Nit and Pick

[Guest]

Unless --was it meimei? over in the other thread--wants to post hers, we can do one of mine when we're done nitting Skydiver

Mine's at GW, extra brownie points for me!

http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/arch...ondchance.html

It was written after Meridian, and I've changed somewhat since then, so I'll be curious to see what you think.

Dana Jeanne

You go for it first! You volunteered to be first anyway! I can wait... Have to decide which one to pick!

[Dana_Jeanne]

You go for it first! You volunteered to be first anyway! I can wait... Have to decide which one to pick!

LOL. Okay. I'm going to be gone over Thanksgiving, so have it while I'm stuffing myself with my sister's turkey!

DJ

[Skydiver]

Skydiver's That'll Be The Day

I liked this story.

ETA: Spoiler tags... If someone hasn't read the story, I give away too much of the plot!!!

Spoiler:

The plot itself was interesting. I liked the idea that they thought Jacob was dead. I was beginning to wonder if you had really killed him off until the wedding ring scene. Though the meaning of not finding it didn't seem obvious to Sam or Jack.

** It didn't, unless you consider that it was pretty icky in there by then. charred body parts and gold melts at a low temp.

The characters were mostly "in character" as far as my understanding of them goes. I did have trouble with Jack's cold blooded murder of an unconcious Jaffa. I realize that with Jack's covert ops background that he would have that capability in him but I wasn't really prepared to see it (or read it). It also fit in with the "them or us" theme of the story but like I said I wasn't prepared for it.

**
I was aiming for the shock value, and it is a side of jack that we rarely see. We get a glimpse in Red Sky.


I thought that Carter got a little too insubordinate too early. I could see it later on when they had been worn down by hunger, fatigue and dispair. The second day seemed a little too soon for her, though it could be attributed to grief for her father.

**
she may have, especially for s5/6 fic. I was attributing it to grief and lingering anger over daniel.


Okay, this is going to sound kind of stupid... I have a thing for how far into the mythology the writer goes into. I have a bad habit of "googling" names from an author's fic to see where they got there names from. Did you know that "Spegla" is a FTP software? LOL!


**
I don't. I just made it up.


I loved the reference to the Duke! LOL! I have always pegged Jack as a John Wayne fan! The Duke will always be the best in my heart!


**
oh me too. I grew up on john wayne and i can see jack doing it too

I liked the epilogue. Too often fics end too suddenly. "They were rescued. The end." I like to have a scene afterwards that finishes up the loose ends. That it included Teal'c's Ritual of Remembrance for Daniel was a nice touch.


**
thanks. It had to have a 'warm and fuzzy' part. I still see at the end of revelations that, while jack did make a gesture (the dinner), it was fairly obvious that sam's invite was more of a 'hey we're going, wanna come?'. I didn't get the impression that they sought her out. And, if heroes is anything to go by, Jack has gotten better at facing things and his emotions, i still remember that it took sam nearly getting killed in revelations for him to have a bit of an awakening.

Maybe it made him realize that he was repeating the same thing that cost him sara...not facing his grief/emotions

All in all I really liked the story!

Thank you.

Triple bonus points if anyone gets the tv show that i loosely based this on. Its' based on one episode of a cancelled Sci-fi show

[Skydiver]

Okee dokee

well, i get to preface mine by saying that, normally, this isn't a fic i'd read. I'm not a huge fan of Daniel fic, and toss in there the j/d potentially slashy aspect, it would make it even more unlikely for me.

I did like the jack POV, because that is something we didn't really get from the eps. And it was an alternate universe ending that we also didn't see. I sure liked the nox a LOT better than ascension. Thanks to what happens in Full Circle, the wonderful gift of ascension is now little more than a trite plot device.

While the jack pov was interesting, i do think that he's a little over the top of my interpretation of canon. I don't see him quite this grief stricken or physically striking out. He's been a soldier for too long to let one person's death effect him this way. However, i think that it's implied in the fic that jack and daniel become close by the end...to the point of a relationship or not, they are close and this closeness might effect how jack reacts to daniel's impending death.


