Stargate: Universal Sin - (Alternate Ending to Atlantis from Mid Season 4)

[Aragon101]

Ok read the chapter where John visits home, I think all of it, not sure. Little before that, you had Leyton with his little outburst. He seemed like a pretty calm and rational guy from the show. He was willing to do a lot to preserve his treaty, so it would have made sense for him to try to preserve the treaty and try to find out what happened instead of the outburst. But guessing you have this scene for a reason later on.

Ok my biggest qualm with the Earth visit is this, Sam tagging along. I don't see why Sam went with John, that is totally off the mark. She is the leader. All the travellers are there and Genii ties have been broken off, and Wraith and Replicators are out there. and she goes off to Washington? iI mean the IOA did that with Elizabeth but at least she was in close proximity to the gate and Atlantis. They came to her because they don't have as pressing matters that could compare. It doesnt make sense when the IOA have no pressing concerns that could remotely compare to Sam's and they make her come to them. But guessing you did it for the growing Sam/John friendship, which makes me cringe a bit. You changed Sam quite a bit to me with a bunch of little stuff, but will be patient and see where it is heading. I won't go into the whole Sam/Jack thing because I think you may have addressed such concerns already.

Some little things. Sam wouldn't say XO and I'm guessing it was just a BSG reference, lol think you said it 5 times in like a span of 5 paragraphs. Sam wouldn't tear into a guy, like she did with Coolidge. She's usually calmer and more mild mannered. Most of her emotional outbursts are of a softer kind of emotions, like crying and sympathizing. But yeah, I don't see her having an outburst of that emotional spectrum. Sorry to be overly critical and nitpick. Will continue reading.

Was great to see you explore a wide range of writing rather than just fights and other things.

Ladon Radim, yes he did seem a pretty calm guy on the show, but consider that he just lost many of his people and it's Atlantis's fault. the "treaty" they had was supposed to be mutually beneficial, but in Harmony one of his commanders was willing to kill John and Rodney to win favor on that planet. Same in Inquisition with the Genii cheating with the Jury. The difference is that with the Asurans still a major threat, the Genii are alot more desperate. They've spent their whole lives preparing to fight the wraith and WHAM, all of a sudden an even tougher enemy shows up and it's Atlantis's fault.

It's a build up, even John has his breaking point and he's getting there. Same thing with Sam, these characters have been through alot and she sympathizes with him. At the beginning, she's already dealing iwth the refugees starting to get violent and losing many of her people who just want to go home, then she has to tell John his father's dead, AND she gets recalled by the IOA for a mission statement briefing. She wasn't tagging along WITH John to the wake, they just both happened to be needed on Earth at the same time. It wasn't until she actually saw John getting dressed to go to his father's wake alone that she decided to go since she knew what it was like to lose a father. I'll admit the "XO" was likely my bsg sybconscious She's basically doing the same to John as what Jack did with her when she lost her father.

By this point, the events of the story have already changed the characters. Sam's in soldier mode and ready to attack, while John is slowly coming apart and much less patient with people. When Dave accuses him of just caring about money, John snaps. When Coolidge talks demeaningly to Sam, she latches onto it to get some revenge for the IOA's policies and get what she wants. She took his careless comment and used it to further her own agenda.

This isn't the average SG story full of hope and lighthearted tone. Most of the things yo'uve mentioned have actually happened in SG mythology in one way or another, these are mostly extrapolations while at the same time, a seperate story. This is a story of overcoming unbelievable odds and a struggle for survival. SG1 and SGA never really got into how these events would affect people, and Season 4 started to on occasion (teyla with Heightmeyer for instance)

As far as Sam/Jack, while i fully support their friendship, i'm not a shipper. If you are adamant about Sam/Jack, you may want to stop reading.

[jmoz]

No, I don't mind Sam/John thing. But it seems so sudden. There was little hinting towards crossing that line. I mean even when Sam dated Pete, she had quite a few dates before going through the "bases." Sam seems like one of John's, sorry to be cruel to Sam's character, but one of those flippies he's had romantic involvement with on the show. Some of it is real though, others not so much.

