Return of the Ancients

[IWKYZerocool]

I wonder if in season 2 when the Wraith arrive at Atlantis we will see the Columnars arrive and kick their butt, I want to know what the rest of the weapons the Columnar has, and its auxiliary craft.
What do you lot think?

[NIMBUS]

ok, because this thread is so dead i think it's a good idea to post this here... *Frankenstein's dad's voice* to make it come alive!

...heavily edited version of a letter i wrote to aer'ki
...[are'ki,you could have] someone in atlantis invent 'kawoosh-sword' ... have a hilt that produces a constant 'unstable vortex' (kawoosh; it will be able to pass/cut through anything). it would also have to have a cylindrical, blade-shaped 'specific' force-field (why specific? it has to allow passing of the vortex through it, but deny passing of any other force-field, so that if a fight were to happen between two of these swords it would be a sword fight and not just a cutting-fest ...it could also be a regular force-field, but who knows what happens to them then in the vortex, so a 'special' force-field invented by the alterrans and their infinite wisdom is a better idea ) that's a bit smaller in volume than the kawoosh. the sword should also have another 'special' one-way force field that's a bit bigger than the 1st one to make it look more like a lightsaber, it has to allow passing from the outside, but deny the passing of the vortex through it...
it could theoretically have bad side-effects if any of the force fields aren't active (the vortex could act more as cutting-lasso than a beam of light or something if both fields are off... ).
it would also have to have an awesome power-source (if it couldn't generate the power from the produced vortex), AA battery sized potentia maybe.
heh it could even have cool side-effects, like disabling of nearby stargates if the vortex is produced by interaction with subspace or something...

so, what do you think?
... i haven't seen any lightsaber threads in this forum, so i'm gonna assume i'm not the last one to think of this, but don't laugh if i am
...this may seem like a douchey line - but feel free to take this idea and post it as yours in your fic or whatever

...as i already mentioned, i sent this as a suggestion to aer'ki for ROTA, but the basterd doesn't visit this site anymore... i'm pretty sure that now this will never come true in that fic, but what the hell...

[Serenity000]

that would make it too much like starwars, and besides why cut and stab up close when you can just shoot them at a distance (like this clip from Indiana Jones shows CLIP )

[Aragon101]

that would make it too much like starwars, and besides why cut and stab up close when you can just shoot them at a distance (like this clip from Indiana Jones shows CLIP )

you know the clip only happened because Harrison Ford was sick that day He was originally supposed to punch out the guy, but HF was like "Oh do i have to? Can't i just shoot him?" and thus the birth of that scene

As far as the gate lightsaber, they already have force powers, why not just go all the way? John already tried to get the replicators to make one for him. (even though he'd likely lop off his limbs doing that.) Personally i'm happy with Ronon and a Trinium Sword, but w/e.

IIRC, Aer'ki said Season 2 will be going even faster than season 1 timeline wise and each episode would actually have the year its in in front of it in the summary. Take from that what you will.

And the thread is dead because there's no updates. Kinda cause and effect if you ask me.

[NIMBUS]

i thought of the sword only because of that scene with sheppard and the replicator.
..."and besides why cut and stab up close when you can just shoot them at a distance" ... this is why it won't be overused

i lol'ed @ this "and each episode would actually have the year its in in front of it in the summary"... in the end it's only a way of telling the story, might seem a tad weird, but that's prob the truth, plus i won't have any problems with anything if this in the end turns out to be a COMPLETE star-wars rip-off...
sw < (sw+sg) > sg

[Aragon101]

i thought of the sword only because of that scene with sheppard and the replicator.
..."and besides why cut and stab up close when you can just shoot them at a distance" ... this is why it won't be overused

i lol'ed @ this "and each episode would actually have the year its in in front of it in the summary"... in the end it's only a way of telling the story, might seem a tad weird, but that's prob the truth, plus i won't have any problems with anything if this in the end turns out to be a COMPLETE star-wars rip-off...
sw < (sw+sg) > sg

Star Wars is not science fiction. it's a fantasy. It's a damn good fantasy, but seriously, was the word "Tibanna" even used in the movies? What was the reaction when the force was explained as "Midichlorians"? Star Wars was popular because the story about the characters was awesome (except Anakin/Padme, that was pretty "WTF!?" IMO. If even Calvin and Hobbes can get a nice hard shot at Anakin/Padme...)