The perception of daniel also doesn't quite fit in with mine...but it's fairly obvious that i see him differently than you do
And the perception of daniel and his importance fits in with the grief issue. I know from experience, when my grandmother died, all of a sudden any and all anger at her faded adn only the good was remembered...and she was usually remembered in an exaggerated level of fondness.

I think if sam ever dies on the show we'll see a spate of fic that accentuates her importance to the sgc and all involved along with grief stricken jack.

There are a few mistakes in there, like nave instead of naive but over all, it's a good story. Not quite to my taste, however one that a daniel liker would probably enjoy, especially a HC/Whump fan

[Guest]

Dana_Jeanne’s Second Chance

Okay. This would have been one that I probably would have passed over based on the summary because Meridian was such a sad ep. I can barely rewatch that one… But I always felt that Jack was too calm about it. So the concept of his internal reactions is a wonderful idea.

I am not a big fan of AU… Which is silly to say because it’s not like Jack and Sam are getting it on in this universe and that’s what happens in many of my fics… So, in a way, mine are all AU. But taking an actual episode and doing an AU is really what I mean. I thought the story was going to end in line with the episode and I think that I would have liked it better that way. Jack’s turmoil in Meridian would have been a good direction to go but this is all my opinion! Please don’t be upset with me!!

I like your writing style! The way you describe the emotions, the abbreviated sentences to show hesitation and emotion. In most places, it’s easy to read and understand what you are trying to convey. That’s a big plus. Some writers go over board on some of the descriptive detail and you lose sight of the story itself.

I don’t see Jack as that externally emotional. Maybe punching the wall would be a bit far but I like the internal turmoil. That’s the way I have always pictured the character. Keeps his emotions in control and hidden deep. Not to say he’s not as emotional as the next guy, but doesn’t let it out. Not healthy…

And to finish up… Well, it seemed almost borderline slash in places. Or was that your intention? I don’t read slash fics about SG1. I can’t in a million years picture that kind of relationship between the men in SG1, any of them. So that did distract me a little. My mind would get off of the story and try to analyze your intentions.

Anyway, a good story but like I said the possible hint of slash threw me a little.

[Dana_Jeanne]

H/C Whump fan? Little ole me?

Okee dokee well, i get to preface mine by saying that, normally, this isn't a fic i'd read. I'm not a huge fan of Daniel fic, and toss in there the j/d potentially slashy aspect, it would make it even more unlikely for me.

I've had others tell me that was a slash story and yet SG is the fandom I don't write slash in. It's not 'there' enough for me. I think men can love each other as brothers and I was trying for that.

I did like the jack POV, because that is something we didn't really get from the eps. And it was an alternate universe ending that we also didn't see. I sure liked the nox a LOT better than ascension. Thanks to what happens in Full Circle, the wonderful gift of ascension is now little more than a trite plot device..

I'm not even going to get into how unhappy I am that ascension's basically been turned into a silly plot devise. Not. No. Shut me up somebody!

I wanted Jack's POV in there because I wasn't happy with his bedside goodbye in the episode. I really felt there should be more there from someone who was watching his supposed best friend die.

While the jack pov was interesting, i do think that he's a little over the top of my interpretation of canon. I don't see him quite this grief stricken or physically striking out. He's been a soldier for too long to let one person's death effect him this way. However, i think that it's implied in the fic that jack and daniel become close by the end...to the point of a relationship or not, they are close and this closeness might effect how jack reacts to daniel's impending death. ..

He's toned down from the first draft and I agree, looking at it now, that parts were a little OTT. But, I think everyone has a breaking point, that place where they simply can't take it anymore and this was my "I've had it" spot for Jack. I'm working on a story that takes place during Evolution, and am having to work very hard not to get another OTT bit.

The perception of daniel also doesn't quite fit in with mine...but it's fairly obvious that i see him differently than you do .