Well the point I was making, the IOA may be idiots but they aren't that inconsiderate as to pull Sam away from contact from the SGC. She serves as the leadership role during a crucial stage at this point, I would think so. Unless, she has convenient transport via the orbiting ships? That probably would make sense.

Nah, no way. Have to keep reading. You don't just have that one plot. You have many other interesting ones, and I want to know what happens. Can't wait to see if Todd shows up again and what happens to Rodney. Poor guy.

[jmoz]

Forget everything I said. Kept reading and you wrote it nicely and it flowed for the most part. Ronon was pretty great, although liked the version with Teal'c. Noticing quite a few similarities.. Very fitting some parts. Almost done.

[Aragon101]

No, I don't mind Sam/John thing. But it seems so sudden. There was little hinting towards crossing that line. I mean even when Sam dated Pete, she had quite a few dates before going through the "bases." Sam seems like one of John's, sorry to be cruel to Sam's character, but one of those flippies he's had romantic involvement with on the show. Some of it is real though, others not so much.

Since you're still reading, you'll see what happens

Well the point I was making, the IOA may be idiots but they aren't that inconsiderate as to pull Sam away from contact from the SGC. She serves as the leadership role during a crucial stage at this point, I would think so. Unless, she has convenient transport via the orbiting ships? That probably would make sense.

She does use Odyssey's transporter system to move around. In her conversation with Jack, she mentions it. Also the IOA isn't concerned with Atlantis as a colony, they just want the technology. Keep reading and you'll see their policy well at hand

Nah, no way. Have to keep reading. You don't just have that one plot. You have many other interesting ones, and I want to know what happens. Can't wait to see if Todd shows up again and what happens to Rodney. Poor guy.

You'll get answers

Forget everything I said. Kept reading and you wrote it nicely and it flowed for the most part. Ronon was pretty great, although liked the version with Teal'c. Noticing quite a few similarities.. Very fitting some parts. Almost done.

Median, yes With Daniel, it's not as clear cut as the one with Teal'c and has the Wraith involved a little more heavily and intelligently using it as a distraction and lateral atack on Atlantis.

[jmoz]

Ok, I finished it. Everything written after this is my opinion, I hope you understand that.

The Good

It was pretty dark, enjoyed the initial style (dark, gritty, hopeful, and smoothly flowing) and you went back to that style towards the end. Rodney's death was better handled than the way Weir's was, but to me Rodney was a large part of the show. Travelers alliance was pretty good. Good bits of humor and some adult type of writing.

Imagine a foster kid in a foster family with his kid brother in the family. He really cares about the kid but the foster parents are abusive. Should he run away?

The Bad (gonna put it in spoilers if you really want to read)

Spoiler:

The foster thing is in reference to your major/end plot, leaving the galaxy. They want to leave because the IOA doesn't want them to help the Pegasus galaxy. So they choose to mutiny and leave Pegasus? Makes no sense to me at all. They want to rebel to help the Pegasus galaxy but they rebel by running away to another galaxy? This whole main plot reminded me of a teenage rebellion where they run away.

What about all the people in the Pegasus galaxy? They will be left for the replicators and Wraith? Atlantis couldn't have taken all the refugees. Numbers and semantic wise, it doesn't make sense.

They went to Atlantis to help benefit humanity. So they take that away by moving to another galaxy. The knowledge of the ancients in the database, gone.

Ronon swore to not leave Pegasus until all of Pegasus was free of all Wraith (from The Return). So he decides to go along with leaving Pegasus.

Sam made me cringe most of the times, she is overly emotional to me. To me, Sam was always the scientist, once a scientist, always a scientist. I didn't like the role she played in the show and here. Her ingenuity and genius (her portrayed role and character in 10 seasons of SG-1) took a back seat to her emotions and leadership role. With Rodney gone, I would have thought you might put her in Rodney's place. She is definitely not a leader type. She went away from her duties to go provide support for Sheppard, like in the end where she is with him in the control chair room. She should have been on the control room. Weir cared about Sheppard, but she remained vigilant to her duty as a leader.

