I feel a bit duplicitous over this, but I doubt Neirin realizes that part of the time he's been speaking with you during these lessons, rather than with me directly. I wonder what he'd think if I told him you wanted to learn the game yourself?

{Try it,} suggested Sabar, just as Neirin completed his answering move.

Cadogan returned his full attention to the board. I will, once I finish this game. Right now, though, let me concentrate. And no, I don't want help.

And here's a brief example of the external type of dialogue, from just a little farther on in the same scene, just after Cadogan has done as his symbiote requested:

"Cadogan, any issues I have with Sabar or with the Tok'ra in general are my own." Neirin shook his head. "I don't want anyone to put themselves out on my account. The idea of two minds in one body is beyond strange to me, but so are a lot of other things I've come to accept as reality lately. I managed that; I can manage this. I can't promise it won't take time, but it'll never happen if I never begin." He placed the black king on the chessboard. "You and I are friends, Cadogan. I can at least make a start at getting to know Sabar too. Just… slowly, all right?"

Cadogan nodded. "Fair enough, I'd say."

"Then let Sabar tell me that for himself."

Cadogan held his friend's gaze for a moment, before bowing his head, eyes closed, and giving control to the symbiote. Sabar opened his eyes, looking up and then inclining his head to Neirin. {"I'm sorry that our first meeting was so disturbing for you,"} he said quietly, keeping the harmonics in his voice to a minimum, sensing that perhaps it might help the other man's comfort level. {"I was presented with a crisis, but I honestly had no idea that you were completely unfamiliar with us. Had I been aware of that, I might have handled things with Gerlad differently in your presence."}

Neirin gave him the hint of a smile. "Sabar, everything was a little off for me that day. Some things still are, but I'm working on it."

Sabar nodded. {"I understand. In any case, I'm glad we can take the opportunity to get to know each other directly. I feel as though I know you relatively well due to the time you've spent in Cadogan's company already, since obviously I've been there as well. But that isn't quite the same; and of course, you don't know me at all, really, beyond what little direct interaction we've had in the field."} Even there, Cadogan had generally done the talking when they spoke directly to Neirin. Only when Sabar needed to address the larger group had he done so in his own voice, of late.

It was Neirin's turn to nod. "Time to change that." He gestured at the chessboard. "This seems as good a place to start as anywhere. Choose a color?"

[SF_and_Coffee]

Going, going, and gone? No, the Oxford Comma is Safe... For Now

I think the writer of this article and I may have been separated at birth!

[Goose]

Oxford commas is the best thing since sliced bread, the wheel, and meatballs!

[Whytewytch]

I like "irregardless".

[SF_and_Coffee]

I like "irregardless".

As a collection of sounds, it's pretty cool, but it isn't a word. It doesn't even make logical sense, when you break it down into its constituent parts.

Regard: attention, consideration, motive, respect

the suffix -less: negation, not having, devoid of

the prefix ir-: negation, opposite of

So "irregardless" would mean "the opposite of being devoid of regard". That's a double negative, and therefore superfluous. The opposite of being devoid of something is having that thing, so in reality, "irregardless" means "regarding". Why not just say/write "regarding", then?

Of course, people don't use it to mean "regarding" or "in regard to"; they use it to mean the opposite of those things. That's like using "full" to mean "empty" or "large" to mean "small". The marketing people at Starbucks or those in charge of George Orwell's dystopian society in 1984 would love it. Me, not so much.

[Whytewytch]

As a collection of sounds, it's pretty cool, but it isn't a word. It doesn't even make logical sense, when you break it down into its constituent parts.

Regard: attention, consideration, motive, respect

the suffix -less: negation, not having, devoid of

the prefix ir-: negation, opposite of

So "irregardless" would mean "the opposite of being devoid of regard". That's a double negative, and therefore superfluous. The opposite of being devoid of something is having that thing, so in reality, "irregardless" means "regarding". Why not just say/write "regarding", then?

Of course, people don't use it to mean "regarding" or "in regard to"; they use it to mean the opposite of those things. That's like using "full" to mean "empty" or "large" to mean "small". The marketing people at Starbucks or those in charge of George Orwell's dystopian society in 1984 would love it. Me, not so much.

I don't care--I still like it. I know it makes no sense, like the ratty old Teddy bear that you still love but there it is.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Just be aware that to some people, hearing or reading it produces much the same reaction as does the sound of nails on a chalkboard. I always prefer it when people use words that actually mean what they're trying to say.

[Goose]

Just be aware that to some people, hearing or reading it produces much the same reaction as does the sound of nails on a chalkboard. I always prefer it when people use words that actually mean what they're trying to say.

Ain't that so!

[Whytewytch]

**darts in to run nails down the chalkboard, darts back out**