Ya think? I'm going to have to read more of your stuff and see if I can work out what your Daniel is like.

And the perception of daniel and his importance fits in with the grief issue. I know from experience, when my grandmother died, all of a sudden any and all anger at her faded adn only the good was remembered...and she was usually remembered in an exaggerated level of fondness..

I know what you mean. Same thing happened with my dad. And I was very unhappy when I wrote this fic (my dad the same week Meridian aired) and it all came out in the story.

Not quite to my taste, however one that a daniel liker would probably enjoy, especially a HC/Whump fan

Thanks. It's not what I'd call a favorite but it had to be written at the time. Wouldn't shut up.

Now, I'm going to go hunt down some of your stuff to print out and take up to my sister's to read over Turkey Day.

Dana Jeanne

[Dana_Jeanne]

Dana_Jeanne’s Second Chance
I thought the story was going to end in line with the episode and I think that I would have liked it better that way. Jack’s turmoil in Meridian would have been a good direction to go but this is all my opinion! Please don’t be upset with me!! .

Of course not! The whole idea of this thread is exactly what you've just done!

Since I was 'fixing' Meridian to suit myself Daniel couldn't die. It probably would have been a better story, and if I wasn't so attached to Daniel (who is NOT real, reminds self...) then I probably would have had him ascend. No dead Daniels in my universe, though!

I like your writing style! The way you describe the emotions, the abbreviated sentences to show hesitation and emotion. In most places, it’s easy to read and understand what you are trying to convey. That’s a big plus. Some writers go over board on some of the descriptive detail and you lose sight of the story itself. .

Thank you. There are stories where you need a lot of detail, and I've written them in my other fandoms, but this was meant to be an internal story, and when people are watching someone they love die, they aren't seeing the big picture. Nor are they thinking in complete sentences. At least I don't in cases like this.

I don’t see Jack as that externally emotional. Maybe punching the wall would be a bit far but I like the internal turmoil. That’s the way I have always pictured the character. Keeps his emotions in control and hidden deep. Not to say he’s not as emotional as the next guy, but doesn’t let it out. Not healthy….

In retrospect, I don't see him as punching the wall emotional either. I think at the time *I* was the one who wanted to punch the wall, and felt that Jack better darn well do it, too. Again, though, I do think each person has a breaking point, and for me, or rather, Jack, this was his.

And to finish up… Well, it seemed almost borderline slash in places. Or was that your intention? I don’t read slash fics about SG1. I can’t in a million years picture that kind of relationship between the men in SG1, any of them. So that did distract me a little. My mind would get off of the story and try to analyze your intentions..

Is it because of the part where Jack admits he loves Daniel? Or the ending scene? It bugs me that men can love each other platonically, but won't admit it. It wasn't meant to be slashy, pre or otherwise even though it reads that way, apparently! I see the relationship between the two men as equals with both contributing evenly to thier friendship. Before Daniel cut his hair and grew up, I saw it more as a big/little brother relationship.

Thanks!!
Dana Jeanne

[Guest]

Of course not! The whole idea of this thread is exactly what you've just done!

Since I was 'fixing' Meridian to suit myself Daniel couldn't die. It probably would have been a better story, and if I wasn't so attached to Daniel (who is NOT real, reminds self...) then I probably would have had him ascend. No dead Daniels in my universe, though!


Thank you. There are stories where you need a lot of detail, and I've written them in my other fandoms, but this was meant to be an internal story, and when people are watching someone they love die, they aren't seeing the big picture. Nor are they thinking in complete sentences. At least I don't in cases like this.


In retrospect, I don't see him as punching the wall emotional either. I think at the time *I* was the one who wanted to punch the wall, and felt that Jack better darn well do it, too. Again, though, I do think each person has a breaking point, and for me, or rather, Jack, this was his.


Is it because of the part where Jack admits he loves Daniel? Or the ending scene? It bugs me that men can love each other platonically, but won't admit it. It wasn't meant to be slashy, pre or otherwise even though it reads that way, apparently! I see the relationship between the two men as equals with both contributing evenly to thier friendship. Before Daniel cut his hair and grew up, I saw it more as a big/little brother relationship.