Already told you about the Rodney bit, he made the show for me.

Again all of this my opinion.

Thanks for writing this, your patience, and your muse, rather enjoyable.

[Aragon101]

Ok, I finished it. Everything written after this is my opinion, I hope you understand that.

Of course

The Good

It was pretty dark, enjoyed the initial style (dark, gritty, hopeful, and smoothly flowing) and you went back to that style towards the end. Rodney's death was better handled than the way Weir's was, but to me Rodney was a large part of the show. Travelers alliance was pretty good. Good bits of humor and some adult type of writing.

Imagine a foster kid in a foster family with his kid brother in the family. He really cares about the kid but the foster parents are abusive. Should he run away?

Won't comment to omuch on this, i'll focus on your constructive criticisms. But i thank you very much for your opinion and comments

[QUOTE=jmoz;11391848]The Bad (gonna put it in spoilers if you really want to read)

Spoiler:

The foster thing is in reference to your major/end plot, leaving the galaxy. They want to leave because the IOA doesn't want them to help the Pegasus galaxy. So they choose to mutiny and leave Pegasus? Makes no sense to me at all. They want to rebel to help the Pegasus galaxy but they rebel by running away to another galaxy? This whole main plot reminded me of a teenage rebellion where they run away.

Pegasus is dead. The Replicators destroyed everything and the Wraith culled all known human populations. Basically they went planet to planet. It says this in the fic, even Sam mentions that alreayd 60% of the gate network was bombed out. Machines don't need to sleep or rest, the ASurans just methodically wiped out all food the Wraith had.

The IOA insisted that Atlantis couldn't come back to the MW with the refugees not Atlantis itself. They feared that the Wriath might have worshippers there who could lead the Wraith to the MW. That was the big issue for them. They WANTED Atlantis to come back or just hide, but they DIDN"T want to take in the refugees. It's a warranted fear especially after Midway Disaster.

The fact that so few people decided to actually mutiny (About 10 in total) or 200 people shows how hard a decision it was. The people who stayed all had their reasons. Only Sam was forced into it because as she says, her career in the Military and Stargate Program would be over if she lost Atlantis to a mutiny. Ronon wants to anihillate the Wraith yes, but he's not so stupid as to die in a useless gesture.

What about all the people in the Pegasus galaxy? They will be left for the replicators and Wraith? Atlantis couldn't have taken all the refugees. Numbers and semantic wise, it doesn't make sense.

You must have missed it. There are none. the Asurans wiped them all out, and many were culled by Todd's faction in a last desperate bid for survival. There might be pockets left, but for the most part, Pegasus is a dead galaxy to humans.

They went to Atlantis to help benefit humanity. So they take that away by moving to another galaxy. The knowledge of the ancients in the database, gone.

Yep, a very hard decision because there was no other way to send 7000 people away from both MW and Pegasus. None of them wanted to abandon the MW and Earth, but they were left with no other option if they wanted to save the refugees too. They were running low on supplies, and without Midway, they couldn't get resupplied from MW easily .The Superhive was the last straw.

Ronon swore to not leave Pegasus until all of Pegasus was free of all Wraith (from The Return). So he decides to go along with leaving Pegasus.

and he's very torn up over the decision. He realizes that killing the Wraith isn't as important as saving the people that remain from Pegasus. That's what you missed, there aren't anymore people left as far as Atlantis knows.

[QUOTE=jmoz;11391848]Sam made me cringe most of the times, she is overly emotional to me. To me, Sam was always the scientist, once a scientist, always a scientist. I didn't like the role she played in the show and here. Her ingenuity and genius (her portrayed role and character in 10 seasons of SG-1) took a back seat to her emotions and leadership role. With Rodney gone, I would have thought you might put her in Rodney's place. She is definitely not a leader type. She went away from her duties to go provide support for Sheppard, like in the end where she is with him in the control chair room. She should have been on the control room. Weir cared about Sheppard, but she remained vigilant to her duty as a leader.[/qupte] Funny you mention that. I've just gotten into the heart and soul of that very argument in Dark Frontier which is the continuation. I wholeheartedly agree with you. Yet that's not what i got in Season 4 of Atlantis, so i needed to stick with that and change the character over time.