SG on the other hand is science fiction with a few elements of fantasy, but explained in a "science fiction" way. What Fantasy is there? The Ascended? They're just on a different plane of existence, energy. tangible stuff. yadda yadda...

As far as each episode taking place years apart from each other... why? Seriously. It's like getting a summary of a great book instead of reading it, or even just getting the major plot points of a great movie.

Spoiler:

Here's Empire Strikes back in point form

Luke nearly dies, sees Obi-Wan
Leia and Han have UST.
Empire finds Hoth, begins assault.
Rebels evacuate Hoth, Leia has to escape with Han
Luke escapes but goes to Dagobah as per Obi-Wan's instructions.
Leia and Han have more UST, while escaping big space worms and Imperial Star Destroyers. Many things go boom.
Luke finds Yoda, begins his Jedi training.
Leia and Han go to Bespin and find Cloud City, are captured by Lando and Darth Vader.
Luke continues and struggles with training, ends up leaving to rescue Han and Leia.
Han gets frozen, has his famous "i know" line to Leia.
Luke arrives at Cloud City,
Lando has a change of heart, rescues Leia and the Droids.
Luke and Darth Vader Fight.
Luke and Darth Vader fight, Vader cheats with Force powers.
Luke and Darth Vader fight, Vader chops off Luke's hand.
"I am your father!" "NO!!!"
Luke jumps instead of joining Dark Side
Luke is rescued by Leia and Lando
Luke is given robotic hand. Lando goes to try and rescue Han.
Movie ends, big war continues on in next movie.

There, i just saved you from watching one of the only things from the 80s which still looks good today.

[NIMBUS]

sw is sci-fi, sci-fi on lsd is still sci-fi ...i have proof - dr.who counts as sci-fi and it's more trippy than sw

...stop exaggerating the whole summary thing... i can't see the future and can't know for sure, but as i see it, we will have the wraith attack on atlantis in the episode and years of boring bombardment from space in the summary, i don't see it as a major loss...

btw stop whining about the way aer'ki chose to deal with the thousands of years he has to capture in the fic... as i see it this is the only way it can be done without having fic "a documented time-traveler's story", or do you have any other useful suggestions?

btw 2.0, why do you hate stevenson's character so much? because aer'ki made him very jedi-like? ...it's what the original writers did, look at what merlin did in 'quest part2', he sacrificed himself after having a 5 min chat with daniel...

sorry if the reply seems dramatic or aggressive or whatever... i had to pee

ps - yes i know about personal opinions and stuff, but you have repeated that 9,(9)*10^(9) times

[Choo1701]

And the thread is dead because there's no updates. Kinda cause and effect if you ask me.

btw stop whining about the way aer'ki chose to deal with the thousands of years he has to capture in the fic... or do you have any other useful suggestions?

*takes hand bags off NIMBUS and Aragon* now now LADIES. (Oh, and take the lipstick and stilleto's off too. Its ... creepy.)

btw 2.0, why do you hate stevenson's character so much? because aer'ki made him very jedi-like? ...it's what the original writers did, look at what merlin did in 'quest part2', he sacrificed himself after having a 5 min chat with daniel...

ah, but Merlin's sacrifice was to make Daniel's sacrifice later on more awesome, that was part of a bigger plan that Merlin had come up with and....yeah i'm not ENTIRELY sure what the back half of Season 10 was about .... (please no sarcastic comments. They've been done)

So what's wrong with Stevenson's? Well after reading the first...four chapters of RotA i can tell you whats wrong:

He's perfect.

Everyone followed HIS lead in the stories i read. Sheppard followed him to the "uber gate network join up". Stevenson was the one who worked out how to change gate colours (i'm remebering this all right, right?). Bra'tac decided to follow Stevenson because he "Stevenson was the man". The ascended ancients deceided to let Stevenson do his thing "because he was da man". The Atlantis people made replicators because Stevenson came up with the idea, and of course, "he was da man"

and THAT was when i stopped reading...seriously not interested in a story about one guy with crazy party tricks who people follow his every word. (Sounds a bit like McKay actually. But McKay usually made MISTAKES along the way that he had to rectify. And still got Kaylee from Firefly in the end )

I take it in the rest of RotA no one who SUPPORTS Stevenson had turned around on any of his descisions and gone "maybe we shouldn't do this..." or "Stevenson i think your wrong..." and actually WON the arguement?