Thanks!!
Dana Jeanne

I'm not really sure what exactly made me think slashy... I look at the relationship, especially in the early seasons as big bro/little bro, starting with the "spacemonkey" hug in The Serpent's Lair. Jack's frequent annoyance with Daniel just plays to the big bro role. Maybe I need to go back and read it again to try to give you something more specific.

And it's not the part about saying he loves him. My bros tell each other that all the time. We are a very close knit family. I have male friends that do it also. Maybe it's combined with the obvious external breakdown Jack's having. Put the two together and it seems like more than a brotherly love. But like you said, it was you using Jack for your own desire to punch a wall.

I wasn't part of an online fandom when I saw that ep. I had no idea they were going to kill Daniel off for real. And, although Daniel wasn't my fav character (that would be Jack!), I was shocked and cried like a baby! That ep is still hard to watch. (And I know it's not real!!) The acting by MS and the way the story played out is one of the best I've seen in Sg1.

I will go back and read it again. Maybe I can find a more specific way to describe it! But not tonight!! Ack!! It's 11:30 already!!

Now I have to decide which of mine to put up... Mine tend to be long... And most of them are naughty... (R or NC17) This could be a difficult thing to do!

[Skydiver]

I think slash and ship is often in the eye of the beholder. In my fic..umm, sorry forgot who was first? Rocket??? read my jack/sam scenes as shippy, but no one else did and that wasn't how i intended it. (yeah, ok cept for those fic where it's massively obvious.....you know like when bodily fluids are being exchanged and there are direct mentions/declaration of affection)

Just the same as Dana's ending scene. i read it as potentially slashy, as did MeiMei, yet Dana didn't mean it that way.

perception is a tricky thing.

Now knowing the personal turmoil you were going through, more of Jack's attitudes make sense now. he was a bit of an extension for you and your feeling and maybe writing it was a cathesis for you. I wrote a fic where cassie's dog died because our dog died that same week adn it was my way to deal with it

Meimei did bring up a good point about the abbreviated sentences. sometimes to write fic, grammar goes out the window, specifically sentence fragments and occasionoal character grammar.

In one of my early fic, my beta criticized me for having daniel curse and use 'yeah', saying that a well educated man wouldn't do that....however if you watch the show, he does just that. Her perception varied from mine

[Skydiver]

Ya think? I'm going to have to read more of your stuff and see if I can work out what your Daniel is like.


Dana Jeanne

I'm trying to think of one that i could tell you. I honestly don't write a lot of daniel. He's never been a character i could get a grasp on.

centre of attention focuses on daniel a bit (although it is a pretender crossover)

consequences and confirmations is a rather dark fic, which may not appeal to many. It explores a possible 'what if' had jacob healed daniel and, well it is dark and portrays daniel rather....darkly and certainly may not appeal

decisions made is daniel pov from past and present

ice dreams is a very, very silly fic

it's time is set early s3

one toetally embarrassing day...a silly challenge

perspective is a daneil fic, set post FIAD, and an early fic

retribution is another daniel pov, but it also might be a bit dark

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/arch...ondchance.html

He knew this feeling, recognised it. It had crushed him when his son died; the second the doctor had said, "I'm sorry, there's nothing we can do."

It was sucking him into the same suffocating oblivion now, choking him, tossing dying stars in front of his eyes, filling his ears with the rushing noise of an angry ocean.

Now another doctor, standing in front of him, tears in her eyes as she choked out the same words, the same helpless, hopeless statement: "I'm sorry..."

He didn't want to hear it. He tuned it out, trying not to listen, to make it all go away, to make it Not True.

"...radiation...lethal dose "

This is Not Happening.

"... sorry. Nothing..."

No.

"...organs will disintegrate... drugs to help with the pain..."

Someone had a hold on his arm, was guiding him into a chair. He moved mechanically, he couldn't see, couldn't hear, couldn't breathe.