Already told you about the Rodney bit, he made the show for me.

Rodney does have his charm, but i felt that giving Rodney a fitting end was the true close of SGA. It can be something else, something different now.

Again all of this my opinion.

Of course! and i appreciate it

Thanks for writing this, your patience, and your muse, rather enjoyable.

I enjoyed writing it and am glad you enjoyed it! (at least parts of it)

The decision in hte end is really Sam's. Does she give in to her selfish side and go back home? Or does she take what she's learned over the last 10 years and do what she feels is right? They only have enough supplies for a few thousand, they COULD take in more people but they just can't maintain them. it's a horrible decision to have to make. Abandon everything you've known for your whole life to save seven thousand people you hardly know, or abandon seven thousand people to an uncertain fate to keep your own life back home. Given that only about 10 people actually stayed out of almost 300, i'd say that very few were willing to make that decision. And of them, Sam and Carson were forced into it by external forces.

[jmoz]

The genii, though? They had resources to support a rebellion. Wouldn't the Asurans have discovered their location when torturing Rodney? I know they have a large population. I just think there's a lot more to Pegasus, is it really that small? Enjoy the new galaxy aspect though, the opportunities opened up.

[Aragon101]

The genii, though? They had resources to support a rebellion. Wouldn't the Asurans have discovered their location when torturing Rodney? I know they have a large population. I just think there's a lot more to Pegasus, is it really that small? Enjoy the new galaxy aspect though, the opportunities opened up.

I could have gone into what happened to the Genii, the DV aliens, the Pasgard, but in the end it just didn't matter to the story i wanted to tell. I guess in the Apocrypha, the Genii were both wiped out by the Asurans and the Wraith, the DV aliens can't be fed on due to their cybernetic implants so the Wraith/Asurans likely left them alone, and the Pasgard were hiding anyway so they might stil lbe around, but with no humans, they're pretty much doomed anyway to genetic destruction. Chaya's people survived, but they don't bother with others anyway.

There might be pockets of survivors left, but it would take decades if not centuries to get back to any level of civilization.

again, thank you for reading, and i hope you enjoyed it Feel free to conitnue reading into Dark Frontier (just forgive Episode 2, which i'd honestly rewrite now as i cringe when i think about it)

[jmoz]

Would be very interesting to see a fic based on the survivors you speak of. That is some gritty and rough "guerrilla survival" stuff. lol your Dark Frontier sig was the reason I started reading in the first, but saw that it was a continuation. Maybe you could provide a summary of Universal Sin so that potential new readers don't have to read it fully to start reading Dark Frontier. And if they like this new one, maybe they'll go back and read Universal Sin.

[Aragon101]

Would be very interesting to see a fic based on the survivors you speak of. That is some gritty and rough "guerrilla survival" stuff. lol your Dark Frontier sig was the reason I started reading in the first, but saw that it was a continuation. Maybe you could provide a summary of Universal Sin so that potential new readers don't have to read it fully to start reading Dark Frontier. And if they like this new one, maybe they'll go back and read Universal Sin.

Ask and ye shall receive

http://sg-darkfrontier.wikia.com/wik..._Frontier_Wiki

In the Dark Frontier Thread, it says there's a summary version of UniSin Also have all of Season 1 Dark Frontier summarized as well.

[Aragon101]

Because of the absolute imbecility of the people at Fanfiction.net, i am going to be keeping a copy of Universal Sin on the Wiki as well, So both the summary and full versions will be availible there without having to go to Fanfiction.net.

The reason for this is simple, Stupid FF.net takes out scene breaks that aren't the horizontal ruler!

It'll take forever and a day to edit it on ff.net because there's no easy way to just edit what's there, you have to manually copy&paste or reupload the document with page breaks added manually

talk about built in frustration!