Like i said, i havn't read the rest of RotA, but i take it if Stevenson lead a charge against the Russians, the characters of Stargate would follow him willingly?

Isn't that a problem?

[NIMBUS]

stevenson may be perfect, but it isn't completely aer'ki's fault, he prob changed some details and maybe even improved on that i don't know, but stevenson wouldn't be that much different if aer'ki had run with what the series had set up... ayana (or whatever the name was), the babe from 'the frozen' was perfect as well...

btw, russians was a bad example, i would follow anyone charging against them... *thumbs up*

ps - all the things you mentioned that stevenson did, those weren't achievements, he just used the info he had, it was like turning on a computer and starting to browse the web for him.

[Choo1701]

ps - all the things you mentioned that stevenson did, those weren't achievements, he just used the info he had, it was like turning on a computer and starting to browse the web for him.

okay thats slightly true, but it just didn't sit right with me as a reader.

I was expecting someone to go "but" or "how about we...". I was looking for some character interaction. Some whispers behind closed doors. Ronon and Teyla wondering if John has gone out of his mind trusting "da man". They've tried to trust other people in Pegasus and been hurt (the Ancients in "The Return" is one prime example) and now they're willigly going to follow this guy?

But what i read was one pillock running around two galaxies uniting everyone and discovering new, amazing technology because he was "da man". In my opinion, half the fun of the journey is "getting there", especially when theres some nice character interaction (Han, Luke and Kenobi talking in the Falcon before they find they get to Alderran would be a good SW example).

[NIMBUS]

yea i can't comment on that, i don't really see that stuff... imo as long as there is enough story (and it's not totally ridiculous), drama and 'emotions' can be ignored, that's why i like vampire serials and it specially rota... it's all about what's happening not [insert emotional response]...

[Aragon101]

yea i can't comment on that, i don't really see that stuff... imo as long as there is enough story (and it's not totally ridiculous), drama and 'emotions' can be ignored, that's why i like vampire serials and it specially rota... it's all about what's happening not [insert emotional response]...

Well let's look at the figures.

2001 A Space Odyssey - Cost about 10 million, made about a hundred million

Avatar - Cost about 2 hundred million, has made 2 billion + so far, and hte DVD isn't even out, and they're going to re release an extended version later this year.

Would you call Avatar Sci-fi, or a space opera? So what's more popular? Look at recent "Sci-fi" like Sunshine, and compare it to something dramatic like oh i dunno, Iron Man. (Yeah remember? Tony Stark finding out his weapons were being used against civlians? What'd he do? Seems like a pretty human response)

What i'm saying, is that to tell a story that takes so many years in such a format, means we miss out on everything that goes on between that we've grown to love about SG. My star wars example WAS basically all the major points of the movie, but what did it lack? It lacked the characters and their journey as Choo said. I don't give two ****s whether it takes 10 years to write, that's the curse of having a great idea and doing it justice. THAT'S why i keep harping on this. By just getting the major plot points, you get no real indication of why the characters do what they do, or even where or what the hell they're doing in all that time. Are they just training all that time? it's been what? 4-6 years in teh story sto far?

I don't care what YOU feel Nimbus. If you don't like drama, that's your business, i'm not trying to change YOUR mind.. I'm just stating that by not adding it, Aer'ki is missing out on a large readership and the kind of attachment that gets people to see it over and over again. i've read the story once, and i don't feel like reading it again because there was nothing to bring me back. I got hte main points, and that's it. There wasn't any awesome moments where i wanted to read it again because of some great character interaction. In fact, the only reason i might read parts again is because i needed to clarify something, not because i actually WANTED to.