"Colonel..."

No.

"Sir...?"

God, Charlie. Damn it to hell, Daniel.

"Jack."

This is a FANTASTIC opening scene! You wrote a terrific hook, with an economy of words that pack a powerful punch.

For me, the opening paragraph of the opening scene is key to my reading the rest of the story.

Much as I may dislike bad grammar/spelling or (canon-wise)unrecognizable characters, if the writer can grab my attention with that first paragraph then s/he will likely keep my attention for the entire story.

BTW, this is a point that the "pros" stress: Spend a lot of time on your first page, because page one isn't a set-up for page two; it's the setup for the last page. (In this I think you could have done more - made that last scene between Jack and Daniel fit better with the opening(like a book-end). I agree with Jack when he said, "I don't do mush," but that's pretty much what (I thought)he was doing.

I call fic like yours "snack fic" because while I don't see either Jack or Daniel quite the way you portrayed them here, I just love your delicious prose. I eat that stuff up!

[Skydiver]

Gracie has a good point. the almost 'flashback' kind of writing is easy to picture for teh author, but hard as heck to write. this kind of scattered stuff convays it well

because, when you're getting shocking info, that's how you process it, one word/image at a time

[Guest]

Okay, here goes... I am putting one out there for nitpicking!! This story, The Things We Demand From Love, is Jack/Sam ship, rated PG13, set in early season seven, pre-Grace, spoilers for anything prior to that. It is the first story in a three story arc but it can stand alone. The next two stories are rated NC17. It was the second SG1 story I wrote, the third fanfic (Back to Reality, a SG1 story was first and then She Walks in Beauty, a ST: Ent fic.) It is not posted on GW because of the higher rating of the sequels.

It is a fairly long fic. 208 KB, 23.5k words. I don't really have any short works. I will understand if someone doesn't have time to read the whole story but would appreciate any feedback on parts they have time for.

The Things We Demand From Love

[Dana_Jeanne]

Gracie, thank you :-) Snack fic is good <G>
Dana Jeanne

[Skydiver]

hey mei mei

yep, i read it

over all, i thought it was pretty good. there were a few technical glitches, such as daniel being the conscious instead of conscience but it was mostly ok in the spelling and grammar area. there were a few abrupt POV changes, a part would start in jack's pov, then switch to sam's, then back to the jaffa's, then to jack....etc.

I loved the conflict and the position you put jack and sam in. even if the shippy aspects were taken out, i think it would have been a great dilemma, would jack kill to be kind? would he show mercy to a friend?

and then how would he deal with it?

I love fic that pushes the boundaries and asks the hard questions.

the set up was good, i liked the jaffa, kaveh. It's way too easy to make the jaffa nameless/mindless villians but you didn't do that. One thing that was missing could have been to have gotten some insight into the goauld other than 'he's mean and likes to torture'. Maybe a glimpse into what drives him, or a torture scene from his perspective.

I did like how you didn't go into all the gory details. I love a good HC fic, but i also don't need to read a laundry list of injuries or 10 pages of unremitting pain. it gets old and i start to gloss over.

my only other real quibble was jack and sam's behaviors. now, i know this is the beginning of a trilogy, and a trilogy that takes a shippy turn, so these characters need to be taken out of the bounds of the show. they need to declare/express thier feelings. However, i had a bit of a hard time with how effusive they were. Such as jack's infirmary vigil, or sam's emotional freedom. It doesn't quite fit into the stoic people we usually see.

that's not to say it's wrong, it's just not how i see them. then again, ask my friends, when i write a j/s ship fic, i spend half of it with those two tap-dancing around each other. one fic of mine is 20 pages instead of 10 because jack and sam refused to talk to each other like i wanted them to.

It's hard to write what i'd call a believable sam/jack expression scene simply because, in 8 years, we have yet to see one so there is no guideline. And with no guideline, the author has to make things up.

it was a fun fic and i should go check out more of yours