Why am i repeating this? Simple, ROTA may not exactly be my cup of tea, but i know that it's a well thought out story at the very least and it deserves to be made properly. It's never going to be the fourth series for various reasons, so i think the best thing would be to make it as great as possible as a Novel, and perhaps in 20 years when people are STILL reading it, elements of it can be taken and used for the SG reboot. But that's not going to happen unless it's very well made. The years before story issue isn't what's irking me. it's that so little is being given each time.SO what if it takes a litle extra to get an indication of where the important characters are at and doing? 12k words per episode ain't a whole lot. why not boost each episode to 20 and use the extra 8k to give us that SG character interaction? It's too late now since the first season is out and lacks that feeling for the most part.

I detest Stevenson for pretty much what Choo said. He's not a SG character at all. ALL SG characters made mistakes, learned from thier actions (or not), and were more than just a 2 dimensional walking library with force powers and an uncontested leader position. I LIKED Stevenson at the start, but by episode 4-5 i was really starting to dislike him because evidently, being an 'Alterran' is the closest thing to a God and his ego shows at every moment. It's not a desirable or entertaining trait, i certainly don't want to emulate him and he's not inspiring.

Aer'ki has told me that this is a story about humanity, and how we're the Ancients as well.. And how the Ancients don't have the same Taboos as humans.

well... who're the audience? Humans right? So... shouldn't the characters i dunno... act human? Especially if they ARE human? I can excuse Stevenson because he's obviously just a mary sue, but why does EVERYONE else just naturally come to agree with him? Is it that tired old "I have hte aura of leadership so everyone follows me" like Daniel told Larrin? Does that mean he's mentally manipulating these people even if its only 'suggestions?" That's the only thing we've been foreshadowed, so i really hope Stevenson decides to go Darth on us.

I've said it before and i'll say it again, ROTA is technically a masterpiece with plot and technical details, but woefully lacking and uninspired in characters, humor, fun, and that quality SG had that made people want to watch it over and over again.

Why is WoO one of the most popular episodes? Is it because of the awesome science fiction story about repeating the same day over and over again? Or is it because we see Teal'c and O'Neill slowly unravel, only in the end to realize that Malakai is *gasp* Doing it to see his wife! OMGZOR! EVEL DRAMA

Drama and emotion are a part of life, and the numbers don't lie. I'm by FAR not saying turn it into SGU, but i'd like some humor beyond picking on McKay or making Stevenson look like god in comparison to other aliens. I'd like to see how Ronon is dealing with the fact that Stevenson is literally one of teh "Ancestors" and how he deals with finally taking the fight to the Wraith. i'd like to see how Teyla reacts to seeing Torren and Kanaan again, but given that Alterrans don't give 2 ****s about little things like that (and even pretty much say so) i don't expect it to be a good moment.

Or could it? Kanaan shows up with Torren, and Teyla brushes him off. Kanaan starts to question why this happened, and starts to ask questions.

But then Stevenson would just "upgrade" him and wham, out goes all the tension. Or if he's feeling particularly uppity, he'll be like 'I"M AN ALTERRAN! LEAVE ATLANTIS AND NEVER RETURN!" and throw them through teh gate WITH HIS MIND!

To summarize. Because htis is never going to be the fourth series, why not make it as great as possible? Aer'ki has told me that he's writing the "spine" of the story and that "Social aspects" aren't his kind of thing. Uhhh... yeah, and the SG writers aren't that great at romance either, but look at the character/relationship forum and tell me that it's not an important aspect to the fans.

[p23571113]

Ok i have been reading this fic in the background but reading this previous discussion I feel compelled to voice my opinion.

First I agree with you Arogorn101 that it is missing those charachter moments and it would be nice to see them in. However also as you have observed what sets this fic apart is the how well planned the plot and all those technical details, which has resulted in a fic that is going to spread over long period of time(story wise).

This to me means Aerki will not be able to finish this fic with the extra charachter moments in IN HIS LIFETIME (it will be hard enough without them) or perhaps without going to a mental hospital after ten years of trying.

This means Aerki has three choices. Carry on as he is, carry on as he is and add charachter moments but never finish this fic, or somehow and I am not sure how drasticall shorten the timeline the story takes over so he can add the charachter moments and finish the fic.

Now I would much rather have this fic finished as after all these mysterious plot elements have been introduced I would feel very cheated if I didn't find out how it concludes. I like it to watching lost all the way through and then never seeing the final epsiode which would be horrible.

However I also feel drastically shortening the timeline can only occur by taking out what seperates this fic from the others, which is this epic( and i use the term to describe the scale of more than quality) of the plot, losing what makes it special.

So after this argument, in my opinion Aerki should carry on just the way he is. I know it won't be the fourth generation of stargate if he does, but realisitically that was never going to happen, and I want to see this fic finishes.

[Aragon101]

Ok i have been reading this fic in the background but reading this previous discussion I feel compelled to voice my opinion.

First I agree with you Arogorn101 that it is missing those charachter moments and it would be nice to see them in. However also as you have observed what sets this fic apart is the how well planned the plot and all those technical details, which has resulted in a fic that is going to spread over long period of time(story wise).

This to me means Aerki will not be able to finish this fic with the extra charachter moments in IN HIS LIFETIME (it will be hard enough without them) or perhaps without going to a mental hospital after ten years of trying.

This means Aerki has three choices. Carry on as he is, carry on as he is and add charachter moments but never finish this fic, or somehow and I am not sure how drasticall shorten the timeline the story takes over so he can add the charachter moments and finish the fic.

Now I would much rather have this fic finished as after all these mysterious plot elements have been introduced I would feel very cheated if I didn't find out how it concludes. I like it to watching lost all the way through and then never seeing the final epsiode which would be horrible.

However I also feel drastically shortening the timeline can only occur by taking out what seperates this fic from the others, which is this epic( and i use the term to describe the scale of more than quality) of the plot, losing what makes it special.

So after this argument, in my opinion Aerki should carry on just the way he is. I know it won't be the fourth generation of stargate if he does, but realisitically that was never going to happen, and I want to see this fic finishes.

Finally, reasonable argument.

I agree that it is MASSIVE. And in many ways, it is one of the best fics out there.

But would it be mainstream popular? It's too deeply involved in established SG Lore to be, but elements of it could CERTAINLY be saved.

They've started hiring outside writers to write SGU, so that shows that TPTB are finally a little more willing to step outside their comfort zone. It won't be today, but eventually, SG will continue, SGU isn't the last Stargate. I acn almost guarantee it. So since Aer'ki is going to such a HUGE and monumental task as writing this fanfiction, i think it'd be better to get an extra 4k words (nothing major, takes a few days at most for slower writers) just to add that flavoring. I'm not saying it should be a dramatic piece worthy of the great bards of our time, but how about some interaction? John and Ronon walking down an Atlantis Hallway talking abotu Stevenson, or the war with teh Wraith, or maybe how much things have changed... It's not hard, and given that most of the story is dialogue anyway, even easier.

A single long scene per episode, or two shorter scenes per episode just showing where the main characters are at. Nothing more than 4k words which is alot for dialogue like that. Given that each episode is already 12k words+, i don't htink this is unreasonable.

Right now, yo'uve got to consider, who are the ones reading ROTA? I'll be frank and say i believe pretty much only the harder sci-fi geeks are reading, and the diehard SG fans. There's alot of them out there, but nowhere near as many as just the ones who want to read something fun.

It's investing your time and imagination into a fictional story, You want a good return on that investment. And if a story can't deliver on all cylinders, then people will naturally start to veer away from it. Look at SGU, it's so hard focused on Characters that it's been steadily losing viewers since day one. ROTA is suffering the same but from an opposite position. It's all story and no characters.

SGA had a winning ensemble cast, and i find it sad that ROTA doesn't do them justice. My favorite moment of the whole show is in "The Last Man" when they're getting ready to go rescue Teyla, and Rodney's all nervous and says "Just tell me one thing, did my older self have hair?" and JOhn gets this utterly befuddled look before sternly saying "No."

OMG, i was dying laughing. took 3 seconds out of the show and completely shows the dynamic between the two.

I'm not saying have episodes like "The Shrine" which are emotional tear jerkers, but show the character dynamics which set SG apart from your average Sci-fi show.

Summary: If ROTA were bumped up from 12k words an episode to 15k words an episode, with the extra 3-4k words being character, woulnd't htat be commendable and more entertaining?

[Raptor01]

Aer'ki, can we expect an update soon? Can't wait to see how the story evolves!